Why doesn't my mum like me being confident and strong?

[HangingBasketCase]

For many years I've struggled with confidence and assertiveness issues. I've also suffered with social anxiety and generalised anxiety, this has really held me back until recently but over the past few I've taken steps to address this and I've also had counselling.

During my counselling it suddenly dawned on my that my mum is the root cause of a lot of my problems. She's always been very overbearing, often telling me what to do and would get moody and snappy if I didnt do it so I learned it was best to shut up and say nothing, even if she was out of order. On the rare occasions where I did stick up for myself or speak up I was usually told to shut up. Mum dislikes criticism and always likes to be right, and so her response would be to just shut me down rather than discussing it normally.

She didn't like it if I had my own opinions and would often shout me down, about that as well. As a consequence I've always been one of these people who sits on the fence and is scared of airing my point of view in case I offend others.

Basically instead of bringing me up to be a strong, confidence and assertive woman she turned me into a scared, weak pathetic creature. I say turned because over the past three years or so I've been working at changing myself using the tools and coping mechanisms given to me by my counsellor who was excellent. She told me that it's Ok to stand up to people, including my mum, and that it's perfectly Ok to air my point of view and that if that offends people it's their problem and not mine.

The problem is my mum doesn't like this. I now don't feel the need to pussyfoot around her, I stick up for myself and air my opinions openly. I'm never aggressive, but she will always try and shut me down. I always push the point though because I refuse to be "shut down" by her any longer. She thinks I've become awkward, difficult, moody, argumentative, you name it and she tried to tell me off like a child.

I don't understand it though? Surely most mums want their daughters to grow up to be strong, independent women able to cope with anything life throws at them and not weak push overs? I don't get it. What is her problem?

It sounds like you're doing really well: got a good counsellor that you've clicked with, considering taking up a new career, being newly assertive. However, as others have observed, your mum is probably accustomed to the old you, who would go along with things to avoid confrontation. She probably wants you to be a strong, independent woman, but a strong independent woman who always agrees with her mother, because she knows her mother is always right.

You don't say how nearby your mum lives or how often you see her. Can you decrease the amount of time you spend together? I'm not saying go NC, but just spend less time together so you won't have so many opportunities to rub up against each other. You may find this happens quite naturally after you start retraining, if you're reluctant to start now. You'll have the excuse of needing to focus on homework and revision.

Good luck!

Maybe your counsellor has already advised you this, but phrases like

"Yes, I see what you mean but my opinion is..." shows that you are listening to your mum, even if you want to put across a different POV.

Also, any time you can find common ground, 'ham it up' a bit and let her know how much you respect her 'I absolutely agree with you, you're so right there, DM'. I do it with mine and she likes it a lot

I wonder if a bit of reassurance that you do still love her may be nice for her...

I don't disagree with her all of the time, we do agree on many things, but obviously disagree on others. It's when we disagree that the problems arise, she will first attempt to shout me down by talking loudly and over me , and then if that doesn't work she will get stroppy and moody and that's when comments like "oh just shut up will you" come out. It'd easier for her to tell someone to shut up rather than deal with an alternative viewpoint to her own. She's incapable of a proper debate.

I should say that I am never rude when I put my point across and I never shout.

Of course I do love her, but I can't go on allowing her to walk over me and try and stomp out any opinions I have. I can't go on being submissive, it's not got my mental well being.

Sorry to revive and old thread, but I thought I'd post and update everyone with how I'm getting on.

My mum is still trying to tell me what I should and shouldn't do, and getting so horribly offended when I don't fall into line with what she wants. I've recently handed my notice in at work and I have a new job to go to, this is absolutely the right decision for me as I've had itchy feet and have been ready for a new challenge for a while. However even though she's said that she's pleased for me I've also had to put with comments questioning whether or not I've made the right the decision, and on how reliable and reputable the company I'm going to work for are. She's now made me question myself as to whether I made the right decision, despite knowing I'll be financially much better off. I know it's a risk moving jobs, but isn't life about taking risks?

I'm so tired of it to be honest, I feel like emigrating to Australia or somewhere far away so I don't have to be dictated to all of the time. Also my DB threatened to stop speaking to her recently when she tried to interfere in his life (I don't want to say what it was, but she tried to dictate to him like she does me).

It's almost like she doesn't see me as separate entity from her.

HBC I posted recently about my difficult mother and some of what you say here rings bells with me.
Giving out criticism but not being able to take criticism is typical narcissistic behavior, as is refusing to accept that other people have a different opinion to you. There are far more helpful posters than me on Mumsnet that know about narcisstic mothers and you also might get some help on the Stately Homes thread. xxx

Hi OP. I can totally relate. My mum was very similar. I grew up questioning myself all the time, incapable of making decisions and always waiting for somebody else to tell me what to do for fear that if I made a decision it would be the wrong one.

It really does take a toll on your instincts, makes it very difficult to trust yourself. Like with your job situation, you know it's the right thing but thanks to mum doubts are creeping in. I would advise ignoring her views on this one and let time tell. When the job works out fine and dandy you can give yourself a pat on the back and remind yourself that mother does not always know best.

I don't think you have to go to Australia to avoid her influence,. How far do you live from her? How often do you see her or speak to her? I would definitely look at cutting down contact time if I were you.

I live ten minutes away from her, but wish I could move a bit further away.
On the other hand I don't see why I should have to move when she's the one with the problem?

Firstly, I think it's brilliant that you have been doing all this work, and are now feeling so much more confident.

Secondly, I think you should go no contact with you mother. If she asks, tell her you can't stand her overbearing, critical, constant need to be right. So you just won't bother with her anymore.

You don't need her constantly being the one to try and drag you back down, or to have to face her smug face if you face bumps along the way.

Some people are just shitty mothers - she sounds like one of them.

Wow, how many times can I use the word "face" in one sentence...?

10 minutes away - yikes. It may be a good idea to look at moving further afield if its possible or practical. I did this as soon as I could (18). I don't know if your mum is a full on narc or if she is like my mum was, very difficult but essentially benign. I can't advise on how to deal with a narc but with my mum I knew that if I didn't cut those apron strings myself she wasn't going to do it.

As you say though, it is your mum who has the problem and so why should you move. Well, I agree but you are the one who is going to have to take action because your mum doesn't have the insight or the skills to look objectively at herself and see that she is the problem.

You are going to have to look at how you detach and put distance between you without physically moving. This might be a combination of being blunt with her and cutting some contact ie don't discuss every aspect of your life with her, don't ask for her opinion, don't ask for her practical or financial help unless it's an emergency. Detach, detach, detach, stop her letting her in.

Of course, all of the above was possible with my mother because she wasn't a narc. If your mum is then you may need different strategies.

My father is a controlling bully, OP. He is emotionally abusive and tries to emotionally blackmail me at every opportunity. I believe him to be a narc and the product of being mummy's special soldier - he has had his own way on everything from the day he was born. I was in therapy for a long time before I realised that my problem wasn't me but him. He is so insecure that he cannot do anything but try to control people, put them down, emotionally blackmail them and bully them into doing what he wants because then he feels powerful - Control and power are key words here. Some including my mother acquiese and adopt the 'anything for a quiet life' attitude. I have never done this. I don't know why because I have no siblings and my mother's attitude has not been positive so there haven't been any good role models around.

One of the best things I was ever told is that we have to accept our parents the way they are. It doesn't mean we have to like them or put up with their shit or even have contact with them. It means that we accept them as defective and detach as much as possible. Somehow OP, you have to accept that your mother for whatever reason, is not the mother you want or deserve. Once you've done that you'll stop seeking her approval and her criticisms will no longer bother you. Yes, you'll feel sad at times but she won't be able to hurt you any longer.

Generally speaking, the kind of person who doesn't want others to be confident, strong, successful, etc is someone who is very insecure themselves. If you throw in the control element then they become a bully, pure and simple.

I'm not totally convinced that being raised by a dysfunctional parent easily explains things like bullying. If that were the case, you'd be a bully yourself... and you don't appear to be. However, it might explain the bully's insecurities and fears of losing control.

As your brother has demonstrated, a bully will usually back down when severely challenged or if they think they have more to lose than to gain. It's unfortunate when you have to have power battles with close relatives but them's the breaks...

Ah yes the overbearing domineering Mama

Got one of them

I have found that giving minimal info really helps

So - new job lined up? Present as a fait-accompli once you've started/minor health niggles? Don't mention them unless you have test results back and a course of treatment put in place/fancy an expensive holiday? Keep schtum until very near to departure date/kids doing yer head in? Keep trap shut always, indicate all is fine, thank you.

Successfully avoids the "what do you want to do THAT for?!" sneer

Sigh

OP, I see a lot of what you're saying in my relationship with dm. Since I was a child (the difference being i have always been forthcoming with opinions) I've been told that 'I argue black and white' 'I'd start a fight in an empty house' and experienced a lot of negativity. A couple of months ago I passed my driving test and my mum told me 'well you'll be getting fat then because you won't be walking anywhere and getting lazy' wtf???
Honestly I just steer well clear as much as possible, if I'm being honest my mother makes my blood boil and large percentage of the time.

Completely agree with PP about giving minimal info.....I tell my parents nothing. Then I get hit with the 'oh you never tell us anything' should they find out from another source. Can't win really :-(

I'm not sure that my mum is a narc. She's overbearing and controlling yes, but I've read descriptions of other peoples mothers who suffer with narcissism and she's not as bad as that. She's never been verbally or physically abusive or anything like that.

I think maybe I need to just detach a bit.

Yes, detach a bit. And be a little less available. Ring her less; pick up the phone to her less; if she calls round unexpectedly be on the verge of going out. Actually go out if you have to. It's a bit hard work to have to go out when you don't want to but in the end she'll get the message that if she calls round unannounced she can't stay, and it won't happen so often.

What would actually happen if you told her to her face that she is overbearing and critical? Is there a faint chance she'd be so shocked that she'd improve? or would it unleash WW3?

Move. It is the easiest option by far. FGS don't tell her you are moving until it is too late to change your mind.

You are in the FOG: Fear Obligation Guilt.

Physical distance is the easiest way to detach.

Mommy dearest.

Mine decided to give a full critique on my past boyfriends last night to prove that I can't pick men. I was so fucked off I told her cheerily not to worry as each time I fail, I get a bigger house.

If she's not attacking my choice in men, she has a go about my friends. In a sort of perverse twist she always displays some sort of admiration for the ones who abuse me a bit.

She also delights in telling me 'what my problem is'.

The most memorable quote from my childhood was her saying to me 'I wish you had never been born'.

Apologies for the hijack, felt like sharing

She'd be furiousMeerkat. She's not great with criticism, and I'd probably be on the receiving end of an epic sulk.

Epic sulks can be refreshingly quiet for quite a long time if you don't disturb the sulker

Yep, my mum sounds much like yours.

It is difficult. Mine will now smile/laugh when I pull her up on her behaviour but backs down and apologises when me and DS are walking out of the door - but it's always too late, we always keep on walking.

Other days she is fine. I have stopped commenting on her goady moans as things are never how she tells me and will week/months/years later tell me that "I've got it all wrong".

I feel with my own mum, she was controlled and manipulated for a long time by different husbands/partners and so asserting control over me allows her to think that she is in control of something and holds the reigns. It's a nasty tactic to employ on your own daughter though.

Well done for getting help to over come this - I hope your confidence keeps on growing!

'It's almost like she doesn't see me as separate entity from her'

I think you're spot on there Hanging. My mother is very similar to yours. I consider her highly emotionally abusive and downright dangerous to be around. Please don't compare your situation to others and think that 'she's not that bad' because she never swore at you or hit you. Her behaviour is very stressful to you, undermines your feelings of self-worth. You are imagining wistfully what it would be like to move to the other side of the planet to get away from her. You don't have to brush it off just because she's your mother.

I live in a different country to my parents and I am grateful for that fact on a daily basis. I know that may not be a possibility for you, but I do agree with others about limiting contact with your mother. When you do see her, keep it light and breezy - don't share anything with her that is very important to you. It sounds like she delights in crapping all over things you enjoy or are excited about - just don't give her the opportunity.

An absolutely ENORMOUS well done on all the work you have done so far. It is so difficult, so painful, so very sad having to learn new ways of communicating with your parents in order to preserve your own sanity. Its the hardest work I've ever done (I'm 5 year into psychotherapy) but also the most rewarding.

You are right - happy healthy mothers do want their daughters to succeed and to have a good life. Just not mothers like ours It's horrible but its not your fault. You have already started to put yourself first - keep on going.