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Original poster

getting a residency order / this is all a bit of a mess

22 replies

justiceofthePeas · 07/08/2014 10:53

Have just found out even though I am de facto rp I may not be able to take dcs on holiday without a letter from x.

X and I have 2 dc but were never married or really cohabiting. We own our own houses so there was nothing to sort out.
When we split because of his EA, the dc remained with me. There was no question of them going with him.
He sees them for a few hours a week at most and not very regularly. He refuses overnights (to punish me) but he does pay CM.

Because there was no legal separation, there is no formal contact agreement (although I would not object to one) and no residency order or whatever they are called now as these are only supposed to be applied for where parties cannot agree.

He is on bc and therefore has PR. They have his surname.
However, in practise due to his lack of interest I make all the decisions regarding dc and always did.

he is not on the extreme end of the abuse scale by any means but I don't allow him in my house, I keep conversation to a minimum and I don't like him have any levers or control over my life.

So, although he may well sign if I were taking kids on holiday he may not and I don't want to give him that power over us.

Can I get a residency order in Scotland without having to involve him or will it have to go to mediation etc.?

OP posts:

Original poster

justiceofthePeas · 07/08/2014 21:08

Bumping this in the hope of getting some advice

OP posts:

coalscuttle · 07/08/2014 21:14

I thought you could take them on a holiday of less than one month without requiring the other parents permission?

Everybodyleaves · 07/08/2014 21:16

Sorry, not sure. I'm in Scotland, married but separated and RP and can't take the kids out of country without STBXH agreement, and vice versa.

Don't know how it works if not married??

EarthWindFire · 07/08/2014 21:18

I thought you could take them on a holiday of less than one month without requiring the other parents permission?

I think that this is if you have a residency order which the OP doesn't.

Original poster

justiceofthePeas · 07/08/2014 21:33

That is what it looks like. You either need written permission, which leaves me at the mercy of his spite or a residency order. (Plus proof they are your children).

So I am wondering if I have to go to mediation to get ro? Is it just a matter of filling in a form or do I need a sol and to attend court.

I am not expecting him to contest it.

OP posts:

Bongobaby · 07/08/2014 21:39

I think that you may have automatic residency but not sure. Are you taking the children abroad for a while or just a week/fortnight if so could you let him know of your plans?

Bongobaby · 07/08/2014 21:41

You are seen as the daily care giver and resident parent as he is an absent parent not living in the family home

Original poster

justiceofthePeas · 07/08/2014 21:59

I think the rp thing is a given for day to day life but I still need the actual piece of paper to leave the country?

Am hoping it is just a formality and a cost to get this and not a big rigmarole.

I could ask his permission but don't want to as he is a twat and would be highly suspicious of me asking him to sign anything.

Was only planning on going for a week but apparently this can be a problem at borders.

OP posts:

Everybodyleaves · 07/08/2014 23:25

I don't think you need it written down?? I don't get or provide that.

By "at borders" do you mean immigration at airports etc?? I've travelled abroad with my 2 DCs and DP and you don't need anything over travel documents and passport...

EarthWindFire · 07/08/2014 23:32

You can as has been said on other threads get stopped at boarders.

You don't have automatic residency. Residency orders are issued through court I believe.

Everybodyleaves · 07/08/2014 23:34

Really EWF ?? Wow. Never heard of that tbh

Original poster

justiceofthePeas · 07/08/2014 23:55

Yup. I found out about it on another thread (thanks to EWF and others) but didn't want to derail that thread asking about ro.

ewf do you know from a practical pov what going to court to get an order actually entails? Is it just form stamping?

OP posts:

fedupbutfine · 08/08/2014 00:01

where are you planning on going? I have travelled abroad a few times with my children - I don't use the same surname as they do - and have never been asked or stopped or otherwise had to show any evidence that I am 'allowed' to remove them from the country. If you post which country you want to go to, people might be able to assist further with personal experience in that country?

Original poster

justiceofthePeas · 08/08/2014 00:43

Spain, Portugal or Greece.
But realistically between now and when they turn 16 it could be any number of countries.

And the problem is as likely to be whilst trying to leave (in which case ruined holiday) or enter the uk. (Although why they would wonder if you are trying to abduct your children by returning them to their country of residence is beyond me but apparently they do sometimes ask)

Hence rather than risking it, I would rather get it sorted once and for all.
I have never been asked before but the thought of getting stopped somewhere and held up with 2 small dcs to deal with sounds grim.

OP posts:

WTAF · 08/08/2014 08:14

I have a residency order in my favour for DS. I've taken it with me every time we've been abroad just in case but never been asked for it. I'm not sure how easy it is to get one on its own as mine was done as part of a custody case, so was just another order that got completed at the same time as the contact order. I'm glad I got one though, as ex disappeared completely 3 years ago so I would never be able to get his 'permission' to go away if it were needed.

The reason I asked for one was because I felt there was a threat of ex taking DS for a visit and not returning him, and with a residency order I would be able to have him returned to me much quicker if that happened. Ex's solicitor really fought it in court but the judge said if I wanted it for peace of mind, that was reason enough and if ex planned to follow the contact order it wouldn't make any difference to him anyway, and granted it to me.

EarthWindFire · 08/08/2014 08:30

ewf do you know from a practical pov what going to court to get an order actually entails? Is it just form stamping?

I'm not sure to be honest. Depends if your ex is going to dispute it or not and the courts backlog.

It is worth going to see a solicitor for a consultation and see where you stand.

Original poster

justiceofthePeas · 08/08/2014 14:05

Thanks wtaf and ewf guess solicitor it is then although I doubt he will fight it especially if it might cost hom money to do so.

From what little I could find out the court fees alone are 215 so with that plus solicitors doubt we will have enough money left for a holiday anyway!

OP posts:

coalscuttle · 11/08/2014 17:18

I went to see my solicitor this afternoon as in the process of getting divorced, and asked him about this. I'm taking DS abroad at the weekend with my friend and obv without stbxh. He says there is no need fir letters if permission etc unless there is a court order saying this is required. He says apart from anything else it would be so easy to forge a letter and impossible to police. He said if xh was suspicious and I had not bought a return ticket then obv there are processes he could go through to stop travel plans under those circs. But Children travel all the time with only one parent fir perfectly legitimate reasons. I am in England by the way.

coalscuttle · 11/08/2014 17:21

Oh and we have shared pr and no residency or other court orders. DS lives with me and does eow with xh.

MissWimpyDimple · 11/08/2014 17:32

Ex and I have a child, we have also never really lived together. There is no formal order in place. We both have PR.

I have repeatedly taken DD out of the country for periods varying up to about 1 month. He has also taken her abroad twice.

There has never been an issue or any need for extra documentation. The only thing I would advise is that if the DC do not share your surname, you may want to travel with a copy of the birth certificate.

MissWimpyDimple · 11/08/2014 17:33

I am in England btw.

lola60 · 11/08/2014 19:39

I have travelled with my dd who has her dads surname, was advised to travel with her birth cert on one holiday, glad i did as i was asked for it at border control, they looked at it and my passport to ensure i was her mum!!!

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