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Relationships

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Subtle wrong-footing in the context of a long-term relationship

50 replies

BranchingOut · 12/08/2014 11:48

I am coming on to get a few opinions on some things that happen during interactions between my DH and I. These are not major things, but they open a window for me onto a side of him that I have seen before and don't really like. Apologies for the length, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding. Some of it is also just getting the feelings out of my system.

We have been together 20+ years (got together v young) and have a DS, coming up to 5. When he was 15 months we had a crisis in our relationship where DH said that he wasn't sure about being married any more and withdrew all affection for approximately five months. He also said some quite unsupportive things during this time, about a situation over which I had very little control. We were reconciled (mostly as I was willing to put it behind us), but there have been mini crises cropping up again every so often. Last year I came to the point of having had enough and went to see a solicitor in the spring, which was really helpful - he does not know this. I also had individual counselling for about six months. Also in the spring, during a row, I told him that I was on very close to saying 'enough is enough', at which point he began crying and said that he didn't want to lose me. We moved house last year, partly as a fresh start, but at the time of buying/selling I told him that we were giving our relationship one last chance. This is also partly to give ourselves the opportunity to have a sibling for DS, although this looks unlikely to happen.

So there are issues....Grin. However on a day-to-day basis we rub along ok, parent together, have a moderate sex life and companionable dialogue. Affection is a bit limited and tends to be initiated by me, but I have more or less accepted that he doesn't really love me anymore - although it hurts to write that. Romantic and sexual love feels like a phase of my life that is over and on many levels (having grown apart from or been bady let down by family members) I do believe that we are all fundamentally alone in the world. Occasionally I hear a pop song with lyrics that spark a wave of longing, yearning to love and be loved....but it feels like another life. I am in my late thirties, still feel attractive and every so often I get 'the look' from a male stranger or acquaintance but...it's not worth it, where would it go? What's the point? So, given that there is just about enough residual affection and companionship between DH and I, a marriage 'of convenience' is something I am willing to accept.

However, I do still chafe against some of the things DH says and does, as they get me down a bit and I was wondering if MNers had any thoughts or suggestions.

His criticism tends to run along the theme of me 'not doing enough' and putting me in the wrong. For example, a couple of weeks ago he wanted us to do jobs A,B,C and D - these are things like getting a new passport, organising an event, some home admin...We were both doing/organising various bits of these jobs ABCD to get them done . But then he got very annoyed when I had not done job E, which was getting a refund on a small item worth 10 and began to criticise me along the lines of 'what are you doing that is so important'. If I say, well I was doing ABCD, he will then tend to mimimise my role in ABCD and come back quite aggressively along the lines of 'Well, I was doing that, do you expect me to do everything?'. He is a high earner and v articulate, so I can never, ever win an argument.

How can I fix these goalposts? I already tend to use email a lot to communicate, so that appointments etc are written down, as he often used to complain that I was trying to tell him appointments/dates at the wrong time of day eg. when he was trying to go to work, had just come home from work, was tired, was relaxing....

(I am not lazy btw, I work 0.6, commute, do most of the childcare and are currently finishing off a postgrad course. I tend to do most of the laundry and cooking, although we do have a cleaner. I think however he tends to view me as fundamentally a bit lazy, untidy and doing things 'wrong' as I do things differently to him.)

The other thing is, every so often I want to let off a tiny bit of steam, but I am never 'allowed' to....I try to be very up-beat, cheerful but sometimes if I describe what i think is an an unreasonable incident, he will often as not say that is fairly reasonable, there shouldn't have been a problem. So for example, he comes home, asks how our day has been and I begin telling him about an incident I had that day. He will say that I am 'moaning', deny that there should have been any kind of problem and repeat back what i have said in an exaggerated and huffy fashion, using a kind of pretend posh voice (I have a v. mild RP accent). The same goes for my occasional 'I'm feeling exhausted/fed up/need a cup of tea' type moments - he will often mimic me back 'Ohh, I am Soooo Taaahhhd/ 'Ahhhmm simply gahhhsping for a cup of teeeee' (falsetto Joanna Lumley type voice) etc. Is there a way to nip this in the bud?

If you are still with me, the other big one is silence. The silent treatment. If we have any kind of minor row he will give me the silent treatment for up to five days or a week, until I crack. Don't know what to do about this. To be honest, that is why I tend to avoid rows.

The thing is, it isn't all bad. We have a lovely DS, are blessed with good health, a great lifestyle, I love my job and I have just about enough time to develop my other interests. I am robust enough to take the tiny bits of rough with the smooth, most of the time. I am not ready to end the relationship, although I might do one day. But I would like any tips to tackle these particular issues in the meantime.

Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 12/08/2014 16:12

Oh and (I forgot) you're also supposed to do all of this while emotionally supporting him but existing on no emotional support yourself.

CookieMonsterIsHot · 12/08/2014 16:15

Why would you have to sell the house?

Isn't it normal for the parent doing the parenting to get the house? He still pays though.

What did the solicitor say?

BranchingOut · 12/08/2014 16:17

Cookie, I am afraid that the sums just would not add up in terms of maintaining the place, plus maintaining DH if separated. The solicitor suggested that we could go for a uneven split eg. 60:40, to reflect my lower earning potential, which might just enable me to buy somewhere with a small mortgage.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 12/08/2014 16:18

For me this is what a relationship should be:

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/relationships-in-a-nutshell-co-pilots-drivers-passengers-and-the-importance-of-a-joint-agenda/

Yes all of those things you state are important, but other things are vital too, respect (for you as a person, ie not making fun of you, so this is "politeness" but also respect for you personally, your opinions/views, trust, genuine admiration - the last one does wonders for your self esteem), support, particularly emotional support (probably the most vital!), to be able to trust that person to be your advocate, to know that if for some reason you couldn't speak/act they could speak/act for you and you could trust them to say/do something which is acceptable to you.

BranchingOut · 12/08/2014 16:33

I normally try not to think about all this, as I find that my work is already cut out being a mother, working, studying, trying to meet commitments, get some enjoyment into our lives....When things are going smoothly I just say 'Yay!' and get on with life, but I am currently feeling tired, under pressure (big deadline coming up) and a bit low so it is helpful to let some of it out....not to mention helpful to read your responses.

OP posts:
FantasticButtocks · 12/08/2014 16:37

Hi OP. How sad your posts are. It seems you have been worn down and are prepared to settle for this unloving marriage if you can just tweak it bit. Sad

I was going to suggest you go to counselling yourself to try to address your own issues, i.e. what it is inside you that doesn't think you are worth more. But then I saw this: I also had individual counselling for about six months. Did it help at all? Would you think of doing this for yourself again, perhaps with a different counsellor? Because the way I see it, you know none of this is right but are having trouble imagining yourself in a better place. Sort of sticking with the devil you know.

BUT, your little boy is going to learn what adult relationships look like from the one being modelled to him now. It is all very well not thinking you are worth better, but I am sure you would hope for better for your son.

All I want is companionship, a bit of affection, co-parenting, politeness and a sex life. See, even without all the passionate love etc, you are not getting the above. The thing you have missed out on that list is a bit of respect. It sounds as though when you stand up to him and say you are near to leaving point, he then starts crying and begging and being a victim.

Please have a look at this link about the Karpman triangle as applied to relationship roles. It is all about the Victim, Rescuer and Persecutor roles and how people move between those in a relationship. Very interesting and might help.

Iflyaway · 12/08/2014 18:59

You say you got together very young.
So you never had a chance to establish an independent "you".

You sound lovely and it makes me sad that you are being treated by the man who should be cherishing you so shoddily.

I think a good idea to find a new counsellor. You need outside confirmation (as you are getting now, here) that you - and DC - deserve so much better.

You have started to put a change into motion by posting on here, onwards and upwards from now on!

tipsytrifle · 12/08/2014 19:13

Please please forgive me BranchingOut but currently you sound about 159 yrs old yet your nic suggests huge movement and emotional ambition.

I really think that you have a few stale crumbs thrown your way along with a lot of closet misogyny. You think these whispers of times past resemble companionship, a bit of affection, co-parenting, politeness and a sex life ...

The table of life? Should be passionate, equal, diverse, joyful ... and yeah to all the mundane stuff too but ... *sigh .. just not what you describe as being your environment ...

Sorry if this is too full-on .. what you describe is suffocating to everything that's precious about Life ... *wince ...

Maybe you have more adventure left in you than you realise? Maybe comfort-zones aren't always nourishing or pleasant ....

I'm sure i have said way too much and i apologise if it's excessive ... your post moved me ...

Twinklestein · 12/08/2014 19:27

Are these the crumbs from the table of life? The great banquet of love, marriage and relationships that we enter into in our teens and only push our chairs away from when we die. Or are they actually worth something in their own right?

I would say: don't expect Mr Darcy, do expect someone who treats you well with respect, kindness, consideration on a daily basis.

Your husband fails the basic decency test, he is clearly not interested in you at all, this may be because he doesn't like you or because he's not interested in anyone apart from himself. Who cares why. He's an arsehole with whom life is simply too short to spend time.

thestamp · 12/08/2014 19:44

Is there a way to nip this in the bud?

this is no longer in the bud. this is disrespectful nastiness, dare I say it abuse, in full foul flower.

if you told me he did the mimicking thing, like, once, and it was a year ago, that would be bad enough. every few WEEKS? that is a horrible abusive atmosphere for you to be in, OP.

A big theme of his has been resenting my unequal contribution to our finances. We would have to put the house on the market and separate when it sold.

He can go and tell that to a court and see how they feel. The fact is he has had childcare/family life/household sorted because of you. If he wanted to marry a high earner who works FT, then he should have shopped around for a better deal for himself! That or he can hire himself a ft housekeeper.

BookABooSue · 12/08/2014 19:57

All I want is companionship, a bit of affection, co-parenting, politeness and a sex life

^^ You don't have extensive demands but your DP isn't even meeting them. He's created a hierarchy at home which puts his needs at the top. It's not clear to me if your DS comes above you or not but I'm guessing (because your DP sounds like an abusive misogynist ) that your DS probably comes above you but well below your DP.

You may be resigned to settling for a life of crumbs but do you really want to teach your DS that he can only aspire to crumbs too?

tribpot · 12/08/2014 20:30

This is meant to be a partnership for life. And that means it has to endure in tough times. You can barely get through the good times. You both have jobs, you're both well, your ds is doing great.

He's already bailed once and you've effectively had to pretend not to remember that in order to keep going. What's next? In my group of friends and colleagues who are all in the same school year (so all currently 42) we've had a brain tumour, a heart attack, and alcoholism - and that's just the things I know about. Would your marriage survive any of those events? Or less serious things like a redundancy. Because if it wouldn't, don't wait to have it fail at the same time as dealing with one of those things.

He doesn't love you. He doesn't like you. He doesn't like women. And I don't think he is in this for the long haul.

AskBasil · 12/08/2014 20:31

LTB

Seriously.

You don't have to live with this shit.

It's really not obligatory.

You and your DH are role modelling really shit relationships to your children. Why would that be considered valuable and worth hanging on to? Seriously.

ptumbi · 13/08/2014 06:50

Op, you are making one excuse after another. It's not always like this; is because I'm low ATM; he only does it every few weeks; he's a 'good mimic' (wtAf?);I wouldn't have enough to live on; we'd have to sell the house.... And on, and on, and on.

cheminotte · 13/08/2014 07:58

OP - do you really want to spend another 40 years like this? And have your son treat you with contempt too? I really think you would be happier single.

BranchingOut · 13/08/2014 09:29

Thanks for all the posts.

I particularly appreciate posters who have responded to what I am attempting to say about love/emotions, which I probably haven't given this enough time/energy/thought before. i.e. is it right or reasonable to give up on love and being loved?

ptumbi I said in my OP that I am not ready to leave yet. However, I am not ruling it out and have a plan for how it might happen/work. The things I have said are not excuses but are the factual answers to questions that have been asked eg. selling the house.

The bit about modelling behaviour is the main thing that gives me pause for thought.

OP posts:
GoatsDoRoam · 13/08/2014 11:59

is it right or reasonable to give up on love and being loved?

Maybe it's just me, but this question sounds a lot like "is it right or reasonable to give up on my own integrity?"

Twinklestein · 13/08/2014 12:23

It's neither right nor reasonable to give up on love and being loved based solely on your experience with one man who's no good at it.

It's a bit like giving up on art on the basis of Hitler's mediocre efforts.

One shit lover/artist does not negate the amazing stuff out there.

StandsOnGoldenSands · 13/08/2014 12:49

Two things which are both trite but perhaps relevant.

Firstly, giving and recieving love with others starts with loving yourself. It sounds as though you don't quite feel that you deserve that, OP. So there is something you could perhaps work on - feeling as though you deserve to be loved.

Secondly, nobody has said it yet but it's a MN motto. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
He is showing you OP. He is showing you very clearly.
Don't try to change people, the only person you can change is yourself.

Squidstirfry · 13/08/2014 15:51

Giving up on love is one thing (v sad thing) but it sounds as though you are considering staying with this man who deliberately and agressively makes you feel unloved and unloveable. This is worse. Your emotional needs are nothing to him.

It's not like some neutral ground where there is a lack of love between you. You have a damaging and negative relationship where he gets by on putting you down.

Twinklestein · 13/08/2014 15:57

To follow squid it feels like you're giving up on love purely because you think you lack the strength to get away from him.

BookABooSue · 13/08/2014 19:06

I think it's about more than 'giving up on love' tbh. Living with someone who is dismissive slowly erodes your confidence and self-esteem. Knowing what they're doing, doesn't really protect you from it.

SolidGoldBrass · 14/08/2014 20:00

Romantic love is not essential. The belief that it is necessary is what keeps women in shit relationships. Being single is a million times better than living with someone who treats you with contempt and cruelty.
If you dump this horrible man (and please do) find yourself some counselling and commit to at least a year of being single. Women who have binned one abuser unfortunately sometimes move on to another, of a different kind eg this man mocks you, stonewalls you and belittles you, so you might choose as your next partner a man who is fundamentally lazy, or sexually predatory (either constant infidelity or constant mauling of your body and coercing you into sex acts you dislike or don't want at the time he requests them). You might even pick a violent man who describes himself as 'passionate', because it will be different from your previous experience.

But the only way to be sure your next relationship is a healthy, life-enhancing one is not to enter into a relationship at all until you are so happy as a single person that you know only a very good man is worth changing your single status for.

Glabella · 14/08/2014 21:27

I think love is important. Not the childish fairytale love that you have given up on, but a strong foundation of friendship, mutual respect and shared goals. It doesn't sound like you have this.
I'm a doctor, and see people in many situations and it's taught me that settling for someone who isn't right is a bad idea. Nobody knows what might happen in life. If you became suddenly ill or disabled would you want it to be him who cared for you? If he became ill would you give up your career to care for him? I've seen people in both of these situations, knowing they are with the wrong people. I know it is morbid and perhaps a strange way of looking at it, but what finally made.me leave my husband was an acquaintance whose husband was diagnosed with dementia at 40. She had been very unhappy in the marriage, thought about leaving and he was not a nice man, but she ended up trapped being his carer, hugely resentful. It was such a sad situation but really reminded me that life is too short to be with somebody who treats you badly.

tipsytrifle · 17/08/2014 08:33

I'm not even sure that the concept of "giving up" is worthwhile or valid as it adds a negative aspect to what is actually a positive act of will. Leaving a bad situation, or rejecting one that is not healthy nourishing and fulfilling is a statement of integrity and assertiveness. It is a huge Positive. It is walking away from something bad towards something good.

Easy to say from a distance though *wince. But then, that's why we ask the opinion of others ...

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