Help me work this out.

[Uptonoone]

I have been with my dh since college. We are now mid 30s and have 3dc. We have shared so many life experiences together and have only slept with each other. On the surface he is kind, generous, hard working and loving. We are often complimented on what a great couple we are.
However, I am feeling quite low at the moment. My dh has lied off and on throughout our relationship. When we younger the lies weren't so significant, but as life has progressed the lies have got more significant. He has lied about money, loans etc. Often there was no need for the lies, but now I recognise that this was just his pattern of behaviour.
We had dc3 18 months ago. I don't have much family support except dh and so it was quite tough. When dc was a few weeks old, dh worked away for 2 weeks abroad. We spoke most days and I struggled alone with breastfeeding etc and 3 children. I subsequently found out a month or so after his return, he booked a naked massage whilst away. He also looked the girl up online after the massage and basically 'stalked' her on line for a bit (from a distance). He also looked at porn, (he said he wouldn't) and Google stalked young girls from his office. All this happened in the first few months of dc3.
I felt very low after this came out (I discovered it all by chNce on his phone), but it was the lies and omissions that hurt. I was low with 3dc to manage and my dh was getting his thrills elsewhere.
He promised he would change and be honest. Gave me access to his phone ( previously it had passcodes), and we started to rebuild trust and pick up what remained of my self esteem.

I then found out that he had deleted messages between him and female colleagues at work, so they wouldn't appear on his phone if I checked. These weren't necessarily sexual, but familiar and friendly chats which perhaps should be avoided if he was trying to rebuild trust. The kind of emails that you would roll your eyes at, but not get to upset at. However, it was the fact he was deleting them so I didn't see I found upsetting, rather than the content.
So fast forward to now, I feel crap. I love him , but feel I am alwYs awaiting the next lie. I feel low because he obviously fancies and admires other women who are early 20s.

He wants to make it up to me and promises to be open and honest, but I feel stuck and real don't know if it is me or him. He is my only relationship, so is this normal?

I think he's been a bit of a prat, but nothing too bad this time around.

He's behaved badly in the past and he's trying to make that up to you and it sounds to me like you were happy with the steps that he's taken.

I reckon he was just being over cautious when he deleted the recent messages and was worried you might read something in to it that wasn't there.

I would say to him that he needs to think carefully about what he says in his messages. It's easy for someone from work to read them too, and he should remain professional at all times. Also, it's possible that these women will read something into them that isn't there and he could find himself with real difficulties there.

As a separate issue, I think you need to let go of your worries about his admiring and fancying 20 year old women as you put it. That's just biological, all straight men fancy 20 year old girls. It's nothing to do with you and it doesn't reflect on you. You'll make yourself very miserable over nothing if you get worked up about that.

I wish you both happiness.

He has acted disgracefully throughout.

No, this is not normal at all for relationships and I think he has been dishonest throughout your marriage. After all he has done outside your relationship can you ever really trust him again?.

You may well love him perhaps even after all he has done but I think you deserve more from a marriage. I also think you love him far more than he loves you, let alone actually respect you. A respectful man would not have done these behaviours which say an awful lot more about him than it ever would of you. It is NOT your fault he has acted as he has done.

If there is no trust there is no relationship to speak of anyway. I would consider your options going forward and seek your own legal advice in the event you did decide to separate from him.

attilia simple question, but what do you think he has done which is bad. I can't see what us right and wrong anymore, I only know how I feel, which is quite low.

You deserve better than this! His behaviour is awful and especially so considering you had just had a baby.

He went behind your back seeking sexual gratification and attention from other women and that's only the ones you know about.

You seem to just be accepting of the situation as he has apologised blah blah.

I think he has eroded your trust and rocked your world. Please remember that you deserve respect from any relationship you're in.

What he's done that is bad is repeatedly lie. He lies about what he's done and he even lies about being open and rebuilding trust. Lying to someone shows no respect for them whatsoever. As you say, you are now constantly on edge waiting for the next nasty surprise and even if he's telling the truth, you won't believe it. You found out about the naked massage and the stalking behaviour... you must always be wondering what's been going on that you haven't found out about. You're clearly confused and your self esteem sounds very low indeed. That is a highly stressful and abnormal way to live and why mistrust is the death of most relationships.

I also think you deserve better.

When I explain how I feel he understands, but his defence is that in all other areas he is a good dh and that should count for something.
I used to be confident, but now I feel behind my back he must be looking at other women, I don't know even now if I have the truth and will never ever be sure.
But I do love him and as I said he is kind and thoughtful. I find it so difficult to separate who he is.

Sorry but the 'in all other areas' argument is no argument at all. Harold Shipman 'in all other areas' was a great GP... he just killed quite a lot of his patients.

It's not a numbers game. Everyone has different tolerances but most self-respecting people would regard his attitude as unforgiveable. And look at the effect. You've no confidence, no trust and you're confused and upset enough to be asking 'is this normal?' when it clearly isn't. In a normal, healthy relationship with someone who genuinely loved you'd feel like a better version of yourself... not a shadow of your former self.

I'm not going to say 'LTB' because you sound shell-shocked already, but I think this guy has had a free ride so far and is utterly taking the piss. There are no consequences to his behaviour and he has no motivation to change. If you stay with him and let all this go yet again, your life is going to be even more miserable than it already is. Stop being so passive, severely clip his wings and get on his case 24/7 and you might restore some of your self-respect.

cogito I know I sound as thick as shit (I'm not) but what do you mean he has had a free ride.
This is where I get stuck. I can't see the wood for the trees anymore and I have no relationship experience as this is my only one. Things came to such a head after I discovered his behaviour after dc3. Although he had lied before I was so shocked and hurt he could treat me like that when our baby was only weeks old. I had a very traumatic birth, dc3 was pretty much born dead and had to be worked on. I had a pph and felt awful. I just can't seem to get past that he would treat me so poorly just weeks after going through that.