Is he EA? Signs someone is in a EA relationship

[KikiShack]

I'll try and keep this short. It's not really my business, I'm just wondering if MN has trained my radar, and if so if there's anything I can do to help. Probably not as not my business but still...

DP has a best friend, I'll call him Dan. He's a lovely friendly guy, really funny, kind, good at impressions, into sport, always up for a laugh. The sort of guy who often gets followers iykwim.

He currently has a follower I'll call Adam.
Adam is a fairly normal, if slightly pathetic guy. The sort to do stupid things to impress the boys. The sort to probably make and laugh at sexist, homophobic and mildly racist jokes because they're 'banter'. So not the best specimen of a human, but nothing particularly standout evil either.

I'm wondering if Adam is EA. A couple of things make me think this:
Adam has a daughter who is ~5 who he never sees because his exgf won't let him. He's trying to take her to court to get access but has to save up £5kto do it, currently on £4k. Apparently the exgf gets legal aid which is SO unfair, even though she earns the same as him (I'd guess in the region of £20-£25k, poss as low as £18k but I doubt it). Legal aid in custody disputes means domestic abuse is involved??

Secondly Adam has a new girlfriend. They've been spending lots and lots of time together but only been together about 6 months, but Adam hasn't had time for anyone else for a bit. Dan hasn't particularly missed him DP saw Adam last night and apparently he was talking about how his new gf has gone a bit crazy recently. I don't think details were discussed, but she's being posessive, not giving him his freedom etc. On it's own I'd take this at face value, but paired with the legal aid / not allowed to see his daughter stuff I was wondering if this is typical EA stuff of him beginning to tighten the screws and his gf complaining, which he obv thinks is her being mad because he thinks he's in the right.

I can just imagine him being EA, he's a bit snivelling, a bit 'poor me'.

Dan is getting married in a few weeks so I'll see Adam again (only met him a couple of times) and also meet his gf. Just wondering - what are any signs I could look out for to see if their dynamic looks EA? I'm planning to try and talk to the gf, not in any way but just spend a bit of time with her and if I get the impression things aren't great do some very gentle suggestions to her about what a good relationship should be like. Just saying stuff assuming Adam is lovely to her so that if he isn't she'll maybe have a small jolt that things aren't right. Any tips what might be useful? Or should I absolutely 100% wind my neck in and leave well alone? Genuinely, I'm not really a busy body, just wondering what others would do. I will be looking after and bf my own DD so I won't get outrageously pissed and do something inappropriate thankfully!

It has the potential to go wrong, that is for sure.

I am a bit of a crusader against calling out/women not tolerating any form of abuse here on MN and in RL but I wouldn't get involved in this particular set of circumstances. Witnessing something, or someone directly asking you for advice is an entirely different matter though. I am glad MN has honed your rader, however.

EWF sometimes a fantastic resource but also sometimes a source of seemingly contagious overreaction. Like tinterweb in general I guess.

KIKI don't be too hard on yourself. You care. That's wonderful.

OP I'm sorry for calling you bonkers but I really was amazed that someone could look at the circumstances you described and make the leap to 'abusive'. I'm going to sound patronising or insulting or possibly both now but is everything ok with you generally? Your response to Adam was massively off and ott and your response to the replies you've had here seems similar. You'll never ever do anything about any concerns you have ever again?! You're shaking? I've seen some awful arse kickings on mumsnet but this thread here was not one of them.

Nice Ling
I'm perfectly functional and pretty normal. I was clearly joking when I said I'd never get involved in anything again.
I was pretty taken aback by some of the responses because I thought I'd phrased my question very clearly but some people seemed intent on ignoring large parts of my OP and jumping on specific bits to be rude to me, which I really can't see the point of.
I guess if I'm guilty of anything it's being a bit too eager to use my new found knowledge of EA to play layman's 'spot the abuse victim bingo'.
I am not aware of knowing anyone in an abusive relationship, yet I gather they're reasonably common, so when this guy went on and on about access and legal aid I remembered something I'd read on a couple of previous posts about DV and made a conclusion, which I thought got backed up by the use of the phrase 'crazy girlfriend' last night.
I came on to see whether my legal aid thing was correct and whether there are any signs of someone being in an EA relationship that I could look for at the wedding.
DP willbe on top table so I'll be stuck with my baby and a bunch of people I don't really know, probably quite bored, so I guess I was thinking about whether I could look out for anything tell tale out of a morbid curiosity.
I'm not used to criticism as I'm generally surrounded by people who love me, and TBH I'm normally quite good at getting things right. To be minorly leapt on for asking a question threw me. Shaking was a slight exaggeration.
Once more, legal aid thing (memory from prev posts) plus buzz phrase 'crazy gf' plus general impression of the guy = suspicions so I ASKED. I really don't think that's weird, but fine if you do.
Catastrophising because I'm at the end of ML and DD was having a long nap and I'm missing mental simulation, fine!! Bonkers nut job who needs help, not me thankfully.

If you are at a loose end, maybe there is a women's charity near where you live that you could help out with? It's good that you want to get out and help other women.

If your curiosity in this case is more academic than personal, there's really nothing wrong with that. :) In fact, it can be quite interesting to look at other people's behaviour analytically and give them the Miss Marple-like character assessment. (Not saying I do this... nooo... ) As I said earlier, beware of leaping to conclusions or going in full tilt with the blues and twos.... but that caveat aside there's a whole host of 'red flags' you can look out for.

• Unpleasant behaviour towards anyone they believe is inferior. Bullies are generally quite cowardly so they will suck up to those in charge but be very unpleasant to those they regard as unimportant.
• Nervous double-checking before the 'subject' answers a question. Can be quite subtle - a look seeking approval, for example - so you have to look carefully
• Being insulting, offensive, using horrible nicknames or making inappropriately personal remarks about their partner but passing them off as 'jokes'. The partner looking resigned to this.
• Jealousy

Lots really..

OP I think your intentions are laudable: the problem is you are being totally unrealistic about the way this is likely to play out...

Frankly if you were a close friend or relative I think you would horrify someone by proffering relationship counselling, let alone a casual acquaintance. Particularly at a public event. People are extremely sensitive about sharing stuff like this with their nearest and dearest so I don't know why you think it likely she will open up to you.

If you really want to help this woman, and you gather more real evidence that this guy is EA (at the moment all you have is speculation), get to know her slowly. If she gets to know you she may open up but at this point she would probably find your actions intrusive and you would open up a whole world of trouble with your friends.

Well look at that, my psychoanalysis based on very little turned out to be inaccurate! Who'd have thought hey? You're understandably upset that people who know very little about you have entertained themselves by jumping to unfair conclusions about you. In my defence I was bored.

I've been donating both cash and old baby clothes/toys to WA and a local refuge since reading about EA actually, so good suggestion sonja! Unfortunately with a 10mo I can't donate time, and I'll be back at work soon, but I will definitely keep donating what I can=stuff.

Haha touche Ling!! Good point well made...
For the final time though, I came here to ask what people who know a lot more than me thought. I really hope that never becomes something to get lynched for. But I do take your point, no idea if you did it like that deliberately or not but it worked.

This is the weirdest thread I've ever read on here, and that's saying something.

So, basically, you don't like this acquaintance of your DH's and you think it's perfectly reasonable - pretty much on the grounds of you not liking him alone - to 'educate' his girlfriend about why she shouldn't be with him.

Just...Wow.

You may want to have a quick check over of your own boundaries, OP, btw. Your poor DH if you think it's your place to be this over-involved in the lives of his acquaintances.

I would love to claim my initial comment was all a clever ruse but I'd be lying . It just occurred to me that I was judging you for judging someone else and we were both being hypocritical really. Good for you for donating to a refuge!

Wildrover I'm guessing you didn't get very good marks in comprehension at school. I've explained many many times where my idle suspicions came from. And I've very quickly taken on board mners' advice. Why oh why do I still deserve this kind of reply? Answer: I don't.

No, really, you do need to think about your boundaries if this is the kind of thing that you genuinely thought might be an ok thing to do.

What's a 'follower' , by the way?

If you are genuinely interested I will explain in detail what I meant by talking to her. I realise my OP is slightly sloppy on that point and lots of posters seem to have assumed I meant something a lot more meddlesome than I did.
I didn't bother going into loads of detail earlier as it felt like I'd be coming across super defensive, but I'm pretty sure I've got good boundaries so will describe what I meant to see if you agree if you want? Not trying to be goady, it just feels like this had taken on a life of its own and I feel the need to explain myself.
But if you're not that bothered I won't waste both of our time. This is also meant at face value, not trying to be confrontational.

Oh and by follower I mean Dan is charismatic and lots of people like being around him, he's a really nice guy and was a bit of a nerd at school so he has a soft spot for these slightly loser type guys and seems to accumulate them as they're really grateful to be friends with this lovely guy. It's almost like they have a mini crush on him. I've seen it happen a few times over the years I've known DP and his buddy (Dan)

You can explain it in more detail, if you wish.

I think you need to re-read your OP, though. It's clear that you don't like this person. He doesn't sound my cup of tea, either tbh.

But to pretty much decide he's committed domestic abuse on his previous partner? To decide he's just a 'follower' of a guy who has gone to the effort of inviting him to his wedding?

Ok, 'crazy' isn't a great term to use about a partner, but if a woman was talking about a partner being possessive and not giving her freedom would you automatically assume that SHE was the abuser? Really?

I didn't decide he's committed abuse. My thread is even titled 'is he EA?' That's asking people's opinions! I really don't get why you're so keen to push this massively distorted view of what I said.
It'll be brief as I'm on my phone but:
I was planning to talk to her as I've never met her before so I'm interested what she's like. Fullstop.
I'm not planning to talk to her in any specific probing way, just normal 'hello how are you, love your dress, isn't my baby cute' kind of stuff. This I indicated by saying 'planning to talk to her, not in any way' I was sloppy in not being more specific there.
I then say that IF I get the impression things aren't great, then, as I would with anyone, I would if appropriate in the conversation drop in something along the lines of 'my dp is so lovely doing x, I'm sure yours is the same' in a kind of modeling good relationship behaviour way.
That is all.

A genuine question: do you know the situation regarding legal aid for non dv cases?
If it is as I guessed in my OP then would you take the situation to mean that he had been ea before?
If you can conclude that he has been EA before do you agree that the crazy thing could indicate a similar pattern here?
And if you thought there was a similar pattern here would you be tempted, online at least, to say something mild like I suggested above?

Without trying to assassinate each other I'd love to know which of these points is the one where we disagree.

Pondering whether he was abusive is ok. Considering advising a stranger what a good relationship should be like , however gently, is well over the line and could cause incredible offence. There's really no reason she should take advice from you , she doesn't really know you .What makes you think she doesn't know what a good relationship should look like ? Because it's probably that assumption that would cause the most offense.

I get you have read about emotional abuse and its something that's interested you , but the fact that you assume this conversation might jolt her into realizing that something isn't right just shows how little you actually know about emotional abuse. I think other posters are right in suggesting you rethink your boundaries.

Emotional abuse is much more complicated than one person being shit to the other. It often involves family dynamic patterns, childhood wounds , lack of self esteem , fear , ect. The personality disordered are prone to being particularly abusive. Some people know they are being abused whilst others do not. My relative KNOWS she is being abused. I've seen the nosebleeds and black eyes. So have the police. She isn't kept hostage , she can leave any time she chooses. Despite this she claims to love him and wants to be in a marriage with him.

The effects of this on family's is rarely acknowledged. But it's pretty damm awful .

I have no idea about legal aid as I don't live in the UK but it surely can't just be for dv. Do you know for sure that is the only thing it could be in this case or what real evidence do you have for reaching this conclusion?

I don't see his comment as a sign of him being EA. If it is a sign of anything, it is that his new relationship isn't going well. I think it is a massive jump in imagination to make that comment a sign of him being EA. It is another massive jump in imagination to link it to legal aid that may or may not be given for dv.

There is too much guess work and jumping to conclusions based on the thinnest evidence in your first post to make me think your interference would be justified in any way.

I also think it is a misguided idea to approach strangers and comment their relationship or mention your own relationship as a template for how they should run their own. That is the way to get people's backs up and make them less interested in what you have to say.

Your heart is in the right place, OP, but I think you need to rethink your strategy for helping women.

It sounds like he just makes stupid comments to impress others as described in your first post. Also it sounds like these stupid comments are tolerated.

I personally would forget the ea stuff for now. Instead I'd get mad at the homophobic , racist and sexist jokes that are tolerated within your husbands friendship group. If someone was telling these sorts of jokes my husband would make it clear it's not funny.

Honestly, re-read your OP.

You pretty much indicated that you think he's committed domestic violence on his ex.

Your OP actually says he's probably the type to make homohobic/sexist etc jokes. So does this mean he hasn't actually done this?

You then say: "IF I get the impression things aren't great, then, as I would with anyone, I would if appropriate in the conversation drop in something along the lines of 'my dp is so lovely doing x, I'm sure yours is the same' in a kind of modeling good relationship behaviour way."

You do this?? Really?? If people confide in you that their relationships aren't going well you attempt to model good relationship behaviour? Why? If she knows it isn't going well she doesn't need you to tell her!

I want to say your heart is in the right place, but sorry, you do sound like a busybody.

Fine, I got my answer, I think my boundaries are fine but others disagree. I clearly don't know enough about EA to sayanything so I won't. My dp actually considered strstepping down as the best man following some dodgy sexist comments on the stag but doesn't have the heart to let his oldest buddy down at the last minute.
I've had enough of justifying myself here so I'm off.
Genuinely thanks for everyone who answered me telling me to keep out. Those who went that extra mile, I think it was rude and unnecessary, but that's just my opinion. I'll go back to hide in questions about sore nipples and weaning babies where I belong.

Ok, bye now.