Am I being a bad mother?

[sunny123]

Hi, I would really appreciate any advise as I am feeling quite distressed.

I have been married since the age of 19 to an italian. We spent the first 4 or 5 years living with his parents which for me was by no means easy. My other half has never been very affetionate with me but I just kept thinking that it would get better. To cut it short things snowballed any now we have two children ages 7yrs and 18 months. Until now I have been teaching english a couple of hours here and there but have not had a steady job for a good few years. My Dh is very money orientated despite that we own our own house, he pays the morgage which he is forever throwing back at me. I could deal with the fact that he likes his dinner on the table at a certain hour but the thing I can't stand is that he is starting to completly ignore me. Should I talk to him about things he says he's not interested. After I tried speaking to him about this and how it upset me I asked him if he still loved me and he said no, which broke my heart. I no for a fact that he has no one else and he is dedicated to our children. I said to him that I think it is best that we go our own way but we decided against it for the benefit of the kids. I have no income of my own or any savings what so ever and he plays on this.

It's so frustrating, I've been thinking that there's no point moping around and have applied for a job. I received a reply that they are interested but I have to go away on a 30 day training course. Needless to say that I already feel guilty about leaving the children and I have little support from my Dh. I just feel that by getting my independance back I can return to being myself again instead of just feeling that I am disappearing. But would it be fair on the children?

bumping for you sunny123. So sorry you are having such a horrid time and hoping that those with experience/better able to reply will see this soon.

sorry you are having a tough time.

i would never leave mine for that long, esp not the younger one who has no concept of time, couldnt talk on the phone and might feel abandoned - esp if dh is not very hands on with them usually. don't mean to sound harsh, but best to be honest. you are not being a bad mum, but sound desperate, so often not the best time to make a big decision.

FWIW my friend left her 1 yr old for 2 wks and it really unsttled her dd. she really regretted it.

good luck with everything

Are you living in the UK or in Italy?.

I think you are also up against cultural differences here; in Italy it is quite normal for instance for many young people to still live with their parents in their mid 20s and even after marrying. Also many such men can be very macho and chauvanistic towards women.

What sort of job requires a 30 day training course, does this mean you will have to stay away from home for the 30 days and nights too?.

As for this comment you made:-
"I said to him that I think it is best that we go our own way but we decided against it for the benefit of the kids" you could be making a big mistake here. The children will pick up on the fact that both of you are unhappy and will blame themselves. Better to have two parents apart and happier than the kids being stuck in the middle between two people who do not love each other any more.

Why stay as well in a loveless marriage?.

This situation isn't about you being a crap mother but you being in a crap relationship.

By default you are a good mother because of how you looking for a way to get your independence. Maybe something that wouldn't require such a long training period would be better?

I am actually living in Italy and have been for the last 10 years or so. A friend of mine told me that an airline was recruiting cabin crew and that you dont have to do any over night stay outs, good money and extras. I wanted to get back with working for an english company...

Haven't read the whole thread but I am a working mum, have been since both mine were around 4 or 5 months. I was teetering on the edge of PND with DS2 and it was going back to work that saved me.

I am of the opinion that whatever is best for you is okay - I believe that the quality not the amount of time you spend with your children is what's important and a happy mum means happy children. I totally respect SAHM's but it is not for me. A lot hinges on the quality of the childcare, and I would be very sure that you look around and find a nursery/childminder that are happy with. I am very lucky to have found an excellent nursery with warm, caring and loving staff.

Nothing is irreversible or set in stone - why don't you take the job and see how you get on - IF that is what you would like to do?

I agree that it doesn't sound like you are a crap mother, just in a crap relationship. I personally wouldn't stay with my dh if there was nothing between us. I'd be miserable all the time, which in my opinion would make my dd miserable.

I agree you should get your independence back so I suppose you would need to weigh up the pros and cons of the current situation. You are clearly not happy in your relationship, you have no means of conributing to the house and your dh throws this back in your face. He has already told you that he doesn't love you and in my book, doesn't deserrve you in the first place. 30 days out of your children's whole lives in order to gain some independence and self esteem sounds like a very little amount of time, when you consider the long term benefits. Although I do sympathise that 30 days is a long time to be away from them.

Sorry to hear things aren't too good, but I hope you manage to work something out for the benefit of you and the children.

thanks i think im going to go for it!

I want to be able to feel that if I want to leave I can, something that at the moment I don't. My kids are the most important thing to me so if I decide to end the manage I want to be able to offer them stability.

Thanks for answering so quickly, it's nice to know there are people who care.x

sunny, could your mother come over and stay with dh and the kids whilst you're away? Could the eldest take a month off school and you leave both in the UK with grandparents whilst you train.

Please go and see an Italian lawyer and find out what you're entitled to (maintenance, housing etc) if you file for divorce. If he is a devoted dad, he'll make a point of being there for his kids even after divorce. I think under Italian law, he is obliged to support you all if you divorce. You really need to know where you stand. He has the money he has because you were at home looking after the kids and it was POSSIBLE for him to go out and accumulate wealth. It belongs to you jointly so hold your head up and don't take any crap from anyone.

I'm concerned what he might do whilst you're away for a month and the kids are with him. I don't like the sound of him so please be careful.

Good for you! Good luck!

I suspect it won't help the marriage if you leave an Italian man for 30 days who isn't used to it to manage an 18 month old etc I would have said yes go back to full time work but the 30 days apart sounds a lot. Could you get back for long weekends in between though? That might not be so bad and may be the 18 month year old is used to be being in a nursery or with grandparents already?

On the relationship side that is very sad. Can you not try counselling? Will he say why he doesn't speak to you? If you worked he might not resent paying all the bills and he might find he has more to talk to you about.

Message withdrawn

God, I feel like I'm going mad here. Unfortunately I have no family back in england that I can count on. The only family I have lives in canada. I'm half canadian, but my father passed away when I was two. I think this is one of the reasons why I don't want to break my family up, but the idea of living the rest of my life with someone who desn't love me is torture. He is now saying that he didn't actually say that he doesn't love me anymore but that he doesn't love me the way he used to, I mean what am I supposed to say to that?! He went on to say that it's best to be honest, which apparently I'm not. I just don't know what to feel. I still care about him and wouldn't wish him any harm but I think it's probably turned into a more of a brotherly love, it's hard to xplain. He was my first boyfriend and I was quite naive back then. I used to let him take charge of everything. A while back he said to me that I was so lucky that I met him, otherwise god knows where I would have ended up. He said it laughing. The thing is he thinks that he has rescued me some how. Despite that fact that I had a bad relationship with my mother I hae always been determined to make something of my life with or without him and it hurts to think that he thinks so little of me.

Money is a big issue with him and i've lost count how many times we have argued about it. He doesn't want to know about councelling and despite all this he goes on as if everyting is fine. The time when I said about us splitting up he just said "poor kids" and basically poor him that I would be leaving him alone. He carried on about it all so matter of fact, going on about how the state would determine how much support he would have to pay, as if it didn't bother him in the slightest. I got very emotional and he started to say that the most important thing are the children. So I tried to just think of them and play happy families but I don't know how long I can do this for....

I'm very sorry you are going through this. Please don't criticise yourself for your feelings 10 years ago: you did what felt right then. If he's acting so cool about the whole idea of divorce, maybe he doesn't think you mean it? I agree with SSSandy that leaving the kids with him for a month could be construed by your ILs (not only him) as evidence against you, should a divorce then ensue. I also think you need to talk to an Italian lawyer in strict confidence and find out exactly what your rights are - he was probably trying to impress you with how 'in control' he is when he said all those things - he may not know what the law says.

I wonder whether you may have a better relationship if you are able to find some work and bring in some money as he might start seeing you as an individual again rather than just the mother of his kids? Whereabouts in Italy are you? If you have office skills there's always loads of temp jobs in the larger cities for English speakers, plus teaching English and translating are also options - these wouldn't involve overnight stays or leaving the children for long periods.

Sorry, living with a man who says he doesn't love you sounds like real mental torture to me. Or even doesn't love you the way he did. Like you should be grateful for any kind of shitty love he gives you, rather than expecting the real thing.

This is not a good relationship model to show your children. You don't say what sex your children are, but if you have a dd, you are teaching her to expect not to be loved and cherished by her husband, but to be tolerated at best, or at worst despised. And you're teaching your DS (if you have one) to have contempt for women.

I don't really know what to advise practically, except to remember that as someone else said, by bringing up his children you've enabled him to work, so your contribution to your income is equal to his. And remember that you deserve love and loyalty and respect from the man you're with and if he can't give you it, then it's worth thinking really seriously about whether you deserve something better than him. Being alone with your self-respect may well be a better option.

sunny, (BIG BIG HUG)

I know it feels like he is calling all the shots and you are being dragged about at his will but he really doesn't have the power to dictate your life to you. You've given birth to 2 kids, you are a STRONG woman and you can take charge, even if it means changing the tables after all these years of marriage. You're not 19 now, so it's time for some things to change. You can do it, just one step at a time.

Keep in mind that an Italian mother has a very strong position, before the law and generally in the eyes of society. Please go and see some people who can advise you, don't rely on what he tells you. Why should he tell you the truth after all? You can find a lawyer who could advise you in English. I'm sure of it. Go and see a priest maybe. Go to an English speaking church of whatever denomination and get people behind you, so you feel stronger. There is honestly a lot you can do unless you're in a small village in the back of beyond. In which case, I'd make a trip into town to see a lawyer.

I don't know if you want to say where you are in Italy. If you're in Rome, keep in mind that the embassies have local positions and employ English speakers with residency permits but these positions are practically never advertised. Just write and ask if anything is available, follow up with a phone call or drop by in person.

How do you get on with the ILs? Do you have Italian (girl)friends of your own there?

By the way sunny, I'm not saying you should leave him, get a job, get a divorce or anything. You have to decide when you're ready. You need to just know where you stand and be prepared for any eventuality. That'll give you the peace of mind to tackle things, be it fixing the marriage, ending it or just changing something about your own life. Good luck to you