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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Completely lost.

46 replies

havenoideawhattodo · 11/08/2014 10:24

I've hopefully NC for this. I've been a member on here for a while.

This is probably going to be long, and I am absolutely exhausted so if I do not reply immediately it's because I'm existing on minimal sleep.

I grew up in an emotionally neglectful environment - my Dad is the trigger issue in my back history. Cheated on my Mum, left us floundering and told me after a suicide attempt that he was 'sick of my bullshit' - in the decade that he went and married his now wife I've seen him a handful of times and have had NC on my insistence since last year, as I realised he didn't care and me chasing a relationship that would never happen was a big part of my self esteem and emotional issues.

I'm an emotional person, creative, talkative, thinker - I respond well to people who are open, approachable and calm talkers. That said, I have an enormous amount of hatred towards myself and alternate between thinking I have recovered, and feeling like I will kill myself and I actively engage in self harm on a regular basis. I am on medication and have had therapy.

Been with my DP for nearly 3 years. He owns his own home (bought last year) and I'm supposed to be 'living' here. I couldn't be put on the mortgage as I wasn't working due to MH issues - I have/had borderline personality disorder but was discharged from CMHT last month saying I no longer meet the criteria, but they suspected all along it could be bipolar rather than BPD. Inefficient case coordinator who left and I've been left too. We've lived together since we were about a year into our relationship, but I left in February 2013 to stay back with my Mum as I had a breakdown. I tried to commit suicide on two attempts. At this stage nobody knew the nature of my illness and DP decided to bury his head in the sand and work harder and longer and although was still around, was emotionally unavailable.

During that period I had asked him to help me recover by doing certain things that I was told may help. I was engaged in therapy with a good psychologist who was helping me change the pattern of my destructive behaviour through objectivity and I asked my DP if he could learn with me. I spent many many hours over a number of months relearning how to see things, how to speak about things and identifiying when things were not good and how to change them. I ended up staying with him more often than not, trying to build a base in his home because he always said he wanted it to be 'our home'.

DP works very hard - I earn a tiny bit of money too. I do all the housework and cooking, and make sure that when he comes home we are able to relax together, as we do not see each other as often as most couples due to his working hours. He always makes sure we have food to eat etc etc. We do have some disposable income and we sometimes use it but it is usually on his terms. He has decided to accept my flaws - I am a very passionate person and I suppose quite needy in some ways, although from speaking with other people I don't think I'm much different. My pattern of thinking is not normal and I'm very distrustful of nearly everybody. I do not deal with stress well and I have been and can be an emotional liability - self harming, breakdowns, medicated and psychotic(ish) episodes.

My emotions however, seem to be largely responsive to the way my DP reacts to me. At the moment, although he is claiming that he wants me to feel stable and secure in 'our' home, he is also the sole homeowner, wage earner and should he decide at 2pm that he no longer wants me in this house, he can effectively get rid of me with minimal effort. I own nothing in this house of any worth, and I also have nowhere other than my Mum's to go to. There is no joint savings or investments and I have very little of my own money to assume any kind of independent life should it happen. He knows this. This happened to my Mum when my Dad left - except they did have joint accounts that he was in serious amounts of debt to, and when they sold the martial house it went to clearing the debts he had incurred unknown to my Mum (she was of a different generation).

So, I want to get married. I do love my DP - I have accepted he is unromantic. I have accepted that he does not do gestures of love. I have learnt that if I want something, chances are there are conditions attached and that I should never get my hopes up too much (he's a goalpost changer). I have even accepted that in order to get married, we would have to go for the bare minimum because DP doesn't like to be the center of attention. I've spent my entire life waiting on the sidelines to feel something special and I recognise that my DP just isn't somebody that likes to make a show of things, even if it was for one day. DP says he wants to get married - at the top of the year he said we'd get engaged this year (although he did say that last year). But I just don't think he will.

At the start of the year, I wanted to get some things changed so I knew that he would commit to something. I wanted to know legally what my options were, so I wasn't presented with the same situation that my Mum was. I wanted him to learn with me, what I was doing in therapy so we could have a better relationship together. I said date nights, even those without costs, would be nice - we've spent the last year spending most of our time on this bloody house. I said that the little things, like the things I do for him (making his favourite meal, going out of my way to make his life easier) would be appreciated. But he just doesn't get it. He has said time and time again that I should 'wait' for this changes to happen. That we WILL get engaged, and I need to stop trying to plan this wedding thing without it because he says the more I try and 'force' this, the least likely he is to do it. Each time this ends in an argument - I have used all my therapy tools to try and have a calm conversation with him about where we stood as each time we argue, nothing gets resolved and I feel hurt and ignored. But he gets defensive, dismissive - tells me how I feel is stupid, that me thinking he is stalling is silly and that he doesn't want this conversation again and again. I get that. I just want it resolved. I want to either get married to someone I do love and see that ability to commit, or for us to civilly part and get on with our lives - we're both 30 and I spent my 20's wasting my life due to my MH issues.

The arguments are brutal. He loses his temper which I fully understand and will throw things. I do the same. I feel misunderstood, dismissed, pathetic and stupid. I end up spending the aftermath of an argument trying to appease him - cooking, cleaning, being kind, keeping my mouth shut to my feelings and then after a week, I end up feeling like he is being complacent. He says he is not. He says I am seeing things that aren't there.

We are now at breaking point, although he won't admit to it. I left on Friday to go back to my Mum's - I had told him during the week that unless I could see something that made me believe that he actually understood what it was I was saying about needing to feel stable/secure, I would leave. And I did. This is normally something I want to do and sometimes say, but I've been blackmailed to stay; he's stopped me from getting on trains (I don't drive), cried and cried and I've felt guilty so have stopped talking and sometimes, I just get so wound up and frustrated that I end up falling asleep through exhaustion and then I just feel I have no strength. Yesterday I came back here for that reason - he has accepted no responsibilty in any of this, and me leaving was entirely my fault and I have messed things up. He said if I wanted this relationship and I wanted these changes, I had to come back. So I did, after two days. I've felt in a crisis since - I can't self harm when he's around because he's said if I do it, he'll harm himself to show me it's not appropriate.

I haven't slept properly, nor eaten. I've cried, I've screamed, I'm sitting here in some kind of catatonic state writing my life away because I just don't know what to do anymore. I just want him to show me these things he says he feels. I can't see why he's stalling - he's not getting anything out of it. I'm always to blame - it's always my fault. I can't trust my emotions/feelings anymore because of my MH condition - it's unravelling and all the monsters are returning and I don't know whether what I feel is true, or my brain is manipulating me. Or whether my DP is manipulating me. He's not abusive - I've wondered whether he's emotionally abusive but none of this 'abuse' comes unless we're arguing or he feels defensive. I can throw insults around too. I try not to but I just get so frustrated - I've spent so much time learning how to control these demons in my head. He went to work this morning, during this crisis, leaving me in bed. I don't feel safe. I know I'll self harm at some point and there is little point telling DP about it because he'll say "Oh well, I have come home now don't I - no choice" - what is the point? I didn't want to speak to his this morning - it'll just descend into an argument, so I blocked him on FB and whatsapp. He can call/text, but he won't - he'll bury his head in the sand at work and hope that when he comes home at 5pm that I'll be right as rain.

I'm sorry for this post length. There is so much more I could say. I feel I can't leave him - he's not an abusive bully, he's not a bad person - he's accepted me for what I am - I understand why he's not romantic and dismissive but I cannot accept why I've had to change so many behaviours to make this relationship work, but he's not prepared to match my commitment. He's sweet and kind to me and he always tells me how beautiful I am. He holds me throughout my psychosis episodes and night terrors but then he dismisses and alienates me. I am so utterly confused. I want it to work, I do.

Please ask objective questions - probing ones. I don't want to do him a discredit because even though I'm hurt and angry and confused, I feel it isn't fair to make him out to be something he's not, especially when he doesn't have the opportunity to explain his side. I want to try and be as objective as possible in order to get workable advice, if that makes sense.

Thanks. x

OP posts:
Isetan · 11/08/2014 13:28

This relationship isn't working because ultimately you two aren't compatible. You're trying to hard and I understand why but your need to, underlines your fundamental differences.

Having a relationship with you requires more input than he is prepared to give. Yeah he sometimes makes the right noises but that's all they are, noises. You can not prioritise your mental health while trying to maintain a relationship that is a threat to your emotional well being.

BelleOfTheBorstal · 11/08/2014 14:05

haven but he doesn't know how to deal with it and by claiming that he does is a patent untruth.
If he is worried about you when you try and leave/get away from him, then he should be getting a professional involved. It is not his place to intervene.
The whole engagement thing is about controlling you and keeping you unbalanced.
Stop listening to what he is saying to you and start paying attention to his actions.
They will give you a much clearer idea of what is going on inside his head.
I have had similar issues to you and I was in a similar relationship. I left him and my day to day existence is so much easier as a consequence.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 11/08/2014 14:45

I sometimes feel like he's using my pattern of behaviour against me.

apparently I don't have the right to make a decision?

If he really were a 'normal' functioning member of society I don't think he'd enjoy wielding such power over you.

He has an answer for everything, I'm not sure they're the right answers.

Is there any way your DM or someone from home could come and fetch you?

SolidGoldBrass · 11/08/2014 16:27

Please bear in mind that even if your partner was a normal, decent person and your discomfort with him purely an effect of mental illness that doesn't make him your owner. You still have the right to end the relationship, for any reason whatsoever, even if it's a 'wrong' reason.
I don't think he is a normal, decent person at all. I think he is manipulative and abusive and it's important to him that you stay 'crazy' because then he can act the big hero.

thestamp · 11/08/2014 18:02

you want to be able to get validation from him that it is OK and acceptable that you want to end the relationship. this is a common feeling for people with BPD. but it is an illusion. you do not need his validation, approval, support, or even his vague agreement that it is OK for you to leave him. YOU can decide to leave him. his feelings about it are not important. YOU are the one who is responsible for YOU, and HE is responsible for HIM. if he tries to tell you otherwise, he is simply talking shit.

you say you left last time without telling him and it descended into an online fight -- that means you entertained communication, so the channels were open for him to continue manipulating you. i can appreicate that you are still desperately seeking validation for your choices from him, so that you can calm the feelings that are raging inside you. the plain truth is though, that he can't help you. he will never help you. it is in his interests that you remain unstable and therefore constantly seeking his support/approval. you need to break this cycle of dependence on him.

if you want this to stop: end the relationship, send him a letter via registered post telling him not to contact you again on pain of legal action, do not contact him, do not answer his calls or open his messages, and call the police if he tries to contact you. and start rebuilding your life.

you need to let go of the idea that he will be your ally here. he has emotionally abused you, that is obvious; he has also physically abused you, by restraining you "for your own safety" (that is a crock of shit btw - he ought to have rung 999 if that was his real motivation). this needs to end and since he is an abuser, he is NOT going to help you end it. YOU need to end it.

pack up your things, go to your mum, phone the mental health team and get back into treatment, and never ever allow this man into your life ever again.

you are 30 years old. you have quite a lot of time to find a lovely man in the future. do not settle for this bullshit.

havenoideawhattodo · 11/08/2014 18:20

Thank you all for the replies.

He came home about half an hour ago pretending like everything was normal and what did I want for tea/what have I been up to today - I'm trying very hard to not rise to his bait but it's hard.

He also knows I post on here. It wouldn't surprise me if he found it - he's very tech savvy. If I alter my way of speaking to him to reflect a more strong mindset, he'll know I've had advice or empowerment elsewhere and would naturally assume here because I don't have that many places I can go to get it. He knows this laptop password because if I was to change it, he'd accuse me of trying to hide something from him (to be fair, I would say the same back to him) like infidelity or something I have done wrong.

He will, of course, say everything that he doesn't agree with is bollocks and that you all cannot know what is best for me because you don't know me like he knows me. I considered showing him for a second because I thought him being able to read my words without my emotional behaviour spilling out in speech may be beneficial - but it wouldn't; he'll say he wants to read it for it to 'help' but it would just be to get a heads up on the way my brain is working, presumably for him to dismiss it. Whatever reinforces his opinion will be right, and whatever is telling me to go or that he's an EA/prick will be wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if he made a log on here and went batshit crazy at everyone.

It's an hours drive to my Mum's - my best friend doesn't drive and my brother is at work. I can't go whilst he's here, and if I did go, a repeat of the weekend would occur. He also knows exactly where my Mum, brother, best friends/other friends live - the only option to be truly away from him finding me would be to check into a hotel - I have a credit card and have considered it, but I know being alone with these thoughts would ultimately cause me more harm than good and would result in SH or other recklessness. It's so difficult to try and explain just how hard leaving would be - I keep sitting here and thinking 'just go, get up and go and turn your phone off and check into a hotel' like I would tell the countless people I've spoken to in the past, yet I am completely paralysed from doing it. I considered flying out of the country but I know I couldn't do that either - I couldn't be alone in a foreign place after all this.

Most of all, I'd worry about him - I know it sounds perverse, but I have seen the emotional toll this has on him. Whether or not it's a game (and I don't think it is) - he's human and if he was to come to harm because he's got himself worked up, I'd never forgive myself. I don't want that - as much as this situation is totally shit and I feel like shit, during therapy my psychiatrist said something like - "We can only behave the way we have learnt to behave based on our past experiences - it's not helpful to blame others because we've all learnt it from somewhere" - it was actually about forgiving my father - he could only father us in the way he thought was appropriate. DP is very much like his Dad in many respects.

This is all just me babbling on. Thank you for all the replies Thanks

OP posts:
FreudianGymSlip · 11/08/2014 18:23

Don't show him this thread OP. Just don't. I was going to ask you if he knows you come here.

Please stay safe.

havenoideawhattodo · 11/08/2014 18:24

Sorry, I meant to say that I can cover my tracks online and I can change that password, but that he's savvy enough to find out anyway. I hope he doesn't.

OP posts:
DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 11/08/2014 18:57

The more you write the more worrisome it sounds. Don't go out of your way to show him this thread.

thestamp · 11/08/2014 19:00

during therapy my psychiatrist said something like - "We can only behave the way we have learnt to behave based on our past experiences - it's not helpful to blame others because we've all learnt it from somewhere" - it was actually about forgiving my father - he could only father us in the way he thought was appropriate. DP is very much like his Dad in many respects.

If his dad is a manipulative abuser, and he is a manipulative abuser, then the correct response from you is to end the relationship.

the emotions you are feeling that tell you the contrary are actual symptoms of your illness. your brain is used to his abuse and is addicted to seeking approval, and like a gambling addict who is addicted to chasing a win, you are trying to find reasons why it is OK to continue chasing this man's love and approval.

i mean this extremely kindly, you are mentally ill and require help and support. you are NOT able to help ANOTHER person with significant MH issues, no matter whether those issues are his fault or not. even if you had the training to help, you would not be able to, because there is a reason that MH professionals do not treat their own SOs...

i can appreciate that you are very bound up emotionally in this, but these are the facts:

  1. you are not well.
  2. he makes you feel worse (whether he means to or not, or whether he is saying things that are 100% true, or 100% false, whatever, he is still making you feel worse).
  3. you cannot help him not make you feel worse. YOU need help to not feel worse, and he is not able to give you that help.

you need to get up and leave.

i'll be blunt. if you would like to be extremely unhappy and at risk of suicide/SH, then stay where you are.

if you would like to have a chance at health, leave.

if his happiness is more important to you than you being alive and/or unharmed, then by all means, continue. it is ultimately up to you. it is always a shame when women actively sabotage their own lives, but it is their choice, of course.

thestamp · 11/08/2014 19:08

If I alter my way of speaking to him to reflect a more strong mindset

this implies that you are going to use the advice on this thread to try to change your situation at home, by talking to him, or standing up for yourself, or whatever.

please understand: the only way this relationship will improve is by ending it.

and by ending it, i mean getting up and leaving without telling him a word. and involving the police if he pursues you in any way.

if he has already read this thread, there is a good chance he may seriously harm you in an effort to keep you from making a break.

DO NOT talk to him about ANYTHING. Do not show a whisper of dissent, do not argue, do not try to get your point across, DO NOT indulge your destructive impulses.

do the right thing for yourself and just get up and LEAVE. go to the hotel and then tomorrow, or the day after, go to your Mum. it doesn't matter if he knows where that is; 999 if he shows up. end of.

havenoideawhattodo · 11/08/2014 19:13

Thestamp - I agree with you. My speaking of him compassionately is largely to make me confident that I have expressed a human side to him. I see the vilification of BPD sufferers and that we manipulate situations to suit our own agendas.. Therefore, it is important for me to try and give a more rounded view point so I cannot have that used against me, as I know it would (by DP and others who think they know my pattern of thinking).

I do love him. I wanted it to work out because I felt it was the first shot I had at stability. Everyone liked him, everyone felt we were a good couple. But I also have taken everything you have said on board and I know he is contributing to why I feel unwell; not wholly responsible, but enough for it to be an issue. I also know that if I was away from him and able to feel he wouldn't jepodise that and accept it, I would get better. I did it before, after suicide attempts where he buried his head in the sand to cope - I did a lot of my coping alone and recovery alone.

It won't be easy but I owe it my own recovery to get out.

OP posts:
havenoideawhattodo · 11/08/2014 19:18

No no, what I meant is that if I present a stronger front to him, he will notice that something is different. Not that I am trying to change the situation - me trying to be strong is to prevent an argument. Me being strong was not giving into my recklessness that he could then manipulate in order to 'save me' - he is expecting me to be morose and depressed and for me to want comfort. If I assume the 'it's okay I can get through this' if only to prevent arguments, he will notice something has changed. If he notices that, which he will, he will then assume I have spoken to other people to gather this strength - that's what I meant about my concerns that he knows I post on here.

I am so tired and I know I am sounding more disjointed by each post.

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 11/08/2014 20:01

You poor girl. THis man is a total shit and potentially dangerous. I think you might actually be well served by ringing the police DV unit and/or women's aid for help.

tipsytrifle · 11/08/2014 20:02

havenoidea - please relax, dear heart. Though i guess this obsessional justify/explore/explain aspect is part of you?

Your best shot at stability is with and in YOU ... truly and honestly. Don't try and mind-game him out of your life or pretend that it's ok to have a quiet life of pretence ... living a lie is no way to find the truth.

Shakespeare wrote via Polonius "to thine own self be true" .. more grist to the mill that Shakey was a woman but that's by the by ...

I happen to agree totally with thestamp

Perhaps you will burn yourself down to your embers and then, when you need to re-kindle, you will see that you can drop him out of your life kindly and completely. If he is a problem after, then he must be dealt with after. But there needs to be a break-point for the Now. Are you there yet?

tipsytrifle · 11/08/2014 20:03

Talking to WA also occurred to me as a way to proceed ...

havenoideawhattodo · 11/08/2014 20:32

The justify/explain aspect is definitely a part of me - I guess as I have always been told to justify my actions and be objective.

I have a feeling he has read either emails I have sent to a friend or this thread as he is now saying if I want to go I can go. He won't take me home and I don't want him to because I will give in when I fear him driving me there. He has also continued to say that I have to accept that I have messed this up and not he and that if I had just waited a little longer I would have got what I wanted.

I am going to contact WA tomorrow; although I fear that they will think I am being dramatic or otherwise, especially if I have to explain my MH past. I am prepared for that, but it doesn't make it any easier to hear because I do believe he is a risk in some way. I know that if I have courage of my convictions he will eventually give up - he hasn't got it in him to counteract my courage when I am strong and would rather pretend it isn't happening or brush it away as nothing.

This has been a very helpful sounding board - I do have good friends and family, but I cannot get the opinion I think is unbiased or neutral enough there. I appreciate the considered replies and am grateful. I may also call the CMHT tomorrow to get an opinion on how to proceed in their eyes.

I know ultimately most people who know us will consider the issue to be me - as I am the one with the illness. I have always been the 'odd' one that people pity in sorts and assume I cannot function normally so this will be no different; people will roll their eyes and assume I messed up again. I have to suck that up - but it's annoying for sure.

Thanks
OP posts:
thestamp · 11/08/2014 20:54

if anyone gives you shit or even makes you feel slightly unsure wrt your MH issues "causing" all this --

this is the thing. your illness is a reality of your life. any relationships you are in will either survive it, or not. YOU cannot MAKE a relationship work if you are simply too ill or too in need of intervention to make a go of it.

let's say the worst is true and all this is your fault.
does it really matter?
can you really "do better" i.e. snap your fingers and make all the feelings go away, pretend you aren't feeling dismissed and belittled, etc. etc?
no, of course you can't. neither can he, if the reverse is true and it's all his fault, iyswim.

who cares if it's all your fault!! i don't think it is, but hey, let's pretend it is. is the outcome not still the same? you two do not make each other happy unless you are trying to be who you are not. him romantic and attentive and committed, you without any expectations of good treatment. are you two really going to transform into those people? no of course not. you are both fully formed adults, 30 years of age, and you are not happy together, in fact it sounds like you make each other dreadfully unhappy and unhealthy to boot.

so get rid, get well, and start over with someone with whom you have a chance. someone who IS attentive, loving, obviously committed, who makes you feel heard and valued, etc. etc.

does that make sense?
what i'm trying to say is, when you are in such a muddle, there is a propensity to try to make sense of it all, lay blame, etc. but IT DOESN'T MATTER. honestly. what matters is, it's all making you so unhappy, to the point of SH. and you've put a lot into it. so be kind to both you and him, and have the courage to end it.

tipsytrifle · 11/08/2014 20:58

Not only is it annoying if that's what people think of you ... it's a judgement call that no-one has the right to make. We're all entitled to our triumphs and mistakes, there's no judgement required ... just support and help picking out the jewels from the broken glass ...

and recognising the danger of living in a jumbled up heap of both ...

People who know you as an "us" know little to nothing of you as a You, i suspect ...

Good idea to call CMHT. Also consider WA as a realistic option ...

tipsytrifle · 11/08/2014 21:00

rather than thinking of them as a new set of judgements ... *bleh .. posted before done ...

BelleOfTheBorstal · 12/08/2014 12:06

You don't have to explain or justify yourself, in regards to ending it.
He is never going to be the person you hoped he was, being with him makes you desperately unhappy, that is the only reason you need.
As for other people, I know as a bpd sufferer, you desperately seek validation but one of thw skills you should have learnt through DBT, is self-validation, this looks like it could be an amazing opportunity to practice that.
Don't worry about what other people think, they will never know the details of the situation, in the way that you do.
Please do get in touch with womens aid. Hope you are having a better day today.

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