Money money money :(

[pearsandpickle]

Name changed for this.

Short story...

We are spiralling more and more into debt and keep arguing about it. We have more than enough money coming in which leaves us over £100 a week for food etc and dh and I both have equal spending money. Or we did - before something major happened with our home (£5k worth of work) that used all our savings and tipped us into the red.

Now we cannot seem to get out of it. It's just one thing after another and dh and I keep arguing over what is acceptable spending etc and how to manage it.

For example, we have two dc. The eldests birthday was this week (12). We took them shopping to spend their birthday money and also buy school shoes for them. Dc has very wide feet and standard shoes do not fit. We went into 20 shops. We ended up back in a particular shop. The only shoes that fitted properly were £50. I got them for dc because to me it's important they fit well and good shoes will last for school rather than buying several pairs.

Dh visibly groaned and seemed really pissed off. We then returned back to the car and found we had been charged a lot more for parking than we thought. Yes we should have checked but we normally park there and it's never been that much before. We got stung hugely..

Then (!) We came home to find our oven has broken. It will cost about £100 to fix. We have no savings and are already £800 overdrawn so we will have to either add this to the overdraft or to a credit card (owe about £2k on one card).

The main problem I have is dh just totally overreacts in my opinion. Yes it's horrible being in debt and yes I want to sort it out but dh will literally go into a huge rage or massive sulk - leaving dc feeling awful after spending birthday money for example (money that others had given - we only gave a small amount ourselves) and is now hardly talking to any of us.

Yes we have debt. We can manage it if we buckle down to it. I have worked out a budget and I think we can crack it but dh is so negative it's like the world has ended.

Am I being unreasonable to be more laid back about this? He keeps saying I don't allow him to be angry but I just think what is the point of being angry over sodding money when we have debt but it's at a manageable level and we have a tiny mortgage compared to most people (under £200 a month).

I don't even know what im asking. I just feel so fed up with him going on and on about it. And I feel bad for dc about the school shoes when they really needed them and dh will think nothing of spending that much on shoes for himself.

Really getting tired of women taking the blame for partners who are nothing less than useless, he is stressed, does he not think you are trying to juggle the finances and buying good shoes for your kids is not being frivolous! Stop blaming yourself for wanting to give your kids what every other kid has got. You own one pair of shoes and 4 tops - I bet he has more, he has his spending money though eh.

Honestly get a grip and tell him to stop taking the financial situation out on you and the children - he really does sound like a spoilt little brat.

Yes a joint effort OP, which involves him actually supporting you and thanking you for doing such a bloody good job of it whilst he sits back and complains, I could not stand to live with someone like that.

the most I will get out of him is a "yep" if I ask him if he wants a tea
I know where that tea would be if I was you!

Sound like this is the tip of the iceburg.

Look up 'stonewalling' and show him what it says. So he can see that he's being plain nasty by using this abusive tactic!

OP pop over to the Money Matters threads and look for our debt support group - we're on thread no4...loads of help, advice and guidance there...

Another good place to start is the Moneysavingexpert forum. There's a whole section called "Debt-Free Wannabe" where there's access to a planning spreadsheet. It's sometimes much easier to get things in context once you actually see all the outgoings listed and allowances made for necessary spends. It could mean only a couple of months of serious belt-tightening to get that overdraft paid back and an in-road made on that debt. You're in less than three grand in debt at the minute and compared to other stories you might read on MSE that's a drop in the ocean compared to how really bad things could be.

Thanks for the messages. I will pop over to money matters later today.

I'm feeling really angry today. Dh came home yesterday and we literally said two words to each other all evening - this is ridiculous considering he had a week off work last week and we were very happy together, lots of talking and joking and laughing. It's like I overspent and suddenly he hates me. It's absolutely stupid.

I said to him I know that he's upset about the money, I am too but it wasn't fair that dc had a lovely day out for the birthday and then to come back to dh with a face like thunder because of some shoes and parking. It'd nonsense. And actually you're all right - I'm not daft with money. I don't go and spend 000s on ipads or whatever. I don't spend any money really except dc needed school shoes and we needed to pay parking - yes I could have possibly found cheaper shoes but with an extra wide width fitting it's difficult and the way I see it we can pay it back and it will be worth the purchase long term. And as for the parking - what did he want us to do? Leave the car there?

Today we have had another clash because I have tried to see if I can get an element for the oven but for various reasons we can't. So I phoned round several places and found someone who can repair it for £40. Which I don't think is too bad. I came off the phone feeling relatively positive and said to dh that's good isn't it and dh gave me a look like I shit in his breakfast and moaned about how much it was!

And yet if we don't get it fixed he will be the first to moan we can't have roast dinner etc which is his favourite!

I just feel so fed up he's so negative. It's really annoying me. He then stormed off to have a shower and texted me (!) saying he would give me his spending money next month (we have about £150 each) towards the overdraft and the oven. I'm pleased but I also feel like rather than doing it with a pleasant heart like me (I just use my spending money for extras for the house really to be honest) he's sitting there seething about it.

I also feel like he's blaming me for the house account being overdrawn so I've said I'm going to pay our weekly house / food budget into my old single account (which is never used) and i'm going to start using that again so the house account remains untouched except for wages in and bills out.

But at the same time I feel like I've said it's my fault and it isn't - not wholly anyway!

So so angry and fed up.

Just to be clear so everyone knows roughly what's floating about - dh earns 2000 a month, we receive child benefit for 134 a month and our bills including mortgage but excluding food come to £880 a month. We have no petrol or travel costs apart from for leisure as dh walks to work. .. so we aren't doing badly we just need to stick to the budget.

As I said before .
I would insist that your dh takes over the finances so that he realises how difficult it is for you.
However, I suspect that he already knows how difficult things are for you, but he prefers to lay the blame on you.

It irritates me when guys, because they don't do the housekeeping finances, don't realise what things cost.

My father has spent his entire life being surprised at the price of things and if you asked him to estimate something, he's way off.

When I started out and money was tight I used to bin whole categories - no cinema, no alcohol, no takeaways, no ready meals - you may not be buying those anyway - but it's surprising how quickly you can save by cutting out non-essentials.

You need to stop spending "your" share of spending money on household things. Not simply because it's not fair, but because it means neither of you understand what it costs to run your home.
Both spends have to be reduced and that money go into the emergency fund. Sounds like you're budgeting for the known, but not the predictably regular shite that happens!

I'll just throw this in too - does he resent you not working?

I agree you do need a treat but the treat has to be relative. For us a treat might be a kfc instead of nandos.

You have £300 spending money between you, for 'non budgeted items' (ie seen as money that you can spend freely), but are £800 overdrawn and have £2000 credit card debt???

I absolutely understand that an occasional treat makes a period of austerity bearable, but surely you could put a small amount into the budget for each week as 'planned treat money' and then just put that £300 into the household pot for food / essential clothes / bills / to cover house diasters?

I wouldn't be buying expensive shoes and parking in expensive places if I was in debt.

I wouldn't be buying expensive shoes and parking in expensive places if I was in debt.

Would you like to borrow a cloth to polish your halo?
What has that got to do with the OP?

Debt is sometimes unavoidable and the OP is happy that they can pay it back, that is not her issue, her issue is her husbands moods and playing the blame game when they have to spend money.

Perhaps you could try answering her OP than basking in your own smugness.

I am answering. The quicker the debt is paid the the quicker the stress will go and the tension that the debt is causing will be lifted.

It sounds like he just isn't prepared to tighten his belt in the way that you both need to. Perhaps he doesn't genuinely realise that inflation on basics like food etc. have risen dramatically so the spare cash has gone done.

I would reduce your spends to something more realistic like £60 per month each. Why on earth did you serve up/not say something about him eating a whole joint of meat - did you tell hiim that it is £7? I really think he needs to do an internet shop and meal menu for a 3 week rota so he can see how much food is now costing.

Ok - you do have enough to pay that off so if I were you [because I like them] I'd do a spreadsheet with income down one column, all expenditure down the other and how much you need to put aside in addition to that £880 to pay off the overdraft in 3 months. I'd wait until I had the spare cash to get the oven mended. I'd put the debt in red letters on the whiteboard and as it reduces, cross it out and write the new amount with your estimated debt free date in big letters next to it. Make sure ALL your spends go onto the spreadsheet as that's usually where the money goes to.

I'd do a freezer and cupboard audit and go for a minimum shop for 3 months trying to use up all your stored food. And aside this, a menu plan each week to use it up. Again, this goes on the whiteboard.

I'd sit down and have a chat about how if we all pull together, maybe go through what you could sell - you can get this done and dusted well in time for Christmad. But you all need to agree not to get stressed and antsy at each other and that includes all of you.

I've been there - I had a student debt on my credit cards and calculated two years worth of debt reduction and stuck to it. It is possible.

Thank you for the comments. I can see why some would think for goodness sake why on earth are they keeping that spending money when they have debt... and you're right. I guess we were a bit naive in thinking we were managing the debt and it just slowly crept up. Not something I'm proud of. Feel very ashamed and stupid actually.

As for the parking - we have parked in that car park for the last 6 years and it's always cost us £4 for a whole days parking in the city which is the cheapest one there was. Okay we didn't check the charges this time we went but who seriously checks every time if you've parked there for 6 years ? So to put the ticket in and see £20 was a bit of a disaster we did not expect.

Dh is still not talking to me. The last thing I said to him was maybe we could come to some agreement where we both half our spending money and use the rest towards the debt. He hasn't actually replied. Just shrugged and walked out as if he's disappointed with me / the situation I don't know.

You're right I shouldn't have used my spending money towards the house because I think it has stopped dh seeing how much things cost. I think some of it (see the "mug" on my forehead) is that I know dh has been very unhappy at work and he has a regular hobby that costs £150 a month for 1 day and it gives him a lot of pleasure..so... trying to be nice really I haven't said anything and supported him in doing it as it seems to give him a lot of confidence, something he was lacking before.

So yes I was / have been a bit stupid really.

On the other hand if I had stopped dh having that money he would have been extremely depressed and he has suffered with severe depression in the past to the point of losing jobs over sick leave etc. So I didn't want to make him more stressed.

He doesn't resent me working. If anything he doesn't really want me to work. When we had dc he was happy for me to stop work (which I also wanted - I had a very high paid job, hence the low mortgage now- but I hated it) and he likes the fact that I'm sort of like a pa / mum / wife / cleaner / general do everything at home.

If I let him do the Internet shop I dread to think what he'd put in. Probably about 24 steaks and 15 large packs of crisps. Sigh.

That's me ranting. But yes he probably should have a go at doing it.

I should have said something about the £7 joint of meat but as it was his week off I wanted him (us?) to have a nice time so I didn't. If I said something he would have sulked and moaned and probably not spoken to me for a day.

How bloody miserable is this.

We don't go out. We don't have any family to help and can't afford childcare. We don't drink or smoke at all ever. Our main overspend is food to be honest. Dh and dc are fussy and won't eat meat unless it is a super prime cut - something I'm trying to change and a meal isn't a meal to them without meat in it.

I feel like I'm stuck in the bloody 1950s.

I used to work in very senior roles in marketing and i'm not sure if that's something I could get back into but I have re done my CV and I am on the look out for jobs and have contacted agencies who have my details.

I am considering a minimum wage type job too but I have to consider the costs of childcare and petrol etc balanced against what I would earn. Plus I couldn't do a physical job at all for health reasons.

I like the idea of the board and crossing off the debt. I am going to do that tomorrow.

Dh is working late tonight and I am strangely grateful. I just feel so awkward and depressed sitting there ignoring each other.

Thanks for letting me moan.

Look, if you had run up debt spending it on lipsticks I could understand his anger. But all that's happened is.. LIFE ! Sometimes we are just not prepared for these things..But is sounds like although you don't like being in the red you have a plan to get out. He needs to grow up and accept that's the ebb and flow of finances.. Or you know he could figure out a way it bring in extra income.. eBay etc. But your family finances are not solely down to you ( unless you have an extensive lipstick collection of course!)

Oh gosh if only I had an extensive lipstick collection! :) ... laughingly I have been using a cotton bud to take out the inside of the last lipstick I have! Honestly. I am on the last legs of all my make up (own one of each thing) and I can't afford to replace it.

I know what you mean about lower paid work around the house etc. I don't want anyone to think i'm being a snob - I've had a very varied work history including everything from pot washing to senior account manager for a luxury household name. I don't mind doing anything as long as I can do it...

I will investigate things I might be able to do from home. I've been doing a lot of selling things on eBay but I don't think I have anything left to sell now - I don't think I'd get much for dh.

Well the guy who could fix the oven is away for a week anyway (I said I'd ring back when he's back if we decide to fix it) so the moody fucker will have to cope on hob dinners.

I appreciate all the support. I'm already feeling a bit more in control.

OP -get yourself onto Money Saving Expert forum and ask there - they will take you through your monthly spends and really help you to cut down on things and get that debt busted.

Pretending it isn't there won't help because that way it will never go away. You all need to face it head on and as mentioned - having no oven will help you to start feeding them meat free food for a while.

Have look at threads in www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters

People there have lots of good advice and will help you if you have specific questions about budgeting and managing debt.