Trying to forgive...

[noblesteed]

Hi all this is my first post on here. I am really struggling to come to terms with my husband's affair. He is still with me, refused to leave and wants to work it all out but I am struggling and have few people to talk to as obviously I don't want people to find out. I jsut want some advice from anyone who has been there and maybe a reassurance that I will recover.
We've been married 3 years but together 10. Both of us are well paid professionals. Have a rising 3 year-old and a 1 year old. Had a traumatic birth with the first and suffered PND/PTSD for which I recieved counselling. Husband very traumatised too and became ill. He has a very stressful job and has been bullied by his boss. He had bowel problems and weight loss and tests for bowel cancer all through my pregnancy with youngest child, turns out the docs think it was stress related IBS. All to do with work and first-born being difficult. My family are not supportive so he had to help me through it all pretty much alone. We got on well though he was very stressed with work and distant at times. After second child was born it was such a magical birth and he was such an easy baby I felt totally calm and healed and ready to get back to 'normal'. Sadly husband didn't, he bacame more and more angry, abusive, distant, anxious etc. Not sleeping, getting more stressed with work as the boss bullied him about his paternity leave. He was on the iphone a lot, he said talking about work. I noticed strange things - scratches on his back, him going off earier than his normal pub night out and the same name commenting on his facebook. Honestly I was SCARED to confront him as he was so nasty, he had a total personality change. ANyway one day I noticed he'd left his fb on the PC so I hid it then read his messages when he was out. OMG. 6 months' worth of sexually explicit conversation with The facebook Suspect, sexual fantasies, photos of each other's bits. Starting while I was up in the night in the other room breastfeeding our baby son. I called him and he rushed home and confessed everything. He had been nipping round her house for a quickie before the pub!!!! She is proper little scrubber, slutty photos of herself on her fb profile. SHe's a complete loser and works with him in a non-skilled position. Anyway this is totally sinister - it turns out she is some sort of amateur hypnotist... And the affair just 'happened'... He is SUCH an idiot. I threw him out 3 times but he wouldn't leave, he hates her, he beat himself up, smashed his phone, cried etc etc. THis was 3 months ago. He's having therapy twice a week and we are seeing Relate. The only reason he is still in my house is because he is the father of my children and they love him. I still love him but I hate what he has done. I also feel sorry for him. SInce I found out he's reverted back to being the man I love and married. But I keep getting flashbacks of the affair and thinking the most diabolical hateful thoughts about her. She knew he was married with 2 young children. How can women do this to other women? I don't sleep well and I feel like this has robbed me of a time that should be happy with 2 beautiful gorgeous young children. Poor things don't deserve any of this.

You need to stop being angry with her: she never promised any loyalty to you, it was your husband who did that and decided to betray you of his own free will.

You cannot forgive just because you think you need to. Most people find this kind of vile behaviour impossible to get over, so you are not unique in this. His apparent reaction to stress is to get angry and abuse you but this isn't a reason, it's an excuse.

Sorry you're married to such a selfish lying shit. Seems like you blame everyone and anything for his lousy behaviour except him. Yourself, the job, various illnesses and of course the 'slutty hypnotist'. He's done a real number on you.

Finding out you've been lied to and betrayed is a horrible thing and you shouldn't expect to just get over it without some very big compromises and adjustments to your values. That you have DCs doesn't really change the fundamental problem.

Do confide in someone IRL. I know how tempting it is to think you can somehow fix all this before anyone notices but, all the time you keep his grubby secret, your self - respect will go down and your self - esteem with it.

Have you tried counselling might be worth a shot. But HE knew he was married and had kids so not entirely her fault seeing as it takes 2 to tango.

What really stands out to me from your post, apart from the obvious lying and cheating, was that he refused to leave. I think if you are to have any chance of getting back on track, he needs to be willing to do whatever you feel he needs to, to help you feel better. If what you need is space from him, he should damned well be giving you that. It sounds like in his mind it is all still about him.

Do you actually want to forgive him?

According to him, he fucked her because:

1. He was 'stressed'
2. His boss is a bully
3. She HYPNOTISED him

He did it because he wanted to. He is now sorry that he's been found out. You can choose to stay if you want to, but he doesn't get to choose for you.

He betrayed you. She didn't. Direct some of the anger/hatred you feel towards her to him instead.

He is crying for himself. He feels shame for himself and fears people finding out what he did.

She did not hypnotise him.

I have heard some rubbish in my time, but hypnotising him?! Really??

I agree, the fact that he won't leave and is now 'love bombing/hoovering' is very telling. Soon you will be expected to STFU and get over it.

She didn't hypnotise him, that is total and utter bollocks. I've trained in hypnotism and that just isn't possible. Anyway, how did he come to be in a position to be hypnotised in the first place.

All these amateur dramatic acts - hating her, beating himself up, smashing his phone - again, all high drama designed to get you to believe his lies

And yes, she definitely should have known better (and may be an awful person) but it was your husband who betrayed you. Try to not fixate on her- I understand it may feel easier than completely blaming him but you need to be honest with yourself

We have been seeing a relate counsellor every week since I found out (3 months ago). She thinks he has had a nervous breakdown/midlife crisis etc and has used the sex and explicit conversations with his bitch as some kind of opiate. She thinks we have a good chance of getting through this. Like I said, he's back to his old self, the man I fell in love with. He was a lovely man, everybody warmed to him and he was so funny, thoughtful, kind and loving. Except he's not that man any more, because I know what he has done and the nasty things he said about me to make her think he wasn't happily married. I made him tell his mum to her face. She is appalled, so is his sister - who is single after her son's father cheated on her. My husband knows how hurt his own sister was and how devastated her sons were yet that didn't stop him cheating on his own family. Our baby was only 5 months old when this started.
He doesn't love this woman. He has no feelings for her now. She never tried to contact him or even see if he was ok. She emailed me to say she was sorry and she never meant this to happen and she wouldn't be in touch with him again. I told her she could have him but like I said, he never went to her.
He would have left if I had kicked him out properly. HE did leave for a few hours but he came back. I could have taken the kids and gone to stay with friends. He knows I have a further 3 months during which I can legally file for divorce for adultery and he knows I have considered it. He also knows I have family overseas who would be more than happy for me to join them with my sons to start a new life for ourselves. I have a good job and I can easily earn enough to support myself and my sons without any help from him. The reason I didn't make him leave was because my sister persuaded me that I needed to talk to him before I kicked him out - she advised me this after her own terrible breakup. SO we talked and I decided to try and forgive him for the sake of my children. Make no mistake, if we didn't have the kids I would have been out of there as soon as I found out.
I was hoping that someone might read this who has been through the same thing and whether people do manage to stay together or if it's really just the end that I am prolonging by being too emotionally dependent on him! I have a few good friends I can talk to but they haven't been through it so they don't really understand.

It sounds like you have all the ingredients to make it work, but ultimately it is down to what you want in your heart of hearts, and no one but you can say if it is...

OP I am a qualified Hypnotherapist. I am extremely well trained and skilled at my job.
I could not hypnotise a man against his will to have sex with me.
It is not possible to do this.
I know how trance works and this woman did not hypnotise your husband to have an affair with her.
He is full of shit.

Definitely stop blaming her and excusing him. He knew exactly what he was doing, cheating takes planning and a lot of deceipt.

Someone here recommended chumppasy.com to me and it has been a life saviour.

I'm totally over my cheating wife, her lies and rubbish.

Your husband sounds like a douche bag.

OP I've never been the OW, and I have been where you are now. You need to stop using the misogynistic language to describe her and start seeing this as a choice he made.

Read the replies. None are calling her names. He did this to you, not her.

She's not "his bitch". Nor is she a "scrubber" a "loser" or "slutty".

And he is not a mere "idiot". He is a nasty, selfish, deceitful, manipulative, calculating liar. And the sooner you start to see this, the better.

He is not a weak defenceless man who was tempted away from his family and on to the rocks by a siren's song. He is a man who, like so many others, fancied another woman, saw an opportunity and took it. He flattered her, lied to her and deceived her, whilst doing the same to you. She was the fool. He knew exactly what he was doing. Don't let him continue to make a cool of you by believing his continuing lies and deceit.

Of course he told you he doesn't love her. He probably told her that he did.

Vile, nasty piece of work. Him, that is, not her.

Just read your last post in more detail.

I didn't even consider working through it. I'm worth more than that.

My children are fine. They are angry with him for having an affair and breaking up the family. They are not angry with me for kicking him out.

I want them to know we are worth more than that.

I don't think you should try to forgive him 'for the sake of the children'. It should be for yourself. You say if it wasn't for your little ones you'd have been out of there immediately. That should be your guide., especially as it seems you won't struggle financially and can move abroad for a fresh start. He sounds weak and morally wobbly to say the least., blaming the wicked OW for seducing him against his will (poor little chap!) Please try not to dwell on her, she could have been anyone who was willing to play the game with him. Regarding his model behaviour now, well he would wouldn't he? He has everything to lose. It isn't really a case of forgiving. He did it, it happened through his own choice, and it can't be undone or just swept under the carpet, the fact remains. I'm afraid by now I'd have lost all respect for him.

Op he made a choice to sleep with this 'slutty scrubber'....he has only stopped because you caught him.

She has no loyalties to you ....however your Dh should have.

You have been through a really tough time by the sound of it....however don't let him blame his truly disgusting behaviour on past health worries etc.

I'm afraid I'd be inclined to describe him as the slutty scrubber....in a suit.

Sorry can't help further re whether it could work.

I called time after finding out far far less sinister stuff than you have.

That was enough for me.

Don't let your standards and expectations wain ever Op.

Good luck whatever you decide.

You will never be able to forgive until he is completely honest with you. As it stands at the moment he wants you to forgive him while he does the bare minimum to get past this.

I think you need to be honest with yourself about what you need to move forward. Perhaps making a list and bringing it up in your next counselling session.

For example

1. He needs to be completely open and honest with you.
2. He needs to leave the family home to give you space to think about what you want to do.

Yeah, actually I called time with far less 'evidence' than this, too.

In fact, I didn't even find out about tbe OW until after I'd kicked him out.

I always say I kicked him out on discovering the affair, but that's just because it's easier. But the affair came out after.

Oh and you don't have to come to terms with his affair. You can tell him to fuck off.

I am totally with FolkGirl, tell him to FO. You need to value yourself. The pain you feel is natural but do you really want to be with someone who cares so little for you or your children.

The pain will go but if you stay with him the memories won't.

Also I spelt it wrong earlier, the site is www.chumplady.com, a personal favourite article of mine is this:
chumplady.com/2014/04/why-you-cant-nice-people-out-of-affairs/

You are on a hiding to nothing until he takes total responsibility for the affair and stops making pathetic excuses.
And he will do it again unless he addresses his own issues, the ones that make him feel entitled to have an affair, and stops blaming you, work, stress, new parenthood, the slutty OW with her hypnotic gaze.
None of this is likely to happen when the consequences for him are no more than a bit of tantrumming, leaving the house for a few hours, and discussing the issues with a (probably undertrained) relate councillor who is encouraging you to stick it out.
Don't tell me you are still doing his washing/feeding him/doing all the childcare/housework/sleeping with him.

See he is having all this counselling now and trying to work out why he did it, reading all these psychology books and trying to find out what it was that caused him to allow himself to be such a twat... Everyone who knows what he has done and knows him thinks he has gone insane. He's not at work now due to stress. So he's doing all the household stuff and I am working part time. He keeps buying me stuff and grovelling and telling me how sorry he is.
But like people say. Yes he has everything to lose. Of course he is going to try and patch it up.
Doesn't make anything better though. I need to know if this nightmare will get better. It would be easier to ditch him.

Btw the reason I call her a bitch is because she hounded and hounded him for months. threw herself at him. I read all their correspondence - took me 2 days and nights to read.

I could throw myself at a married man, too. if I wanted to.

But it would be his choice to catch me.

She wouldn't have continued to throw herself at him unless she had reason to believe he wanted her to do so.

Unless you think he just took advantage of her and used her. Does that really make it any better?