Husband would rather pick a fight with me than clean house

[TropicalHorse]

My husband has stormed off because I've just suggested this...
We've been married 2 years, together for 4 and have a 1yo dd. He's a man-child but an introspective, articulate one who has promised over and over again to share the load more. He recognizes that the division of labour in our home is unequal and he swears he wants to do something about it... He also gets cross if I "turn it into a feminist issue." (Which it is.)
But he is HAPPY to do more! He wants to. He claims.
Until it comes to getting off his arse and doing it! We have instituted a regular family meeting on Friday evening where we discuss the chores for the weekend - I do almost everything during the week but he does cook and wash up (badly). But instead of just cracking on with the list this morning he wants to have a woe-is-me discussion about how he feels, complete with cups of tea and expecting my sympathy. I tried to gently get him back on track with the jobs and he blows up, out of all proportion.
I have lost count of the number of times this has happened. Today I called him on it and he jumped in his car and drove off. Childishly, I have locked the gates across our driveway.
I am anxious he will go to the pub. He's a recovering alcoholic.
Shit.

Is he ok? Mentally, I mean. Perhaps the discussion this morning was about something else altogether? Perhaps it was just a distraction from the chores? I'm sure he is totally in denial about needing a distraction from the chores. It's hard because you are being practical and he is being emotional.

I just put my DH in charge of the living room at the weekend. He does it in his own time, in his own way. I don't mention it at all. It's his job. Maybe that sort of approach would be better?

Pfft. He's a grown man. His partner should not have to come up with gentle ways to get him to do something he's already promised to do in order to provide the perfect psychological environment for him to just get on with it.

It's his decision to do something. It's his decision not to do something. It's his decision to go to the pub.

Getting involved with a man-child is a full time job. Physically and emotionally.

Was the woe is me discussion specifically about a few chores or was he trying to broaden it to other woes in an attempt to guilt-trip you into getting his own way? I think it is unhelpful to reduce this kind of behaviour down to non-terms like 'manchild'. It's unpleasant, unhelpful and selfish behaviour. Storming off shows no respect for the other person and, like other blocking, sulking and other intimidating tactics, it's manipulative because you're going to think twice how to broach the subject in future for fear of getting the same reaction. You're already talking in terms of 'gently' steering him etc.

Attention-seeking behaviour should never be rewarded with attention. Is ending up at the pub something he uses as a threat? Any sense of 'look what you're making me do' ? Unfortunately I have a very, very poor opinion of alcoholics, whether they claim to be recovering or not.

Has he ever done any housework in the 4yrs you've been together?
What is he contributing?
Try turning the conversation around - explain to him how he's making you feel with his actions and lack of housework.

As per cog above. Is he using your fear of him drinking as his way of getting you to shut up? Storming off to put you in your place.

It's just laziness. He no doubt feels as he works ft he is entitled to enjoy his weekend whilst you run around tending to his mess.

I hope when he returned you returned the favour. A night in the pub whilst he looks after the children singlehandedly. If you didn't i suggest you try it today. He gets to run off why don't you?

Just realised you posted at 3am, was he still not back? Maybe go away yourself next weekend. I would struggle to live with someone like this. Self centred, needs stroking to do jobs. It's not normal and very unattractive. The fact you say he is a man-child, it's such an unattractive term. Makes me think of snotty noses, soggy sleeves, dirty knees and whining - not someone I'd choose to share my life with!

Hi, thanks for the replies everyone. I should have mentioned that I'm not in the UK, so it wasn't 3am when I first posted!! Would have been much more dramatic than that if he was still out at 3am!
He came back 30min later and we've had a big talk. Again. He's taken dd out for the afternoon and I am resisting the urge to clean up and trying to relax and enjoy the peace. He didn't go to the pub, claims he didn't even think of it and he "doesn't do that anymore" which I suppose is good. He never threatens or blames me with or for his drinking. It's just something that I know he has turned to in the past in times of stress or conflict.
As is our usual pattern, I cried and told him how bad it makes me feel and he apologised and promised things will be better, that he loves what we have, that he can't believe his luck...
I really don't know if he's manipulating me or if he's really so clueless. The trouble is, we've been here before. I probably need to issue an ultimatum, don't I?

I don't think you need an ultimatum. However, if it's a 'pattern' that he is unreasonable/selfish, you cry, tell him he's made you feel bad, he apologises.... but then goes ahead and does exactly the same thing again, then you need a different paradigm.

If you're crying, you're saying 'you've got to me' and, as I said earlier, the one thing you do not reward attention-seeking behaviour with is attention. Similarly, don't let a bully know that they have succeeded in upsetting you. Whatever they say to the contrary, they get a kick out of it.

It wasn't until I married my second husband in 2004 (when I was 30), that I realised you can't change people. The only person you can really change is oneself.

My late first husband, was congenitally messy and so is my current husband. I've always been a bit argument averse (I tend to write letters rather than row), but my first husband's untidiness and unwillingness to tidy drove me to distraction. I'm not the most organised person, but having children tends to force one to to tidy up, even if its only after a rampaging two year old! Nevertheless, I often silently became very frustrated at my first husband's apparent complete unwillingness to shove pots into dishwasher stick a toilet brush down the loo once in a while.

It was only after a few years into my second marriage that, when faced with an even messier partner, it struck me that at 42 (his age at the time) he wasn't likely to change then, or ever. I knew he was untidy before I met him. He does many other things as a husband and a dad, and I would rather just have a happy life. It really helped me when I got beyond a certain stage in my life and thought "do the tea plates left in his office really matter? Does the cup left next to a sofa mean that my day will be ruined?" I came to the conclusion that it was far more challenging to try and get him to change a lifetime of habits than to just pick them up. It isn't about me being a drudge or following him around with a dustpan and brush, it is just about having peace and harmony.

The minute one tries to change another person, they are plonked on road leading to at best disappointment, and at worst acrimonious situations. I have to recognise that I have a list as long as the Bayeux Tapestry of annoying habits that, in a perfect world, my husband my like to change.

Forcing someone to fit into someone else's structure, however justified that person might feel in wishing to enforce rules might work temporarily, but after the initial urge to please has gone and the person has slipped back into their usual habits, there is likely to follow a sense of dismay from the person wanting the change, followed by resentment, and then often followed by arguments. And arguments are the wrecking ball of relationships, knocking great big chunks off that can only be glued back on - undermining the foundation of the relationship and creating a terrible feedback loop of more despond and more acrimony.

I was stuck in a similar pattern with DH. I would ask/remind him to do his bits repeatedly, the resentment would build, big arguement, tears, apologies, me coming up with a new solution, big effort from him, then slip back to him doing next to nothing and my resentment building again. We split tasks, did set rotas, flexi-rotas, he cherry picked his jobs, I left notes. Nothing worked for very long.

A wise woman, and fellow MNer that I know in RL, told me it sounded like he was playing games, consciously or not. His game was to try to get away with doing as little as possible, for as long as possible. She suggested I call him on it and somewhat disengage. So I did. I told him I didn't think he meant to, but he was playing some kind of game and I'd had enough of it. I'd also had enough of being the one to "fix" things, so he could come up with a solution, however he wanted to do it, so long as it worked. I also stopped doing laundy for him. If he pulled his weight, I'd have time free to wash clothes so I did some of his, if not, he ran out of pants.

It's worked, for the most part. He occasionally slacks off, but I just tell him almost straight away. No asking/reminding/nagging. I just hug him and say "Oi, you're slacking!" and leave it up to him. If the "solution" isn't working, then it's down to him. I don't even think about the jobs he's laid claim to, which is one less job for me.

Do you think he might be playing games, whether he realises it or not?

Like a lot of these friction points, the 'real problem' is not someone failing to pick up a tea-cup or taking out the bins. It's not annoying habits or wanting perfect worlds either. The real problem is a couple that cannot have a simple discussion without it descending into tears and tantrums. Inability to work as a team over something incredibly trivial - even after they've agreed a way forward - is pretty serious. What happens when there's something important that they disagree about? Is he going to storm off every time?

Apparently DH doesn't see dirt he does, he can walk past a bin and see that it needs emptying but wants to see how long it takes before I empty it

There is no changing people, and it is not acceptable to scream lazy fucker with small people about - so we have employed a divide and conquer - he does all the washing up, that's his job (I fecking hate it), he moans and I ignore him.

I do the bits I enjoy, the cooking and washing.

Everything else I either decide to do - or state very clearly "you do it" - it doesn't tend to kick off an argument as I don't have any emotion in my voice or body language - I'm simply communicating what my plans are.

It helps that DH works from home, so if its messy it impacts him far more than me.

Just a thought - does he know how to do housework? This could be work avoidance purely because he feels stupid.

Come on MushroomSoup.... you're not serious?

He sounds like a pain in the ass, forget the Friday night discussions though and just get on with it, you can have a list but you choose a job, he does, and get on with it

Plus if he's not prepared to clean then perhaps he can cough up for a cleaner, ie not you

I hate housework - really. I would rather do anything than housework.

So I do a bit each night as I am waiting for stuff in the kitchen. And a bit in the bathroom.

I use splosh products so there is a spray in the kitchen and bathroom at all times and just do surfaces as and when to keep it clean.

For a weekend clean though - we decide tasks we will do and then allocate between say 10 and 1 to clean through. Then we have a nice lunch. And then it's all done until next time.

If he stormed out I'd tell him in no uncertain terms to grow the fuck up.

Mushroom soup - wtaf?

I don't buy any bollocks about men not seeing dirt or knowing how to clean/tidy. It's a choice.

My ex was a messy dirty pig.

After we split but before we told PIL, I finally cracked and made a comment about him to SFIL. Who laughed and said "he's always been like this, you knew what he was like when you met him".

And I said: no. Because of LDR I never saw him spontaneously in the early days. The house was tidy, the sheets clean. He damn well knew and could maintain the standard required to GET a girlfriend.

ditto cabrinha !

He sounds just amaaaazing and you must have such a great time being in a relationship with him...

Ultimatum sounds good, just make sure you are prepared to follow it through. He doesn't want to spread the load more evenly, clearly. He just likes to talk about it. Different Thing Altogether.

Good luck.

lol I'm serious. I work with kids and this is a tactic used frequently to avoid looking stupid.

If he doesn't know what products/cloths/gadgets to use he'll avoid it. We all learned by watching our mums parents and, if he's been the little prince at home, he won't have been made to learn.

I don't think it's a good reason by the way. If he doesn't know, and won't learn, it's a LTB from me!