Feeling objectified and criticised

[theeyeofthestorm]

Name changed for this - but am a long time lurker on the relationships board, trying to learn whether I'm capable of a LTR. This situation isn't as bad as many, but I need some help to get my thoughts in order.

I'm in my 30s, DH is 50, married a year and together for 3. It's his 2nd marriage; he has 3 children in their 20s. When we met, we had a casual sexual relationship. My life was going badly, I was self harming (including using sex tbh). Since we've been together I've done a lot of work on myself, through a year of individual counselling, good female friends and making my life worth something again. When we first got together I was really broken - I'd given a baby up for adoption believing I'd never make a fit mother, and I thought I'd never get back to my career. DH was supportive, caring and we have had brilliant times together. I feel disloyal writing this. When we argue he gets angry and won't believe he is wrong, ever, I always make the first move towards compromise. I need to get my head straight before I talk to him.

The first issue is sex - I feel really objectified. When we met I was doing all sorts with DH, dogging/ webcams/ other people. I now see this as an extension of my self harm, making myself feel worthless. We've not done anything like that for 18 months - but DH brings it up every time we have sex - and often at other times, eg. Every time we go away. For a weekend or holiday he looks up all the dogging sites and if I'm wearing a skirt, he suggests we could always have sex in the back of the car somewhere. Also when I'm getting dressed he'll look at me with this smile/growl that he says is him fantasising what he'd like to do to me.

It means we only have sex about once a week, although if he didn't always talk about how other men would have me while he watches, I would want it more often. I've told him this, and that I've changed and that those things were emotionally damaging to me - he's stopped pushing me to do it, to be fair, but doesn't seem to be able to not fantasise out loud and it's reinforcing my negative views of myself.

Secondly, since I've returned to work in my previous professional training job, he's changed from supportive to always having digs at me. Previously I was a driven high achiever with high standards and I burned myself out and ended up in a psychiatric unit and with permanent effects of self harm. Since coming back I'm taking it steadier, going home early if I'm finished and allowed, and it's helping as I've been really tired. He's making digs about my work ethic and professionalism, and how he'd work much harder to make a good impression in a new job. But he is self employed, in commission only sales, with limited initiative. I out earn him, pay the rent and almost all the bills, whilst he runs the car. I've been grateful as his flexibility has enabled him to support me through appointments and my recovery. I feel like battling my own guilt and self esteem. Issues is tough enough without being kicked when I'm down. Maybe it's a storm in a teacup that will settle down.
When I've mentioned finances to him he's accused me of 'using' him to look after me, in an "after all I've done for you" way. Maybe I have.

I feel lost and confused, hence posting. Should I suggest couples counselling? Or will things settle down and change, are these minor issues that occur in every marriage, am I being a drama queen??

Thank you if you have read this far!

gah! posted the essay too soon sorry!

... be a good memory. If you stay, I think you have to accept that he may not ever change / grow in the way you have.

I am very skeptical about the sexual part of your earlier relationship. I would agree with others about adjusting to the changes (him) if you just decided it wasn't for you anymore but you'd previously enjoyed years of non-traditional sex (dogging, swinging, whatever). But he knew that whilst he was enjoying this (and perhaps you thought you were too), that you were very unwell.

If I had a friend who said they were into that scene, that would be fine. I wouldn't try to talk them out of it. If I had a friend who was very unwell, who then became interested, I would try and talk them out of it. Certainly out of a relationship with an older man who would encourage that (I'd call it exploitation, really). I can't see how he couldn't see that whilst you were unwell it wasn't what you needed. You realised it yourself, which is much harder than someone realising from the outside. Seems convenient for him to have never questioned that.

I've said the above on the assumption that when you started the sexual exploits he knew you had been or were unwell, is that a fair timeline?

I don't buy not being able to silence his fantasies (although not verbalising objectification doesn't mean it isn't happening). I manage not to blurt out my sexual fantasies every day. He's quite capable.

I agree with dirtybadger.

I think your relationship has always had abusive elements and co-dependent elements.

Your husband took advantage of your extreme vulnerability after mental health issues (if I understand your OP correctly), and giving your child away - to exploit you and encourage risky sexual practices. Any decent man in that situation would not have colluded in your own self-harm and poor mental health. They would have said 'heal yourself and if you're still interested in wild sex then we'll talk'. However, if you asked my husband to go dogging or swinging he would just say 'non' full stop.

I understand that you felt dependent on him and that he gave you some support, but types like your husband always look out for vulnerable women, because your fragility means they can get power and control & you can be manipulated to do they want. He gave you emotional support while extracting exactly what he wanted sexually. That was the trade off for him.

The problem is you were vulnerable & exploitable then, now you are not. To make matters worse, you have gone back to your good job and now out-earn & out-class him. The gf who always made him feel chipper because she was more vulnerable and less powerful than him, is now in a better position. That's going to make him feel like shit, hence the relentless jibes about your job. On the plus side for him, he still seems to be able to manipulate you into financing him.

I feel you believe you depend on him and need him, that he is part of your recovery; whereas, in fact I suspect you have recovered in spite of him. From his side he depends on you as abusers depend on their victims - to give them a sense of self, to undermine and belittle in order to boost their own self-esteem, and also as an outlet for debasing sexual fantasies that most women wouldn't put up with.

From everything you have said about him his essential sleaziness and poor values with regard to women and sex leap off the page. You come across as an intelligent woman who's doing an admirable job sorting her life out. This man is part of your past history of self-abuse, attitudes to sex you no longer share, I cannot see he is part of your future.

This relationship cannot come good or be fixed because the fundaments were always wrong: it was always exploitative, unequal, abusive. The abuse has simply shifted its ground.

Thank you all for such thoughtful and caring and thorough posts. I feel completely wrung out today.

Dirtybadger yes you've completely got the timescale / jist of things right. I guess I always felt if I'd really discussed things, properly with friends earlier in the relationship, they'd have told me to end it and I felt/ still feel? judged. Like you say though of course I would just be concerned for a friend.

Meerka maybe it is more stifled - I should get on with learning to drive I guess for my own independence anyway. Which leads me to Twinklestein's great point: do I believe I need/ depend on him and that he is part of my recovery??? Maybe that's so - I will think on that, that really might be one for counselling.

I said to him tonight how I'd felt this week about his negative comments. He just walked out of the room and when I raised it again he changed the subject. That worries me, as if he doesn't care he's upset me. I would have believed he would apologize. I'm not sure what to believe now. I'm so touched by the thoughtful lovely messages here from women I've never met. Am crying and tired- this is not what I want.

My first thought was that he was used to your behaving in a certain way and enjoyed that and now you've progressed in your life and view of yourself he's lost that, and hasn't come to terms with it, or doesn't want to.

If he won't engage with you in discussions about important things - how he made you feel this week - and seems determined not to, then it does make me wonder whether he chose you because you were an abuser's dream.

Whatever happens, you've done a huge amount of work on yourself, and pulled yourself up by your bootstraps. Well done for that, and please don't let anything or anyone drag you back down again.

I said to him tonight how I'd felt this week about his negative comments. He just walked out of the room and when I raised it again he changed the subject.

Unless he comes back and apologises and tries to change, that's a bad sign. If he carries on like that sadly leaving might be the best option.

It's possible that while the balance of power was in his favour that he was someone you could talk to about anything. now you're growing and changing and challenging him when he acts unhelpfully, he has two choices: treating you as an equal and listening to you and trying to change. or ignoring what you said.

I do think (maybe im reading too much into this?) that for you where you were in your life, you needed someone to accept you as you were. With the way you acted then. He actually sounds like he was good for you then. But now, things have changed. You've changed. The three options are that he can grow with you or you can leave him behind or you can stifle yourself to his level.

If you choose to leave, the time may not be quite yet. What does your rl friend think?

I think you've outgrown him, simple as that. It's OK to end a relationship that isn't right for you any more and it sounds like this one has run its course.