my mother's behaviour still hurts even though I'm in my 40s

[stillhurting2014]

Hello, I've name changed so that I can freely post here on a topic that's very painful (and sensitive as it involves other people).

It's about my mother--and my father, for that matter. I'm now 41 and live in another country from them, I've lived here in the UK for more than 10 years and I suspect one of the reasons I moved was to be away from them.

I'm not going to go into details, but just to say they've always been difficult people in various ways and it's always felt very confusing and hard to deal with them, leading to many problems for me which I've worked and worked over the years to overcome.

Cutting to the chase, what the current issue is--which is again an ongoing issue but it feels I need to resolve it now. My mother was always difficult, self-centred, illogical & feels like a baby in her behaviour sometimes. But since her mother died (my grandmother) a year ago, she's become intolerable. Irritable, doesn't go out almost at all (and drags my father down in this), angry at us, her daughters with almost anything, and also twists and turns anything anyone says to her meaning that then she talks to other family members e.g. about our conversations and they end up angry as she's twisted what was originally said, as if she wants, actively, to create disharmony amongst others (I hope this makes some sense!) She never listens in a a straightforward way & usually deals with conversations by being extremely self-centred and often accusatory in all sorts of crazy ways, and ends up by saying 'I'm too tired, I can't talk etc'. She always complains about tiredness / being old but I remember her doing this from when I was very young. She's actually in her very early 60s and in good health so not old at all.

One of the current issues is: I'm trying to sell I property I own in the country where my parents live. They have sabotaged and sabotaged this for years! And of course it's a down market too which hasn't helped. For more than 6 years I've hesitated or been passive in putting the property actively on the market as first, my parents have at times been extremely aggressive at any attempt of mine to take matters in my own hands e.g. threatening with disowning me. Second, I've been passive because I believed my parents were actually trying to sell it for me, as they live there. What in fact they were doing was asking for ridiculously high prices, not negotiating properly with agents, and even (a year ago) as I found recently, they had a good offer for the house which they rejected without even telling me.

Since february 2014 I have taken matters into my own handsfinallyand have my own estate agents. We have now had some offers for the house and currently there's a possibility it'll sell at a much lower price than my parents, of course, were imagining. But we haven't had offers at the unrealistic amounts they suggest. And in the current price-rise in the UK, it would be crazy not to sell there as this money will be our deposit.

Yesterday we had a conversation with my mum which started well...but when we started talking about the current offer I have on the house & I explained to her that we've researched with estate agents / mortgage advisors and it's throwing money away if we don't sell, she attacked me in various ways. Basically claiming that this won't happen, it won't be sold. She was ridiculing any possibility the sale will go ahead, talked a lot about the fact that 'she had given me this house', and ended up very hurtfully saying that 'it's irrelevant to her what our financial circumstances are here in the UK as we're far away anyway and anyway it's irrelevant to her. What she cares about and what's important is the price of the house'. At that point I actually hang up on her which I hardly ever do.

I have noticed in recent years I visit my home country less & less and this hurts so much. I visit more on holidays & even that, for much less than I used to, as my parents' behaviourand mainly my mother'swhen I'm there drives me crazy. To put it generally, she attacks any possibility of development & happiness in her children. Maybe it sounds dramatic, but sadly it's what she does, probably because she's very unhappy herself.

I need some ideas & help to find strategies to deal with her. At this point we're considerably struggling financially and it's crazy not to be selling a property I outright own just because my parents are putting all sorts of obstacles. I also need to find ways to protect myself from her behaviour as I always end up really tense & angry & upset after these conversations and sometimes lash out at my DH or just can't calm down for a while.

I know this turned into an essay & I'm sorry. Any advice / ideas / threads that are relevant to this sort of thing welcome.

Sounds like she's a narcissistic mother!
www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com

There is a thread in mumsnet called "But We Took You to Stately Homes"

I think you need to back off from this relationship, at least for a while. It sounds harmful to you and you're clearly stressed in other ways and could do without this on top.

Is there any way you can remove your parents from the house selling process? It's really nothing to do with them how much you sell your property for. You've got an agent, and it sounds like a quick sale at a lower price would be better for your mental health right now.

Please tell us that you are pressing on with the sale of your (note, not your mother's) house, on your terms? Have you warned the local estate agents that they are to ignore any calls from your mother, perhaps inform you if such calls are made, maybe even (if you think your mother would stoop so low) set up a password for conversations and/or insist on written/email corroboration, all to stop her sabotaging the sale?
Your comment that she seems hellbent on destroying her offsprings' happiness sounds sadly all too likely.

What's the actual situation, did they give you the house and do they live there?

I agree with the others. Here's what I'd do.
Sell the property myself.
Don't tell them anything about it.
Stop seeking a better relationship with them.
Reduce contact.
Find someone to offload all those years of upset to, a professional.

So sorry you are so upset. Some people are not good parents but you are old enough to see that. Now I think it is time to accept it.

How did you come to own the house your parents live in?
What was your agreement with them at the time?

Why did they give you a house?
Is it the house where they live?

I should imagine your mother feels that while you have a house, there's a chance you'll return.

However, that doesn't justify her behaviour. Of course, if its a clear-cut case where you do own the house, your parents don't live in it etc, you should sell it right away and not let her interfere.

"I need some ideas & help to find strategies to deal with her".

There aren't any strategies because it is impossible to have any sort of relationship with such people anyway. All you can do is detach emotionally from her more than you already have done. You also need to totally reset your boundaries re the house sale as they have been far too low to date. To your credit you have made progress on that issue.

I would also think your parents have never apologised nor have accepted any responsibility for their actions. This is typical of such toxic people as well.

I would also consider removing yourself and your family totally from their lives as of now; people like your parents are just not at all healthy at all to be around and they can make you ill. Your children do not benefit from having any sort of relationship with them.

As for the house well its your property so they do not need to be told anything now. You have probably been conditioned by her over the years to tell her absolutely everything hence their unhelpful meddling in the first place.

I also thought of NPD on reading about the behaviours of your mother. It is NOT your fault she is like this and your Dad has failed you as well in all this by failing to protect you from his wife's disordered behaviours. Men married to such women are often not at all tolerated; your Dad probably needs someone to idolise so has stayed with his wife. You cannot ever rely on him at all to protect you from her.

I would suggest you look at the websites and read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward. Another I would suggest is "Children of the Self Absorbed" written by Nina W Brown.

FunkyBoldRibena: yes, this was a piece of land my parents owned & about 10 years ago they built a number of small houses there, including mine which was a 'gift'. No they don't live there--nobody lives there. There are other family complications about why the house building took ages & why it didn't feel possible to try & sell earlier (including some passivity on my paret).

What I think I should do, agreeing with your points, is not discuss with my mother anything to do with the house at this point, until the sale goes through. The problem of course is that both my parents are extremely interested in anything to do with the sale, they feel it directly involves the & feel offended when I don't mention it (the word 'ungrateful' is used often).

My strategy over the years has been to reduce contact gradually, which is sad but necessary, and to stick as much as possible to 'safe' conversations. However, recently my mother's behaviour has just flared up considerably, I think because there's a real possibility of the house selling, and the wider reality, after 11 years of me living in the UK, that she can't control me and what I do as much as she feels she'd like to.

I have got help for this, something2say, thanks for your good suggestions. It's not a new issue and I've been helped considerably to deal with it over the years. It's just at the moment it feels there's a final step that needs to be achieved and I find it painful still.

A gift is just that - yours to do what you want with. Wanting to sell the house now does not make you ungrateful that the gift was given. Them wanting you to keep the house suggests that it was never really intended as a 'gift' as much as a tool for emotional blackmail; a gift conditional on you toeing the line, if you will, which says more about them than you. The 'stately homes' thread will offer you a wealth of coping strategies from people treading the same path.

Coming to the conclusion that your parents, instead of protecting you and loving you unconditionally, have actually caused most of the problems you have, does need a change of mindset. It is so sad! One needs to let go of any hope that they will ever change. It seems to me that you have reluctantly now come to that point in your relationship. It is difficult as they are your parents and there will be some good memories and issues of loyalty towards them. Also if they are wealthy it is only human not to want to be cut off. I had a similar situation and was always being threatened. Your Parents will consider the house they gave you theirs. You quite rightly identify their wanting to control you. So what can you do? You can't do anything about changing them as they are NEVER going to change. The best thing to do is to work on not caring about what they think or feel. This is hard your feelings are the only thing that you can control. At 41 you need to get on with your life and you owe it to yourself to be happy. Sell up and inform them by letter. You already recognise that all contact with your Mother is going to be distressing for you, so don't engage or argue with her over the phone. Just state what decisions you have made and if she kicks off stay silent. My stomach used to churn if I had to speak to my DF until I changed my mindset and thought, do I really care what this vicious controlling person thinks? The decision is yours, either they control you still at 41, or you take control. You have my best wishes as I have been there. Despite the threats I got the money in the end ( laughs with glee) and spent it with gusto.

It does sound unendingly painful. It also sounds like your mother is, on the quiet, actively malicious. Maybe only half-consciously. Everyone's advice to not tell her very much sounds like the best option.

Have you got a stock of phrases that you can use to stay neutral?

"that's an interesting view"
"ah, ok, thanks" - when she gives you her opinion
"Im sorry you feel that way" (about the offended/grateful thing).
"very little movement on the house front Im afraid"- might be untrue, but telling her that might shut her up a bit.

Absolutely second what someone said about making sure the estate agent knows not to talk to her / deal with her.

how does your partner see her? Does he support you?

Sell the house!

If you sell the house one big bone of contention between you and your DM is gone.

Ok, there will be some difficult behavior initially but once it is done this big stress will be out of your life. And don't discuss any of the selling with her, be evasive as mentioned above.

Your mother sounds like she is suffering from depression but I don't think it's worth you mentioning this as she will probably bite your head off.
It sounds like a fairly complicated family set up but you are an adult now with your own life and probably your own family so you must now break away from them as they are causing you so much hurt and confusion.
Sell the house and use the money to create a good life for yourself. They are going to be angry at you but it sounds as if they are always angry anyway so you might as well just get on with it.
They may well cut you from their lives but that is their choice and as you have given them no reason to do so then it really is down to them. Hold your head up high. Be strong and stand up to them so that you can go forward in your own life.

Sell the house!
Wrt your mother...talk about the weather, silly irrelevant things.
Sad, but it's the only way to deal with narcs.
Don't feed them,
They are like drama vampires.

So it wasn't really a gift as such then, it was a "gift" that they expect to still have control over, is that right?
Do they still own the land on which it stands, or is the house freehold? I really hope it's freehold.

I would imagine one of the reasons that they are unwilling to see you sell the house is because they think that if you still own it, there is still a chance that one day you will come back and live there, eh?

Sell the house through the agents and don't tell your mother until the sale goes through.
Stop phoning her, wait for her to phone you and if she starts on at you about anything, tell her the doorbell has just rung and you have to go now.
Or, if you feel strong enough, just tell her that you're too old to put up with her self-centred shit any more and you have to go now.

You will never change her, by the way. She's been like this unchallenged her whole life - but you don't have to put up with it either. You can tell her to leave you alone, but it might cause problems with your sister(s).

Do they have the same problems with her as you do?

OP, if you decide to sell your house be prepared on what your family will do. Your mum might start ignoring you and give you cold treatment and the rest of your family will probably do the same.

Her reactions in selling yourhouse is just the tip of the iceberg. I suggest you read more about NPD and toxic parents before making a move that your mother will make you feel bad about yourself.

Thanks so much to everyone who has taken the time to respond. It's been really useful reading all this.

In the last yearsince last summer really when I visited my parents for a longish period of timeI've realised that limited contact is the way to go. And when I do have contact, it needs to be careful & ideally not to touch on thorny subjects. Not always easy of course as it's not I, necessarily, who always opens difficult discussions but they too.

I do believe my mother suffers from longstanding problems, probably including a form of deep depression / negativity, exarcerbated hugely by the death of her mother last year. Since then she's frankly been impossible. She does say she feels very angry at peoplethat's some sort of limited insightbut basically has zero psychological insight of the wider repercussions of her behaviour or how hurtful it can be. I would never even try to have any such discussion with her. I have no hope she would understand anything of that kind. It's very sad really as all this radically limits her life.

As for the house: I need to make all movements without letting my parents know much about it all & expect that when the contracts are exchanged it'll be a difficult period as they'll probably feel I'm bypassing them, being ungrateful, withholding, selfish etc. I do believe and hope that perhaps once it happens they'll eventually calm down. I'll keep you posted.

Oh and I would appreciate, if someone has it, a link to the wider thread about stately homes that someone mentioned? Is it about this sort of family relationship?

Thanks again.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2063324-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families

Current Stately Homes thread.