"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

GoodtoBetter

I shall play your mother a very, very small violin. She really does take the cake doesn't she?. I do also think she is batshit mad. Typical narc behaviour all this as well.

If your uncle does write to you I would consider taking your time before replying.

On a far happier note I do hope your childrens first day at their new schools went well.

"How has your father coped all these years?" I think that's why he's so ill Meerka, the stress of having to walk on eggshells constantly. He told me he was miserable years ago, and then it was one illness after another after he retired. I suppose it wasn't so bad when he could escape to the office. He stayed with her out of guilt, he once told me. She's an expert at flipping peoples guilt buttons.

Her only topic of conversation is how much she does for my dad, how difficult everything is for her. According to her, he requires 24hr care, yet she went on holiday and left him on his own. I had offered to stay there whilst she was away, emailing her dates when I couldn't make it. She then booked the flight so it coincided with my exam. Then told me she "wouldn't be hurt if I didn't want to stay there".q

She's not speaking to me since the snippy email about why she'd re-gifted the jewellery to me. Oh apart from the shouty texts demanding to know if I'd received the money she'd sent me. I'm OK with her not talking to me, relieved really, but I hope she won't try to prevent me from communicating with my dad.

I'm searching for a counsellor at the moment. I've realised I have massive self esteem issues because of years of endless criticism from her. It's good to be able to mull it over on here, and to hear of other's experiences. I read a lot of the previous threads before posting, and my god, I could have written a lot of those posts.

A lot of your posts sound like they could have been written by me.

I do have a supportive OH who is helping me to figure out what to do. DM has tried her hardest to break up our relationship, but we've both realised that so are strong together. I am going to try and slowly limit how often I see her. If it wasn't for my grandma the we would move far far away.

I'm only just realising that everything 'wrong' with me was in fact her doing. I spent 15months in psychiatric hospital as a teenager and never clocked that it was DM that had caused all my issues. She his everything so well, the hospital staff just assumed I was an adolescent rebelling against her mother

I've bought a little notebook to keep a bit of a diary about things and to log what she says / does

Thanks Attila, she really is such a nutter. I am beginning to enjoy the NC, feels peaceful.

The more you say, the more it sounds to me like your sister is the only one you'll get any joy with.

the event - can you maybe ask the person whose event it is to assign someone to keep an eye on your mother?

Regarding making sense of the whole thing, it might help to write bits down here and here in an exercise book as they come back to you. The more you write down, it gives it a place in your mind and in the end you can start to make sense of it, structure it.

I would actually leave speaking to your siblings until you have managed to put the harshness and mockery into some sort of order and perspective in your mind, and have started to come to terms with it. I don't think it will do you any good to approach them and to be laughed at again; and given that you were the scapegoat and that you have adopted a different culture and religion, they probably see you as even more of an outsider. Also, some people are extremely passionate about religion. Could they have taken it badly that you changed to another? it will be yet another chasm between you, and it's one they aren't interested in bridging from all you've said. I'm sorry.

What Meerka wrote.

It would certainly seem that your mother has a narcissistic personality; its all about image and artifice to these people and everything has to be about them.

TBH I would not bother speaking to your siblings primarily because they will likely continue to scapegoat you. They also do not and cannot readily challenge the dysfunctional order of things within their family of origin; they would much rather see you scapegoated than they.

"I suppose I should just enjoy the peace and quiet, my lovely DH and DC and try to piece everything together to rebuild myself"

Yes you should indeed do this and this is going to take a long time. There's no quick fix here.

"There's no quick fix" no there isn't and although NC can be a bit of a relief at first, it's also a bit bewildering and quite hard to get your head around (certainly is for me). You also have to try to break out of your conditioning too.
I'm currently sitting in the library (about to do some work, honest) which is right in front of Dm's house. It feels a bit weird.

ouch, puffin, about the reading your stuff and telling others. No boundaries, either, eh? No wonder you are reluctant to write it down.

goodtobetter being so close to her house will probably stay weird. But as time goes on, the NC gets easier because you realise how much less intensely stressed you are. this sounds hard to believe but I'm convinced it's true - a lot of the difficulty of going NC is actuallly because our deepest ingrained habits of listening to our parents is having to be broken. Habit's a useful thing, it keeps us going, but it can be incredibly difficult to break. It's not always a conscious thing. As time goes on though, new habits begin to be formed and when it comes to going NC, it means you'll be in the habit of breathing fresh air, not in an oppressively claustrophobic unseen prison.

Yes, that's very true about habits, Meerka. I still often think "I'll tell Dm about X when we next see her" (cos it gives me something to talk about) and then remember I won't be seeing her. Feels weird, but then the idea of having any interaction with her at the moment is horrible too.
She's apparently been throwing out stuff so she can move back to the UK and says she has thrown out Dbro's sports trophies! He said he wanted to keep one but apparently she's chucked the lot!

"I'll tell Dm about X when we next see her"

I still think that. sad isn't it :(

stay strong GOOD let her go and move back to the UK. nowhere near me

see *Good? NOTHING will stop her make others feel HER "pain"

Your DB is merely collateral damage too. My DM only returned utter junk when she moved - all the shit she didn't want, including a totally battered pewter christening tankard of mine. I found that really hurtful actually as it embodied how I felt I was seen/treated/cared about.

Everything she brought seemed designed to make a nasty point actually.

I snapped at her not to bring her rubbish to me and that if she had nothing of value of mine, to bin it.

Your DB is being sucked in, so he needs to say to her that if she has chucked his trophies then he is angry and hurt at her lack of thought/concern and that perhaps she ought to leave HIM alone for a while until he calms down.

hmmm good idea that, Good's brother telling her he's hurt and she should leave him alone.

jusst maybe, like dealing with a 2 year old, it might make her consider not pissing him off so much he cuts her off too. Probably not, but just maybe.

Dbro wasn't ultimately that fussed, just a bit surprised...but it's typical of her. She's looking for a reaction from him...ultimately to get back at me really.

How's it going everyone? DS has now done his first few days of primary and DD has just started infants and seems very happy. I'm back at work on Tuesday but only have classes 2 days and they are good, easy levels for me. The rest of the time I'll be studying for my professional exam in Jan and trying to pick up other work as and when. I feel strangely relaxed and happy and calm, just have the occasional blip sometimes, like now when I'm in the library which is right in front of the house (the house I lived in with her for 3 years before the super row). Odd to think of her in there, manically chucking stuff away and brooding and generally being as mad as a box of frogs.
I have my first therapy session on Tuesday and may or may not reply to my uncle next week to basically tell him that I don't want to talk to her for the foreseeable future.
Still stunned from time to time at what a complete and utter fucking WEIRDO I am related to. Just cannot begin to comprehend that someone could be that mad and nasty and bitter. And mad. Total fruitloop. Like I said before, if I didn't know better I'd think dementia. But we all know it's not, she's just not been stood up to like this for years, if ever.

doing ok thanks good. the birth of the Squeak seems to have nudged the whole parental thing to the front of my mind and it's still rumbling on. After 25 years trying vainly to earn my father's approval, it's taking a bit of adjusting to no longer wanting to see him. I can't stop the silly yearning for approval, it's still pretty unrelenting, but my head is so much clearer than it used to be about him and his, shall we say sly, wife. Hopefully one day the rest of me will get a grip too =)

Now I have stopped mentally bashing myself against the bars of his disapproval, little bits are coming back from the blur of my teen years. So far every single memory of the later years of him being unpleasant. not one single nice one, not one. Ho hum.

thank god for becoming adult.

GtB sorry for delay been manic with the kids.

Mum hates anything in my life that isn't her idea basically and she hates dogs. With a bit of luck she won't want to visit now for the next 15 years

"After 25 years trying vainly to earn my father's approval, it's taking a bit of adjusting to no longer wanting to see him."

Totally get that, Meerka

Financial hopefully the pup will mean she doesn't come over as much...win-win. You get a lovely puppy and see her less. :)

hey everyone, Ive been on and off this thread and rec'd some sound advice and Im back for some more...sorry its a bit long!

Background: been nc with IL's for 3.5 years, we have an 8 year old (that they have ignored, part of the reason for fall out) and now a two week old baby.

Dh insisted on ringing IL's the day after I gave birth to tell them about the baby. FIL answered phone and congratulated us then proceeded to tell dh how ill they have been (nothing new or remotely serious- fil has a cough- stress related and also runs in his family, MIL has had a "leg operation again"- ie she has had her varicose vains injected...and are off to their holiday home in the sun to re-coup) They did what they always do and turned it into being all about them and their misery and woe. FIL asked if they could see the baby, dh was non committal. When dh hung up he made a comment about going to see them on his own with the kids...then to avoid an argument backtracked.

The day after fil sends dh a text, saying he was shocked on the phone and didn't know what to say, could they share in our news and have a picture oh and one of ds1 also...could we let them know what gift they could send.
We also got a congrats on baby card in the post.

Then last night we get a call from FIL's brother (really nice guy) saying that IL's feel left out and they felt we had deliberately with held telling them the babys name (fil didn't ask when dh rang him with news) and that dh had not replied to their text. Thankfully he was able to inform inlaws that, no nothing deliberate, we had taken two weeks to decide on a final name so no one knew not even us. He offered to act as peace maker between us all and promised not to take sides...dh listened and again was non committal and thanked him for his call.

When we had ds1 8 years ago they ruined it for us with their broken promises, let downs and demands. They have been thoroughly horrid and nasty and it looks like they think they can sweep it all under the carpet- DH too.

Please, someone tell me how to handle this, why the fuck did dh have to open the door to them and tell them?! Why do they want anything to do with us now, they have said and done some unforgivable things. This is going to cause huge arguments between dh and I, he is looking for parents and they just arnt, they are never going to change. In fact just a month ago he said he had done the right thing shutting them out and yet here he is...

DH has shown me the messages (they never ring!) but Ive not commented- its pointless as I suspect it will cause an argument so Im waiting for dh to raise the subject of seeing them/sending pics.

whiteblossom i'd ask your DH to detail exactly what he hopes to get out of contact with his parents and his winged mokey brother?

i'd also ask him to detail what he thinks will actually happen.

explain that you both made choices regading his parents for good reason, and that you're not prepared to set yourself/your family up to be hurt again.

tell him that you feel he's opened a pandora's box and you're worried about the effect they have on your lives.

please both of you sit down and discuss how you've managed yourselves and his parents thus far and look objectively at any area you feel you could have judged better.

my guessing is that there won't be any areas that you screwed up. and that they've manufactured this perceived slight to further guilt trip and manipulate him.

analyse your actions, and see why you feel 'bad'. if it's because of a pack of crap they've said, then it's NOT true and they're manipulating you both. don't let them.

the truth shall set you free. find the truth and cling to it. the truth is your friend here, and it's their mortal enemy.

so... son has accident, hospital etc.. he told me 'not to leave it so long next time, blood's thicker than water and all that'

I did say 'blood makes a mess that takes longer to clear up..'

we got out of hospital, he had asked for me to let him know what's what/progress etc.

i'd invited him (after over a year NC) to see ds when we were back home. he ummed and arred. told me the day before he couldn't make it. that's fine I said, I assumed you couldn't and made other plans anyway.

found out a couple of months ago that his team were playing the team we watch. I invited him to come and watch it with me and ds. the first time to watch footy with his grandson, and not too far from home either.

he ummed and arred again, told me he'd let me know after i'd got back from our holiday.

our team beat his yesterday. there was no mention of him coming, he'd just chosen to ignore it. what kind of dad/gD does that?

funny thing was, there was an empty seat next to mine.

is it relevant that his team (on a dismal streak) were always probably going to lose? would that be enough to not go? not to mention anything about it? or is it more to punish me (yeah, good luck with that!)

i'll just go back to not bothering anymore. the only person that's losing is him. what a prick. i'm not hurt, not even surprised, just disappointed that he really is so small, worthless and pathetic a 'man'.

yeah, way to go on trampling every small gesture towards them ...

I'm sorry, hissy. Your son sounds a fine boy (and very brave).

I hope he's finding the new school year a good one.

---

whiteblossom ... what hissy said.

I would strongly suggest telling the BIL that you don't wish further contact with the in laws because they aren't going to change. You don't really want to go through all that again, do you?

Has your husband read Toxic Parents? He needs to. Beyond that, what hissy says. Ask your husband what good he thinks will come out of this. How he thinks they will behave. Good luck, painful parents are an almost never-ending sore, aren't they.

Meerka he's loving the new school year! loves his school, teacher, friends.

in many ways the accident has improved his life...

raised his 'visibility' they missed him like mad, it was such a horrendous thing to happen and so extensive (though thankfully not too deep) all boys and parents have been so kind, invitations to this and that, so many asking how he's doing etc.

it's taught him how much 'reserve' he has in his tank, and now that he knows he has strength to draw on, he applies that in everything! not just physical. he's literally the most inspiring person I know. i'm so proud and blessed to have him as my son. i'm so lucky ask me again in the teen years, eh

I think he'll be a super man, and i'm going to make it my mission to make sure he's a fine DH, and a great dad.