Breadwinner and Homemaker - how do I *prove* we are equal?

[geekwitharaygun]

Folks, I'm an MN noob so please be gentle.

DW and I have been married 10 happy years, and we have two DS's who are our pride and joy. We met and fell in love at work, and when DW fell pregnant she went on a career break, partly due to medical advice that she would need to rest a lot during pregnancy.

Anyway, DW has taken to being the doting Mummy to our DS's and has been the homemaker ever since. I am the breadwinner and I am very happy with this situation, because in my time, my mother kept the home, whilst my dad was out all the hours God sends working. I know the benefits that it brings to have the constant presence of at least one parent when growing up.

Now DS1 is at school, and DW has to deal with some less than sensitive comments from working mums dropping their kids off at school. Mostly she shrugs them off, but some of them are quite catty, especially when they organise nights out and dinner meetings.

Also, I know that DW misses her finanical independence, the sense of worth that a job brings, and in particular, having to ask me for money (though mostly we use shared accounts and cards).

If people ask me what she does, I always tell them she is on a career break whilst the kids are small, and I take no shame in this, and most people know that talking about 'stay at home Mums' in front of me is NOT a good idea.

Mostly we are the best of friends and we keep to ourselves. We make each other laugh and we take delight in following the acheivements of our DS's.

But when DW is feeling low, she says that I do not value what she does. I can understand how difficult it can be to look after the DS's all day, and for me to waltz in at the end of a day's work where I have been valued and had proper adult conversations. The problem is that anything I say is just a bunch of words. Actions speak much louder.

When I get home, I take the kids after tea, do bathtime and put them to bed. I always wash up after she's made our meal, and I try to help with other little things round the house. However if I do too much, DW thinks I am criticising her for doing something she should have done.

If you are familiar with the situation, can you think of anything I can do to prove that we are equals, and that her role is just as valued as mine?

She's not a flowers and chocolates type of DW by the way...

Sounds to me like your wife is not that happy as a SAHM and self conscious about her status so she is over sensitive to the schoolmate comments and interprets you helping as a comment on her falling down on the job.

I became an unwilling SAHM when we moved abroad for my DH's job to a country where I couldn't work. It made me really worried about my career and felt like I had thrown my education down the drain. I really wasn't enjoying SAHM life and was hypersensitive to anyone commenting on it. Maybe I'm 'projrct

Oops posted too soon...

Maybe I 'm projecting but if your wife really wanted to be a SAHM and was happy in the role she wouldn't give a hoot what the moms at the schoolgate say or whether you think she is doing a good job. Is she a SAHM out of choice or because she feels it's what you or society or her parents or others want? Sounds to me like she is not that happy with her choices (if it was a choice). The SAHM role is not the right choice for everyone. Now your DSs are in school maybe it's time for you both to reevaluate things?

It's impossible to know, without actually being in the situation, whether this is a case of other people genuinely being unpleasant, or whether your wife Is feeling over sensitive and imagining other mums looking down their nose at her. You mention her feeling good when the children are behaving well, but feeling negative when they don't, but tbh I don't see what that's got to do with her being a SAHM. All children will play up sometimes. All children will also have moments when they make you feel immensely proud of them, like the one you describe. When you are comfortable as fulfilled in your role as a parent, you accept that this is how life is. I agree with the above poster that if your wife is feeling so hyper sensitive to what other people might think, it may just be that she's not totally fulfilled in her role any more. There's nothing unusual about people changing... Maybe what suited her a few years ago isn't what she wants now. Being a parent is wonderful but frankly there are many aspects of being home all the time which can be grindingly dull and isolating

welcome to mumsnet OP - home of the forensically examined post, every word and nuance picked over and sometimes wilfully misinterpreted! Most people do mean well and you've had some good advice / questions here - some just want to pick a fight (especially if an OP admits to owning a penis). In very general terms, taking the gist of your post at face value, I do think that if your youngest is soon starting school then now is a good time for your DW to think about at least a partial return to work. Could you drop some hours maybe so that the DCs have one parent at home most of the time, if that is important to you?

Thanks peeps. The School gate is a funny phenomenon. Many of the working Mums will drop off on the way to work, as gates open early, and then someone else does pickup. There are lots of flash cars and smart business suits about the place. I normally feel quite comfortable about myself as a person and a parent, but when I do drop off I have to say it makes me feel a bit inferior on account of the amount of wealth on display.

If you are a full time parent, I guess you want to feel that you are doing the best for your kids and that it shows. If they misbehave and you get supercilious looks from parents dressed in outfits worth more than your entire wardrobe, it is going to hurt!

Why hasn't your wife plugged into the SAHM group at the kid's school? There are usually the working moms and the SAHM moms and the groups usually stick with their own group - just based on availability.

Does your wife not like staying home? If not, does she feel guilty about not liking it?

It's interesting to me that you think SAHM are looked down on as it is quite the opposite here. The SAHM pity the working moms. The working moms are jealous of the SAHMs. (Generally, though they are friendly to each other.)

What makes talking about your wife going back to work so difficult? I guess I am not really understanding the root issue.

"If you are a full time parent, I guess you want to feel you are doing the best for your kids and that it shows."

This speaks volumes.

First off, try to avoid using inaccurate terminology. Once you become a parent, you are a parent full stop. You don't stop being one when you're at work, or when your children are at school. Secondly, all parents are doing the best for their children, whether they work or not.

You sound more and more as though you have issues about feeling your wife should be home full time, and that this is some sort of measure of how "good" she is as a parent. Maybe you are projecting this onto her (even if you aren't aware of it) and that's contributing to her hypersensitivity.

If people ask me what she does, I always tell them she is on a career break whilst the kids are small, and I take no shame in this, and most people know that talking about 'stay at home Mums' in front of me is NOT a good idea.

She is a stay at home mum and this statement is not valuing that.

PS bottom line is: some children are naturally more challenging than others. Some siblings get along well; some
bicker constantly. It's got naff all to do with whether a parent is home all the time! It seems that somewhere along the line your wife has picked up the message that as a SAHM, her children ought to be displaying excellent behaviour and everything should be hunky dory as some sort of visible sign of what a great job she's doing. No wonder she feels inadequate if she feels she's being judged like that.

I think if you choose to be a SAHP it should be because you genuinely want to. Not because you expect any sort of payback, because you stand to be disappointed

I too am slightly surprised if parents dropping off at school before rushing to work have much time for supercilious looks or nasty comments. Let's guess there's at least 100 parents at the school gates - are there maybe just a few nasty ones and everyone else is minding their own business, trying to keep their kids in line and transfer armfuls of sports kits etc?

DH and I are working parents who sometimes do school drop off. I have no idea at all, beyond about 8 families who I know "personally", who works and who doesn't.

What does your wife want to do?

Regardless of the wider perceptions and the ongoing wohm or sahm debate, she needs to be happy with the situation and feel she is adding value. It's not a case of right or wrong.

"saying that I demand it as a gold standard is not right. "

You don't demand it as a gold standard, you hold it up as a gold standard. You believe that children should have a parent at home with them as the ideal. Logically therefore, you do not believe that both parents should work while children are small. That is coming across loud and clear.

If you spend too much time trying to convince your DW that she is valued in a domestic role that she finds unrewarding, ironically I think all she'll be hearing is 'I don't want you to resume your career'. I suggest that you switch message to 'I will support you in whatever you want to do'.

What do you mean by us living in a "broken society?"
Society - and my family individually - is not broken because I choose to work.

I'll take a big leap here - but try imagining a situation where a woman who has worked hard at her career and enjoys it is now not so willingly at home and has a husband who thinks that 2 working parents = broken. That's a lot of pressure.

What does she actually WANT?

You want the SAHM. She might not.

And I'm offended, by the way, by what seems to be your implication that I'm contributing to a broken society by working. I am no less a constant presence in my child's life for not seeing her every minute of the day.

I'm a working mum who does drop off but I don't have a flash car or a business suit. I guess you live in a demographically different area to me because most of the mums round here seem to be available for all the school runs so work part time or not at all. I can't say I pay that much attention really. Why does your wife feel so judged by other mums? Do you think she might be projecting? Mostly we don't go around judging other women for their working/not working choices or for their kids behaviour, that would be foolish since every child can be naughty sometimes.
Also, how rude to say that SAHM has only negative connotations! It's a factual description. If you believe it has only negative connotations then you either believe the role of full time parent to be negative or you hang about with a load of arseholes who do. I would judge a woman calling herself a housewife to be fair but SAHM not at all.

Have you asked her if she wants to go back to work? The children are in school now so required childcare would be a minimum of a few hours each day or nil if she returned part time. I totally get your view on one parent staying at home and raising the children but there has been much research done on nursery vs sahm. It seems to say either way is ok.

What I don't understand is if she is unhappy why hasn't she returned? It's very possible that (as said up thread) she is staying home because she feels that it's what you believe is best. Might she be looking for your approval? If so you should give her it or accept that she isn't fully content with life as it is.

Seriously some of you peeps need to get a grip.

What ever happened to Habeas Corpus, Pendleton's rules, and just being friendly? It is sad that compared to other forums I have used such a high percentage of the comments attracted by my OP are negative.

For anonymity you only know the very shallowest of details of what is happening for me or DW.

@Cabrinha : What does she actually WANT?
@Quitelikely : Have you asked her if she wants to go back to work?
Well I asked her and she does not want to go back to work. There it is in black and white. The reasons are complex and various, and yet it is as if some of you on here seemed to know DW's mind better than she does herself!

@cogito : Re: being a full time parent - I do not hold it up as a Gold standard. I am saying that I understand the value of it when people choose to do it. We buy a lottery ticket every week, for the small hope that if we won, I could come and join my wife in being a full time parent too. If we had the money, I would do it in a heartbeat.

I came to MN to look at Dadsnet and for constructive advice. This is going the way of a character assasination.

There's a recent post from an upset DW last night who is very much in the same boat it would seem. Her DH has not been kind and I tried to be sympathetic in the post. The posts she has received have been so supportive, it is heartwarming to see.

So post what you like here because you've pushed this DH away from MN after his first post and I won't be coming back. Anything you say will be in soliloquy so just go for it...

To those that support and suggest. Goodbye and thank you!
To those that flame and detest. Goodbye and shame on you!

Not that surprised, you have to be pretty thick skinned to post here and have your flaws exposed. Nobody likes their world view pulled apart, even if sometimes it is necessary.

Good luck OP. Keep lurking. It's an education.

Guess something hit a nerve...