What have i done?! Have I been dating a narcissist?

[slimedagain]

Hi i have been reading desperately trying to make sense of it all and just wanted to know if i have been dating a narcissist and how do i deal with myself now? I cant stop crying and need to concentrate on my children.

I got with this guy (N) after I split from my husband primarily because ex h had a porn addiction (and didn't tell me ) whilst pretending he had no sex drive.
I have been friends with N for over a decade, good friends I thought.
Much of our relationship we discussed different women he liked,mutual friends, colleagues etc. He was often confused about which woman he's after had a few relationships while i knew him and a few flings that he told me about.
When talking about previous relationships there were a couple of women who i feel were quite vulnerable, he talked about himself as the victim and those (younger) women hoodwinking him into relationships and 'playing' him.
Years ago i was friendly with one of those women and i clearly remember her saying "i'm free" after splitting up with him.

When my ex husband and i split N declared his feelings for me and as we'd always connected and i was in desperate need of some passion i (stupidly) fell straight into an intense relationship with him.

During our long friendship he was preoccupied with having kids, spending time around other people's kids. He said that when i became a mother i really blossomed and that's when he really started to fall in love with me.

Quite early on in our relationship he talked to me about porn, asking me repeatedly: "what would you do if i was addicted? How do you know im not? " it made me uncomfortable, uneasy and scared especially as he knew what i'd been through with my ex. I told him how i felt and he explained it away saying it was just our usual banter and meant nothing. He seemed surprised i was upset but apologised saying he was addicted to porn but no longer needs it as is no longer single and has me. At this point you'll be wondering what on earth kept me friends with him, he never presents this side of himself to friends that i know of, lots of people think hes amazing and i know a LOT of women who are attracted to him, he's the original charismatic, creative, great listener, really insightful and gives great advice, the ideal male best friend, or so he seemed...

Although i knew years ago he smoked dope (we all did back then) it was only recently he told me he was addicted to cannabis and had only stopped very recently but was still spending lots of time around a good friend who is regularly smoking dope around him. N seemed to enjoy showing how controlled he was around his dopey friend.

The next thing which unsettled me was him getting really angry over a discussion over me confiding in a mutual friend, telling me how dangerous her partner is so therefore i shouldn't trust her. I was defensive about my friend and he started to try and scare me talking about things her partner had done and demanding a response from me. I cried and asked him to stop trying to scare me, when he'd stopped he said he'd only been trying to guide me.

During the brief relationship there were a few angry outbursts when he was feeling criticised, questioned or disagreed with, they were so at odds with the friend he was and the lover he'd become, i used to get upset and then he'd beg me not to leave and told me stories about his childhood abandonment issues. Lots of the stuff he told me about his horrible childhood he said he'd never told anybody else before except for his therapist.

Another weird thing that he did when recounting stories about himself he talked about 'this person' or 'that person' instead of saying their names. I told him it was weird and unsettling and then he stopped doing it.

when i was under immense pressure and had asked for some time out from the 'relationship' to sort out my other personal issues, he planned to take another woman out (one of his large posse of women friends). Previously when we were just friends he'd expressed strong feelings for her to me. I got so upset when he told me that he cancelled the date and said it was just as friends, but he didn't mean to distress me.

One day he came to my door, i was upstairs so slow in answering and when i got there he was outside talking to a woman he'd recently met at a staff training event. He'd previously told me about this woman, ridiculing her as a 'dolly bird' and calling her 'blondie'. She was very attractive in a well groomed slim blonde kind of way. They were chatting quite mundane stuff in front of me, then she left and said goodbye, i walked back into the house and as she left i heard her call to him "i will go for THAT coffee with you". He muttered "no you won't" under his breath and i felt he was genuinely shaken by my overhearing her say that. I asked him if he was planning on going for coffee with her and he replied "no!" Quite vehemently, and said he'd i troduced me to her as "the love of his life" i didn't bother saying anything else i just let it fester while i continued to manage other stressors in my life, but i see this woman about 4 times every day in my local area and am often tempted to ask her about the coffee comment and find out how the discussion had come about although i won't gain anything from knowing, it's just tormenting myself.

When we first got together he kept telling me what an amazing body i have (i haven't!) then after we'd been together a while he was casually mentioning a few times about my 'bulk' and talking about me toning up/would love to see me toned up. Very subtle throw-away comments but enough to make me feel belittled. I remember him in a previous relationship when his partner was trying to get pregnant he was saying things about her figure hoping she won't put on more weight after having kids, at the time i was young free and no kids and thought this was just a normal blokey observation.

He also told me that other people were saying there was a violent end to one of his relationships but he told me a completely different story and because he was my friend i believed the story. Another friend recently reminded me of this incident and i've recently noticed he's always changing his story to suit his mood/the circumstances and getting really angry when challenged.

One of his very old, close friends (one of his harem) recently became pregnant. N said to me she is no longer interesting now she's always talking about expecting a baby.

He kept offering to do various chores to help me out as i was juggling so many things, he got cross and irritated a couple of times then said he was struggling to keep up the being nice and kind, trying to prove he was better than my ex. It was around this time that i started to feel that he was acting out a charade and hiding behind a facade.
The sex also took a darker turn but as i have always been 'adventurous' it didn't really add up until after that he was the one instigating the change of tone because after we'd had more dark sex he said it was worrying him the turn things were taking and he didn't want to lose the tenderness and romance. He said he'd never done some of the things before and was just being led by me but his performance was very authentic and it felt to me like it was very natural to him.

I also found out since we split that he kept dating profile open although he doesnt appear to have logged on for a while.

In between al this madness we did have an amazing time, doing fun stuff, going to beautiful places but i felt increasingly that he was only happy as long as i was adoring and not challenging.

I dont really know why i'm writing here, i just feel really stupid, foolish, angry with myself and depressed that while i thought i was getting some hot sex and passion as well as romance he was most likely just using me and possibly lining up other women behind my back.

It's hard to talk about in real life because friends and family just thought it was rebound and that i was jumping in too soon, nobody seems in the slightest bit interested in my pain now, it really hurts so soon after a divorce and i wish i'd never given him head/heart space.

[GarlicAugustus]

I've started the freedom programme - YAY! Well done

[slimedagain]

garlic I'm determined not to walk into another toxic situation and ignore the warnings that they all readily give out. This is the first time I have 'dated' as a single mum and it was a bit disastrous, I don't want to expose my kids to the kind of madness which was the first 40 years of my life!
And I certainly won't be entertaining any idea of men for a considerable amount of time now, my priority is my children and me. (grammatically strange sentence but I'm trying to take a lot in right now!)

[slimedagain]

He has emailed me this morning to say "sorry my behaviour caused you so much distress blah blah blah, I hope we can part as friends not as ex partners blah blah blah I find it difficult not talking to you blah blah I hope we can meet to talk about things blah blah blah" (can't c & P as am on my phone)

So I'm reading between the lines and thinking that he wants to part as friends so that I don't tell our mutual friends what a complete knob chops he was. Je doesn't know even a percentage of the things I've highlighted here as red flag, he thinks I was running away because of his short fuse. I think he'll be forever more in denial.
Did I mention that he's been in therapy for 13 years?! With the same therapist?! He admitted that he was lying to her for ten of those years and the other day she talked to him about him presenting a 'false self' to her after he'd told her about our recent argument where I said his lies were manipulative...

I haven't replied to his email, part of me is tempted to send him the list of horrors I wrote in my OP: I've named it Reasons to be Fearful
The other part of me thinks fuck it, why even respond? What would I gain? He is Scorpio and I used to jokingly refer to some of his less attractive traits as typical Scorpio, he used to get riled by this and one day responded that Scorpios have plenty of positive attributes, when I asked which he replied in all seriousness "connecting well with people sexually". It was the only positive he could come up with, tells me all I needed to know.

Better get on to the next stage of freedom programme before I meander too far back down bad-memory lane

[slimedagain]

Hi all, me again, I am doing well with the no contact and have been feeling quote enlightened and empowered. Today I received this text message : Hi Could i pick my belongings up please. I know you dont want to see me. So could u leave them in ur garage unlocked between 3 and 4pm and i can collect them. Thanks

It sounds very reasonable but tbh today I don't feel like collecting his 'belongings' and packing them up and putting them in the garage etc. It's too much hassle, in feeling lazy and possibly a bit churlish. It's just a few clothes and an old spare laptop and some deodorant I think.
I'm still confused about everything, what/how should I respond? Sorry for being wimpish, I still need/want hand holding and feel a bit controlled by his message. I never replied to his blah blah email.

[springydaffs]

Dear, dear me. That's the biggest red flag - 10 years lying to a therapist?!?

[Fluffybrain]

I could have written this too. Yes he is a narcissist and is emotionally abusive to women he is in relationships with. He grooms the women in his harem to be part of his narcissistic supply. He needs to be adored. He cannot accept criticism. His addictions are part of his narcissism/abuse. My ex's addictions were gambling, porn and time-keeping! He would tell me after sex how many minutes we'd been at it! He is a product of his abusive upbringing but it is his choice to abuse. He can choose not but he doesn't. I, like you, have spent a lot of time thinking and reading about him, me and why this happened. I think it's a generational thing. I had a narcissist in my family and so to a certain extent emotional abuse and the affects on others in the family feels 'normal' to me. I have had some therapy and realised that I need to set boundaries for myself in terms of the way I allow others to treat me. It was reading mumsnet that I realised he was abusive, that this forms part of domestic abuse and can escalate into violence. If it wasn't for mumsnet I would not have understood what was happening to me and been able to make changes and start to move forward. Like you, I have clung to the fact that I am staying away from him for my children. At one point I wrote their names on a sign at my front door saying 'don't let him in'. He'd have gone mad if he knew that. He thinks he the kindest caring , great with kids kind of guy I could ever meet. I now know that was his 'false self' and that he made me feel terrible about myself and subtly exerted control over me and is a danger to mine and my children's health and happiness. He emailed me recently too. We exchanged a few emails. But I am alert to his manipulations. I now understand why I had such a need to fix him and that I cannot fix him. I have left him to his psychotherapist to sort out. I am now taking time out to feel ok on my own. When I'm ready I will be open to getting to know someone who is rock solid. If you can, pay to see a therapist. It's life changing.

[springydaffs]

PC on major go-slow. Hope someone comes along soon xx

[Fluffybrain]

Oh and re his belongings... I put my ex's in a bag for life and left them on his doorstep at a time that was convenient for me. He hated that.

[GarlicAugustus]

Slime, if it's a simple task I would do it. Lock your doors from the inside and put headphones on when he's due to collect! But I would leave his stuff outside in the rain.

You're quite right, he's calling the shots. This one isn't worth struggling with, however. It's presented as a closing shot; take it that way and heave a sigh of relief!

[springydaffs]

CODA is a good port of call. Can't link but look it up. Biggest step for me in detaching from my NARC exh. Him if the terrible childhood, me of the love him to health and wholeness. They choose people like us.

[slimedagain]

springydaffs haha its a bit of a joke isnt it, i suspected it for a while and he told me the other day, i was not surprised, i just thought 'so what are you getting out of your relationship with your therapist?' Im suspecting it's just more supply of attention for him. What a crock!

fluffybrain my ex is very analytical always dissecting our sexual and emotional encounters. He was fascinated by my relationship with my children always giving insights.he said that one of his (married) female friends sees him as a bit of a childrearing guru and always comes to him with any parenting issues. He studied psychology about twenty years ago and tries to big up his degree sometimes talking about degrees plural and when challenged gets snarky...

[slimedagain]

I will check coda. I did say after an argument that we/i was in a codependent r/ship, he found it ever so funny...

[orangefusion]

Slimed, if you dont want to do the gathering of his stuff right now then don't, but it might be the perfect time to get it all gone. The alternative is to tell him when he can collect it from outside your house (I would not let him into an open room of my house, not even the garage).


Dont engage with any of the other stuff about parting as friends- that will be a ruse to keep you in his harem. He will bad mouth you to others and he will say he ended it all- he has to do this to save face. Expect any joint friends or aquaintances to side with him (unless they know what he is really like) because he has already begun the process of devaluing you, you know that because you experienced it.

Get rid of the stuff, then No contact for any reason. If you see him in the street you can igore him, look right through him- if he tries to engage you in conversation get out by using the "I'm sorry I have something more interesting to do- bye" line.

[kentishgirl]

Hi OP

I think you've got an awful lot to be proud of.

You DID see and act on those red flags. Not the first few times, but pretty quickly on the whole. You've learned to recognise what is right and wrong in a relationship and know you deserve the right stuff.

You've thought about the effect on your children and acted in their interests as well as your own

You've started the Freedom programme

You sound like a very strong person, deep down, and you are finding your strength again in your everyday life, even when things are hard you are doing the right stuff now.

If I were you I'd pack up his stuff today, leave it in the garage, and then you never have to have anything more to do with him ever. It draws a line under the whole thing for you.

[slimedagain]

kentishgirl you are so right. I am strong but I have surrounded myself with weak people and then let them call the shots.
I have been to a friend's house and had a massage, just got home and am not in the packing belongings mindset right now. I'm out all day tomorrow so will do it then.

fluffybrain I'm so glad I clicked on to him when I did rather than my children becoming pawns in his circus of madness. I'm having lots of moments of clarity which is really helping me to detach from him mentally /emotionally. I believe he was grooming me from the start as I think he does with all women and just waits to see who'll take the bait.
Feck it, not my problem, so I got used for sex, hey ho, I wanted sex after a sexless marriage, and I got it, enjoyed it and now I don't need to worry about it.
I also got involved with a nasty fuck and got out before any real damage was done.

And I'm learning a lot about myself, my boundaries and my background, Thanks in no small part to the amazing women on mumsnet and the wonderful power of the Internet.
Been reading some interest stuff from Freud and jaques lacan, some of it is weird but lots of it makes sense and explains what turns some people into abusers and narcissist types.
Time to read more about me and moving forward with her is my next step.

And here comes the rain!

[Meerka]

did he get his stuff?

[slimedagain]

meerka nah, i went out and had some edifying time with a friend and then a massage, not really in packing mood got plans for tomorrow afternoon so will leave his stuff for him then. My time!

I know it sounds petty but i honestly dont want to do it today. I have been feeling very low in mood and motivation and just want to do things at my own pace, i've been processing so much for so long and am really learning stuff these last few days it's absolutely exhausting!

[Meerka]

good idea, hope you had a lovely time. Massage mmm ...

[slimedagain]

Thanks meerka its been a good day in terms of doing things which are good for me. The 'n' has increased his haranguing re his stuff, he sent a mad garbled message re times he could be free tomorrow which i ignored then another message much later saying he is going away on thursday and he 'needs' both his rucksack and his spare laptop and please could i help him.

He said he'll be passing my place tonight and could knock on my door to collect it, if you saw where i lived you would know that nobody passes it unless they actually live next door, it's not on a route to anywhere...

So i have agreed to leave his stuff outside in my back garden tomorrow afternoon and let him know when it's there, of course i'll be well out of the way when i send the message so i wont bump into him.

The sad thing is even though i know he's conned me i still miss him and hanker for what was never there, the more i think about it the more i think he actually hates women and never cared a jot for me which alternately hurts me and galvanises me. I can't hate him and don't want to be angry as it's unhealthy for me and was making me depressed.

So all in all i'm moving forward and really trying not to let my emotions get the better of me. I really want to let him know i'm onto him and his deceptions, of course i know it's pointless and could make him turn nastier in defence so it's easier not to say anything.

[Fluffybrain]

Slimed your posts make me feel less alone in this. I also feel that even though I know all this stuff about him and know he is no good for me, I do still love him and miss him. I ride a roller coaster of emotions anger, shame, grief for him both as a lover and as a friend. He was my best friend. I trusted him completely. Right up until the day he came around to tell me he had been shagging his auntie (not blood related but a woman who has given birth to your cousin is your auntie in my eyes). I left my sexless marriage to be with him. No regrets. I am 3 months down the line from telling him it was over and things are very slowly improving. The picking up stuff at times that suit him is all about control on his part. Let him play his silly end game alone. He doesn't have control over you. You are free!

[slimedagain]

fluffybrain it's good to find people who understand. It's very hard to get over something which feels so good and so bad at the same time.
I'm starting to understand my codependent role in the whole thing, i've been a people pleaser all my life, an easy target for mean people!

sorry you are still having those feelings, i think it's related to having no real closure with somebody like that. You can never rationalise their behaviour because they will always be dishonest and selfish.

this is a great read for when you're struggling with missing your ex alexandranouri.com/2011/03/13/missing-the-narcissist/

[orangefusion]

Slimed. I am having problems with my email hence lack of reply. :)

[springydaffs]

Oh gosh, he's a psychologist??? Oh dear, oh dear. You know to never, ever discuss any inner workings with him, yes? He'd tie you tight in string like Gulliver. Chilling brrr

Coda really was a lifesaver for me. It catapulted me out without a backward glance. Mind, then I had to deal with my shit, which kept me too busy to miss him (or miss my hopes). And I had a fair amount of shit to deal with, otherwise I would never have gone for someone like that.

[slimedagain]

Wow i sent a huge long reply but its not here ...
Anyway, springydaffs he knows everything about me and threw it all in my face today in a spectacular attack when i foolishly let him in, i had bagged his stuff up but let him come round to collect it as it was raining hard i didnt want to leave his stuff in the rain so he asked to come in and check it was al there, he had an inventory in his head and sent me scurrying around looking for odd books, dvds etc that i'd completely forgotten about, he also brought my stuff back, i just checked the bags now, every. Single. Thing. I had ever given him or taken to his house , things i'd never have remembered in a million years, amazing attention to detail.
Anyway so all the while he was checking he kept asking to talk, to chat, to 'natter' and i kept refusing and he kept on about our friendship, our connection etc and i kept pottering around, in the end i got so fed up i just said ' im not sure how real our friendship was' and then he released his venom and attacked me with every vulnerability and every sensitive secret thing he'd ever got from me with his skilful questioning and amazing listening skills, i ended up having a full panic attack and then after he left a mutual friend called and said he'd emailed her out of the blue telling her about our row and asking her why she thought i'd denied our connection. She then told me how he'd previously told her how they had a connection and that he'd shared stuff with her that he'd never told anybody else etc, i was so hurt to hear her say it, i knew there'd been some weird flirtation attraction thing between them about a year ago, a couple of things he'd let slip had made me think he was still quite fascinated by her...
So i started to freak out thinking oh god he's started contacting people about me, whats he going to say next, what secrets of mine will he share and as well of being scared of his temper i was scared of him defaming me.
Later he sent a text message apologising and saying he lashed out because he was hurt and he didn't mean the things he said.
I thought damage limitation, i'll just apologise too and hope that will stop him in his tracks, i thought maybe if he thought we have actually parted as friends that he wont continue with the attack and i can let him think he's still got me in his harem so he doesn't have to worry about what i might tell people, much like i imagine simon c*well to be, keep your enemies close...i don't know i am probably being naive and he will see through my apology but i just want to stop all the chaos so by letting him think he's right then i can be safe.

[slimedagain]

Thanks orangefusion tech problems abound at the mo!