Advice on long standing family feud

[Cupoftchaiagain]

I really hope noone in my family is reading this. If u r, and recognise this, then please know i am only sharing this because i am trying to imprive things for everyone and i want some views and suggestions from outside the family/friends as I hope this might help.

Posted this in chat here but no replies so trying here instead. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2143214-Family-relationships-advice
My mum and her sisters have an ongoing family rift. My aunt, Mum's sister is currently staying with me for a couple of nights. She asked if she could stay in order to attend an event. Mum is hurt that she didn't ask to stay with her or ask to see her (she asked to see my sisters by name).

Backstory: not completely known to me, gather it all dates from my gran having favourites among her children and they all accuse each other of bullying. Big blow up at my grandad's funeral over a decade ago. Mum and her family not talked properly since. Mum ostracised by family. Mum left country where her family mostly still live, all in same town. Mum and I live in same town.

I have an ongoing relationship with my aunt. I don't want to drop her. My mum is hurt by me seeing her. The family situation is completely toxic to my mum and we have all been impacted by not having that extended family support to various extent. I think I am right in keeping trying to put to mum that I can see aunt without this meaning I am 'betraying' her. I love my mum and don't want her to be unhappy and she is horribly hurt by the family behaviours over the years.

Help. Advice. Grr...

Maybe now is the time to try and find out why all the upset from both sides individually. I have a nc relation who I'd be upset if dd wanted to start/keep a relationship with knowing the hurt she has caused. It probably won't bring the family together, but you may understand why your mum is hurting and be able to lessen the impact on her.

It's difficult, if your mum has been ostracised by her whole family and now one of her DDs Is hosting one of the family members she will feel hurt.
Especially if the family members have been toxic towards her.
Are you able to tell us the background story? What was the fall out about?

I think it's time to sit your mum down and ask for the full story.

While your aunt is there, you might want to ask her too.

By having your aunt to stay, it will look to the rest of the family that you are taking her side over your mums, so you better find out what you are aligning yourself too.

Just noticed in my op it looks like mum left country after and because of funeral blow up- not the case, she left as a young adult and has never lived there since. However most of her family continue to live in that town so they have always seen more of each other.

It is helpful to hear first responses from 3 of u being that u would think it right for someone in my situation to break contact because that is what their mum would want. I have always felt that would show me being manipulated and in her power- thinking about it, these are the things my dad accused/accuseses mum of doing to everyone (messy breakup shortly before aforementioned death and funeral).

My mum does fly off the handle easily and takes things very emotionally and all about her. We had a difficult relationship when I was in my teens and into my 20s. My aunt was someone who was, if never particularly close, consistently friendly and interested. My difficult rel with mum was parlay me being a terrible teen but also her leaning heavily on me for support around my parents' separation and her ostracisation by family. Telling me things I couldn't handle and couldn't help with and expecting me to cut contact with dad. Writing this down my god the parallels are coming clear!

Well, ask your aunt then. She's here now, get her side of the story.

Sorry Cupofchaiagain - do you think I mean you should cut contact with your aunt? That's certainly not what I'm infering - I think that the time has come for you to find out both sides of the story so you can understand from both sides and then you can try and lessen the impact on those who are hurting. If my dd was in your situation, I would want her to know why the situation has arose

Why is your Mum hurt that your aunt didn't ask to stay with her when there's been a rift between them for over a decade? That doesn't make any sense to me.

If your mum has been ostracised by the lot of them then that indicates who may have been perceived as being in the wrong. And it's not all the family members all united back home, is it?

It sounds as if you believe your mother may have either caused or overreacted to whatever happened.

Ask your aunt.

If you want to see your aunt then you can but be discreet or tell your mother that you are and that isn't taking sides as you don't even know what happened.

I also didn't mean for you to cut contact.
IF the family was truly toxic (and reading some threads on here shows how awful some people truly are) then are you doing your mum a disservice by staying in contact? Does she see this as her family manipulating you and (indirectly) her?
Or is it (as is common) six of one and half a dozen of the other?
You need the full story from all sides but remember there are 3 sides to every story his, hers and the truth. Only you can make that judgement.

My aunt says that my mum bullied her and the other siblings and she had to step back and reduce contact with her about 20years ago. She cannot identify anything or give examples. She says she would like to be able to meet up, have a friendly chat not about anything deep. She says she would meet up with all the sibs and mum so mum can say what the problem is /ask what it is.
There is a biggish age gap between my aunt and rest of family and she uses that as explanation as to why she doesn't really get it.
We (my sibs and i) used to spend all summer with Mum's family when we were kids and it reduced as we became teenagers but there was always a reasonable explanation for this. Then bam my parents break up grandad dies and there is this massive fallout amongst my mum and her family.
My aunt also says it is because mum is cold and hostile to them all.- which mum says is because she cannot do pretending to get along any more - and because of this big fall out incident. My other aunt and mum were apparently arguing I do not know what about. I guess that is something I will have to ask both my mum and other aunt if to get somewhere with this.
I suspect it was around Mum's break up - mum has said she was accused in hyperbolic fashion of 'nearly killing' her mum with news of Mum's separation (and preceding affair)
There are so many sides to this. Conservative catholic family affronted at Mum's affair and siding with put upon husband while ignoring 1.massive incompatibility in marriage which led to mum being quietly miserable for years 2. Domestic abuse (sexual) n that marriage? Alleged by mum. I believe her but I also believe dad did not fully understand how wrong what he was doing was. He is now in a happy relationship with a very sensible woman who wouldn't easily be subject to any abuse (I mean she is aware of dv issues and strong) which is a small reassurance to me that my dad is not at least a chronic abuser if indeed he did do it at all- I think this is one of those 3-sided stories!

bitter mum was hurt because for the last 3 years there have been big efforts made by me and my sibs to get them all together in a way in which they can be civil to each other. This was I thought being quite successful but mum says it is all fake. By getting together I mean being able to be in same room without upset and rows at weddings etc

Years of silent abuse in a marriage could lead to all the difficult personality traits my mum shows and I want to support her

Mum says the family always excluded her and were not sympathetic or supportive when she tried to talk about problems. And that this just got worse over years.

Hi I guess I have put u all off! It is a complex and shitty situation. Any words at all?

I don't think you're going to get any sense out of this situation. Their accounts will be poles apart and you will never get to the bottom of it - in fact, it will get more and more tangled the more people you talk to, and the more people say.

I am NC with my family and my, now young adult, kids have chosen to dive into the bosom of my toxic family. It hurts like fuck but I wouldn't say that to my kids. I tend to think that time will tell, though it will probably take a while wails . you being pals with your mum's mortal enemy will slaughter your mum. That's just how it is I'm afraid.

My huge regret is that I facilitated a relationship between my kids and my poisonous brood

PC malfunction!

I was misguided to do that I now realise, though at the time I hadn't got the full measure of exactly how toxic my family is. Toxic families notoriously have a scapegoat and hell will freeze over before they see that they channel all the family dysfunction into one member, a handy conduit. They will never see the scapegoat as anything other than a device to keep the family 'peace'. Except it is anything but peaceful for the scapegoat.

I'm not saying your mother is the family scapegoat - though it could look like that as she is on the outside and they are thick with one another - but I do think you're making a mistake to get involved. Your aunt may be pleasant enough to you but it is not worth alienating your mum if you value your relationship with her: to consort with the enemy is asking for trouble and will fatally wound your relationship with her. Keep out of it., I should. Don't get involved. It's a hornet's nest.

Take this the right way - you not getting on with your mum when you were late teens/early 20s doesn't particularly reflect on your mum or your relationship - it is not unusual for a mother/daughter relationship to be seriously strained during those years.

Thank u springydaffs good to get a perspective that might match Mum's. I have thought about the scapegoat perspective before it works as a theory for this family. ESP as mum doesn't live nearby, all problems out of sight out of mind. I don't want to be hurting her. But being controlled makes me furious!

How do you feel you are being controlled, Cupof? Genuine q.

Ime, when my family took my controlling abuser ex into their hearts and homes the moment I left him (making it clear which of us they preferred out of the two of us), their response to my astonishment was that I was being controlling, that they could be friends with whomever they chose and it was not for me to dictate.

I appreciate this looks one-sided - it would have to be I suppose, as your mum's experience looks similar to my experience. However, just because someone is the family scapegoat, doesn't mean they're perfect. She could be controlling too, I don't know. Growing up in a disordered family doesn't exactly teach you healthy relating skills.

There is also the loyalty question. It's very out of fashion these days but there's something to be said for it I think. It can throw up problems - so-and-so isn't speaking to so-and-so - but sometimes, when it really comes down to it, loyalty is appropriate IMO.

Good questions. I am going out for the day will think about t.