BIL is a cocklodger, isn't he?

[LukeLovesKate]

NC as this is pretty outting.

DSis and I had a long phonecall last night as she is very unhappy at the moment, the depth of which I had no idea. I'm really shocked and just want to check with the MN jury.

A little backstory: DSis has a DS (4) from her first marriage. Her exh was pretty abusive and nasty and DSis became depressed and unhappy. After she left him, she has moved house about five times in three years, and has had about five "serious" relationships (by this I mean she introduced them all to her DS and has moved in with two of them) all of which have been abusive in different ways.

As much as I feel like a bitch for saying it, DSis is not a good judge of character and tends to jump into relationships with both feet. She met her current DP about a year ago, and moved into his place the other side of the country, which she instantly hated. It was a renovation project that he didn't really have the money to renovate and was freezing, lonely and miserable for her.

Despite this, he seemed like a kind bloke who was good with DNephew and who wanted to make a home and family with DSis.

Because Dsis was so unhappy, they put a tenant in BIL's house and moved back here to her home town together. DSis is currently four months pregnant.

From all outward appearances, they seemed to be happy. However, last night, DSis phoned me and it all came spilling out.

BIL works part time in a profession he enjoys, but really wants to run his own business. He has a premises that he pays rent on and buys equipment regularly, plus has turned down a well paid full time job because he wants to devote time to building this business up.

DSis does run her own business and is generally pretty successful. However, it went quiet last week and she didn't earn very much. So much so that she went overdrawn and had no money to buy food.

DM bought her some essentials, but they have been on beans on toast all week.

DSis later found out that BIL had £180 in his account, which he was using to buy some equipment for his business. This piece of equipment is a complete frivolity, just something he's "always wanted", but would not really increase his earning potential. DSis told me that although the business has been open for months, he rarely has clients and has never broken even.

Even worse is that BIL contributes nothing to the household AT ALL. He keeps everything he earns. DSis pays rent, bills and food and frequently struggles to do so.

When DSis found out about the money in his account she confronted him and he said he "needed to concentrate on his business first" and that it wouldn't hurt them to live on beans for a week until she started earning again.

DSis told me that even when they were in his house, she paid for everything. It's not only that he doesn't want to support her, he doesn't even want to contribute. DSis doesn't know how much he earns or where it goes.

Am I wrong in thinking this is the behaviour of a cocklodger?

I don't want this to be true, my DSis has been so let down in the past. I was really hoping this guy would actually be a normal bloke.

Yes, buy her some big boots!

"DSis does run her own business and is generally pretty successful."

I would argue that a business that suffers a quiet week and leaves not a penny in reserve cannot be considered "successful". That's barely breaking even at best.

However that has sweet FA to do with the selfish arsehole your DSis seems to have saddled herself with.

If they've never discussed her supporting his business plans by her paying all of their living expenses then yes, he is indeed a cynical, cocklodging user.

I would be telling her in words of one syllable the absolute lunacy of introducing a series of new "partners" to her children. She's been moving in with men she hardly knows FFS!

Yep, another wrong'un I'm sorry.

I suppose you're right, Bitter. She doesn't really have any savings or anything, probably because she's been from pillar to post in the past few years.

She gets nothing in the way of child support from her exh either and the way this is going I can't see that she will get much from this one either.

I told her last night that they need to sit down and work out their finances together. When she has this baby she will be off work for a good few weeks at least. Apparently when she has raised this with him he has just said they'll deal with that when they come to it.

She feels like she is beating her head against a brick wall with him as he is genuinely prepared to live in squalor in order to build this business up. If she brings up any money worries he suggests they move out to the middle of nowhere (uprooting her poor DS AGAIN and moving him out of the school he has just started) or get a caravan and live in that. If she's not prepared to do that, then it's all her fault they are broke.

BIL and DH work in similar fields and DH often goes to BIL's premises to help him move stuff etc and recently he said that BIL has started to try and slag DSis off to him, particularly her parenting of DNephew. BIL has no kids of his own, but has all sorts of ideas about DSis needing to be harder with him. For example he thinks DNephew should not be getting out of bed until 8am and should not be allowed to leave his room until that time instead of coming through and getting into bed with DSis when he wakes early in the morning. DNephew is 4 and I don't even think he can tell the time yet.

It seems to me that at the very least they have both been far too hasty here in moving in together and having a baby together.

Her poor child. I don't feel sorry for your sis. She is stupid.

Your DSis need to leave and live on her own for a few years, minimum, to get her head and finances straight. So sad that she is pregnant as it's going to be so hard on her. Could she go stay with your Mum for a while?

You have a point, expat. My poor DNephew went to five different nurseries and I'm so worried he will be moving schools a lot too. She can't carry on like this, it really is stupid.

She is an adult. Leave her to it, because there is really nothing else to can do.

I'm sure DM would love to have her, Random but I think her house is too small for the two little ones. My SD is in poor health and I doubt it would be fair on him really.

I completely agree that she needs to be on her own for a while.

This is going to sound a bit weird, but I met my DH just after she had come out of a long term relationship that she had thought was "the one". I'd been single for 10 years and I think it was a bit of a shock to DSis when I got engaged, and I think she was a bit jealous.

She got engaged to her exh after only 3 months, got pregnant and arranged her wedding so that it was before mine, in the same hotel we had booked and everything. I feel like she was desperately wanting what I had. Their marriage lasted less than a year.

She obviously really wants a happy family unit, but just can't meet the right man and can't tell until it's far too late. The last bloke she moved in with before this one used to take parts out of the boiler before he went to work so she couldn't use the heating without his permission!

Her problem isn't that she can't meet the right man, it's that she can't recognise the unsuitable ones for what they are. By the time she realises they're unsuitable she's already moved her child in with them. And now she's pregnant by this one.

But it sounds like she's acknowledged that this isn't working and isn't likely to. That's a step in the right direction but unfortunately we can't live other people's lives for them. But only help clear up the shite when it hits the fan if we are able

I'm not convinced about this building a business up, he's just living in a fantasy land paid for by your sis. He 'rarely has clients and has never broken even'. That's not a business! It's just an indulgence. It's mind-boggling that he turned down full time work for that.

He doesn't sound like he should be parenting a 4 year old, or that he wants to.

Try and get her to understand that emotional abuse is an assault on the self-esteem and until she takes a break from men and invests time, research, self-love in to herself, she'll never find a good man.

You say she's not a good judge of character, but I bet she knew or half-knew in her gut that these guys weren't good but she felt she couldn't be with anybody better. I used to have that mindset. Luckily I have a totally different one now. It is possible to change and to believe that you deserve a good man, and to be prepared to wait for one because you're happy on your own.

Buy her a few books about self-esteem, not losing yourself in a relationship etc

Harsh to label her 'stupid' when she's already been in an abusive relationship and her self-esteem is clearly not healthy.

It's pretty stupid not to understand the difference between healthy self-esteem and intelligence. They aren't the same. Intelligent women can function as though they were confident and extrovert but secretly feel too worthless to attract a good man.

It's not a business, it's a hobby and an expensive one by the sounds of it.

Your sis moves too fast, but you know that. If you reminded her that it took you 10 years of singledom before you found dh, would it help her a bit?

I doubt there's much you can do though, except help her pick up the pieces when she's let down again.

Thank you, Grapefruit. That sounds like exactly what she needs to do, and you have put it much better than I ever could. Do you know of some books I could recommend to her?

Twinklestein that's exactly what I said to her yesterday. Not a business, an indulgence. I can't imagine DH or anyone else I know putting a purchase of any sort before putting food on the table, especially where there's a young child and a pregnant woman involved. I was shocked.

If she can't meet the right man she's better off staying single until she can build up her confidence and self esteem. She can be a perfectly good parent without the 'help' of a cocklodger. If he's not prepared to help her now, what's he going to be like 6 months down the line?

I'd be very worried about your nephew. Her behaviour is very unsettling for him, poor lad

LukeLovesKate, I read Anne Dickson's "a woman in your own right" and it was on the surface a book about assertiveness but obviously how we handle situations depends on how healthy our self-esteem is. She may recognise the types. It's about women, or rather for women but I recognised some of the types and tehy were men in my life, not women. So it was useful to me.

Without telling her what you're doing try to open up her circle a bit, try to nudge her out of her comfort zone. doing new things makes people feel a bit braver.

and if she opens up to you again, say that you know how hard it is but that you want her to leave. Rather than 'you have to leave him NOW!" as obviously that just feels like one more person telling you what to do.

I remained friends with the people who seemed to know instinctively that the wrong thing to do would be to instruct me what to do next. SOme people were peddling hard behind the scenes though to remind me that I had once been very good company, I had once been very good humoured, I had once emigrated to a new country with a backpack and £300 ykwim? just kind of subtly reinforcing my worth. "you were always very good at cooking!". "you know german don't you, what does this mean?". Think about how to subtly raise her self-esteem.

She's lucky to have you. Because she has you, she'll probably emerge from this one day.

I felt overwhelmed by people saying 'he's an asshole leave him' because I just thought that people would think I was a loser for being single and I thought, it's all very well for you to talk about finding somebody better but that would never happen to me. With him, I thought, "well at least I appear normal, if I leave, everybody will know I'm a loser".

So maybe you could watch programmes that portray single women in a positive light. (can't think of any off hand )

Sounds like a car crash. Sorry but your sister is no angel either. She needs to hear some home truths about who she gets involved with and how that might impact on her son. It's not just about her!

He and the whole situation sound like a nightmare.
Your dsis really needs to stop latching onto losers, harsh but true.

What an absolute arsehole to withhold money for decent food, not only from a small child but also from the woman who's growing his child. I wouldn't forgive him for that.

I'm not sure if there's a lot you can do but be supportive. That said, she did tell you all of this so maybe she's testing the water and she want's rid of him. For her sake and her Dc, I hope so.

It's not a business, it's a hobby and an expensive one by the sounds of it.

Tbh I think you could say that about both of their businesses.

You say your DSis has a successful business, but if you has no savings and no money as pp have said then if really isn't that successful.

In the case of their businesses they do sound as bad as each other.

With regards to the relationship I think you DSis needs to leave and learn to be on her own and provide some stability to her DC rather than moving them from pillar up post all of the time.

I think all you should advise her is to protect herself and DS financially. She's in a vulnerable position in that regard - due to poor judgement as well as bad luck, let's be honest - and they both sound as irresponsible as each other in their own various ways. If the worst he is saying about her is a moan that the child gets out of bed too early, that's hardly a signpost for abuse. If she doesn't tackle him on the lack of financial contribution and he doesn't volunteer then there's not much you can do about it.

You won't be able to fix this so tell her that you'll support whatever she decides to do. Be encouraging but keep the responsibility where it properly lies.