after 2 decades of abuse (sorry very long)

[redletterbox]

just don't know what to do now...

for 2 decades, my dd suffered at the hands of a physical/emotional and financial abuser.
dd lost everything she had worked so hard for , she was a lawyer with own firm.
her career (she was the breadwinner, he refused to work, thought he was "above it"
almost ended up in prison through his financial abuse.

he isolated her from her family, she actually turned against us due to his abuse, as her dm, she went nc for a few years
.i was totally demonised!.

through a mutual acquaintance I heard many times how he had beaten her, besides emotionally abusing her- tearing up clothes, smashing sentimental objects, the list goes on.

twice I reported it to the police- who were amazing, and understanding-.
I made and signed statements re domestic violence.
but each time she denied anything was wrong.

well, after fleeing the country, to "make a new start", eventually she contacted me to beg for forgiveness and help.
the pattern had continued- no surprise there- he had thrown her out of the house she was working-again- to pay for, and moved his new gf in.

dd was virtually homeless in a foreign country,and to destroy her further, he rang her employers to tell them the backstory, needless to say she was fired instantly.

anyway, fast forward a few years, dd is again established financially, but desperate to return to us in the uk.
her ex was actually deported from the country, giving her space to come to terms with the violent past and horrific years.
by now her 2 dd's(22 and 23) have returned to the uk where my dd is hoping to follow.

this is the bottom line.

for her children to return, their d(!) f has allowed them to stay with him, until dd manages to return herself.

they are all fully aware re his violent past but it's a case of "if needs must" and they have moved in with him.
they are quite a distance from me, but we communicate text/email/Skype often.
they are staying with us for a few days now, and we have a very loving relationship.
my problem(?) is this.

I can never forgive or forget the violent abuse from this man, in fact he filled me with fear and dread for years, not only for myself but for dd.
I had a police "red marker" on my home, as he would make threats against me, even when I was in nc with dd.
he just wanted to cause as much hurt and pain as he could.

BUT, I arrange the time to pick up my granddaughters, but refuse to communicate with him, don't/ can't bear to see his face or hear his voice,

it makes me physically ill even at the mention of his name (so much more happened it would take too long to write)
it would make life much easier if I could bear to be in the same room as him, but I can't/wont.

Should I , for my granddaughters sake, not that they want me too,they accept he mustn't contact me, but would it be easier all round if agreed to "bury the hatchet"--yes I know----- and speak to him when I collect my gdd's?(granddaughters)

If your granddaughters are in their twenties (am I reading that right) they have to make their own decisions and listen to their own consciences, not expect you to bury the hatchet to make their lives easier. I don't understand why they have to live with their father. Surely they should be independent?

Can't they live with you?

Why do you have you have to pick them up as well? Are they incapable of driving or using public transport?

Sorry posted too soon.

Are your DGDs at risk by living with this man?

I don't think you necessarily have to bury the hatchet, you just have to avoid inflaming the situation I'd imagine, incase he decides to take it out on them or jeopardize your DDs plans?

What does your DD want you to do?

I think I'd just try and maintain a polite, calm but distant exterior. Hard though that sounds.

well, my granddaughters,understand totally why we don't communicate with their father, it's just that it could be easier , maybe, if there could be a civil exchange when they are collected, instead of parking around the corner.

they have to live with him, as they were brought up abroad, have no qualifications, but are looking for work, and at the moment have no options other than live with him.

unfortunately , I live in a small coastal village, in an area where work is rarely available.
they can't afford a car, and public transport-train return fares- is prohibitive.
they are not at risk of him, now he is older and really is attempting to show that he is perfect and it was all my dd's doing.

he initially attempted to jeopardize dd's plans, by telling her that he was going to give up his rental property a month after they came over, so they would be homeless,(also cursed me again, ha, I didn't even know what was being planned).

dd says "it'll be okay mum, I can handle him" meaning that even though he still bombs her life with idle threats she understands how his mind works.

I suppose that it's me who feels that such hate and nastiness which shadows my life from this man, makes me want to make everything better.
forgive and forget, but it's too deep, how he made us all feel in fear of our lives for so long.(threats to burn dd's house down with her in it etc)

he is over 50 now, yet changing spots doesn't appear to be in his vocabulary
I dunno, maybe it's better to keep things as they are,
his name is never mentioned,but it makes me feel "dirty"

I think you have to hold firm and not subject yourself to him. It's a shame that your granddaughters have to live with him but it is not acceptable for them to expect you to be around him and feel comfortable about it. I would respectfully suggest that if you told your DGDs that you can only see them once they have jobs and a place of their own - however humble - it would motivate them to get cracking. At the moment they are reliant on him and he's exploiting the situation to still get at you and your DD

yes, that's true,
he is exploiting them, controlling us yet again.

it is dd's plans to return to the uk as soon as it is financially viable, as she will need a new family home and work.

her 2 dd's are desperate for her to return.

they are adamant that they don't want to return to the country they were brought up in, so basically they are just biding their time until their mum can come back.

they are under no illusion regarding their fathers atrocious behaviour throughout their childhood- physically and verbally attacking their mother for years-but in order to establish themselves in the uk, they have no other option just yet.

they have managed to find pt work, and are seriously looking for ft, in order to support themselves.

I just find it so difficult at my time of life to be aware/involved in such dysfunction in 2 generations of my familys' life.

you know, even if I won that lottery, it would be so difficult to support my dd, as I know that her ex, the controlling evil narcissist that he surely is, would manage to acquire/obtain anything I gave her, using emotional and violent means to take what he considers is his right.

I don't know, surely life shouldn't be like this for so long, a torturous road that is still winding on.

You have to take a big step back. I realise it's easier said than done but your DD and your DGDs are all adults, all capable of making their own decisions and they have to do this without a safety-net. You've made your decisions and they sound like better ones.

What a thoroughly disgusting person. However, although I understand why you can never forgive him but you just cannot fight your children's battle for them. Boy, with five of them myself I so want to protect them from hurt and harm, but it is just not possible. Your daughter caused you a great deal of pain as well by sticking by this monster but you have forgiven her because she is your flesh and blood. No one is asking you to forget what happened but you have to fight this slime ball by his own rules. If he can have 5 faces, so can you. You are not making things easier for him, you are making it easier for your DGD's and DD by being civil. Lul the B...... Into a false sense of security. Also hanging onto such pain may be very bad for your well being. I don't know you, but I love you and think you are one brave woman.

I learned early on, that it was impossible to react to his abuse, it would only come back fivefold,and haunt me/us for sure.

no, the main issue I have is that neither him nor I have any communication, he has explained to granddaughters it's because of the "red mark" by police on my house, though this was from 6 years ago.-they understand this perfectly.

that is the problem, hanging on to so much pain for so many years, and I just wondered if I could release that hurt by actually forgiving and forgetting, though in reality I know I could never do that, it is deeply ingrained in me.

I have tried to be brave, dealing with such abuse directed between my dd and myself, trying to appear strong yet inside I was crumbling.
my dd carries extreme guilt regarding her behaviour towards me for years.
fortunately, or unfortunately, I live a long distance away, and have no fear that I could accidentally bump into him, but the contact with granddaughters simply drags up the horror of the last few years.
yes, they are all adults, but it's heartbreaking to acknowledge that so much trauma became such a large part of our lives.

if you met/saw, him you would think he is a lovely person, smiley, joking and everyone's friend.
the reality being he has defrauded a widow, tormented very old people, terrified his dsis, besides my dd driving to beachy head one fateful night, only to be stopped by police when she used her mobile phone.

maybe i'm not as brave and strong as I thought I was?

No contact no communication .... girls are old enough to walk out of the house and into a car it gains nothing and risks lots.

Girls need to realise effect on other people of their actions and not be selfish. They are old enough to comprehend so old enough to accept.

I don't think you're 'hanging onto pain'. He's an odious man who has done some horrendously bad things. You'd have to be daft to want to be within 10 miles of him. Your dilemma is that you have 2 granddaughters, seemingly immobile and dependent on him even though they are in their twenties, and you believe you have to go through him to have a relationship with them when I don't think you do. I'm sure they have mobiles, Skype and so forth. If they want a relationship with you they should really make more of an effort... not the other way around.

I don't understand why she was sacked from her job...what's the back-story? Or have I missed something?

Why do you have to pick them up from his house? There must be some way of arranging a neutral ground for this. I personally wouldn't go anywhere near to his house. They are big girls and this can so easily be avoided.

They are not 'big girls', they are adult women. I think the OP is still seeing them as vulnerable children however. Correct me if I'm wrong OP.

well, I text them when I have arrived and meet them around the corner, to void contact.
I agree, they are both adults now, it's almost as though he is still controlling our lives-well, only access that's for sure-

I do accept they are adults yet feel the guilt of the suffering they endured from the time they were born.
I offered a way out for dd even in the early days, but she didn't want to "break the family up" so a message for anyone in a similar position.

I suppose I am getting older, and find it harder to deal with issues that I had hoped had disappeared, but I have to accept that he will always be in my life, my dd's also.

maybe once dd comes back to the uk, things will feel different.
sometimes I just think the only way for me to let go of the years of misery and heartache is to walk away from it all.

"I do accept they are adults yet feel the guilt of the suffering they endured from the time they were born."

How could you have realistically prevented their suffering? How does your guilt constructively improve your granddaughters' lives now? You directly offered your DD help at the time but it was rejected. That was a decision she made for herself and her DCs, even if it was under duress or she later realised it was a mistake. Those of us who have experienced friends or family in DV relationships can only ever offer help, we can't force it on someone. Feeling guilty brings nothing to the party.

I repeat. Your granddaughters, like their mother before them, have choices. They have to make their own decisions based on their own values, not force you to compromise your values to make their lives easier.

I agree with Cogito. These are not children, they are adults. This is not your guilt, it is his.

FWIW, my dd1 is 16 and although she 'hates' her dad and has gone total NC since Christmas, she's now asking about talking to him on the phone. She knows what he is (she was the golden yet most abused child) and she knows what he did to me (investigation ongoing into serious sexual abuse etc) but he is still her dad. She still loves him too. And that is fine - she is almost an adult, she has the right to make her own decisions wrt a relationship with him.

So, although they are staying with him as a stop gap, don't underestimate the potential strength of their love for him too, even if they profess not to.

OP, what is stopping your DD from upping sticks and returning to the UK to be with her daughters?

And how exactly did your DD's ex get her fired?

Lesnewth, sadly it's finances preventing my dd upping up sticks and coming back to the uk.

also, her ex, was privy to confidential issues, ones that he had actually caused himself previously.
so, basically dd is between a rock and hard place just now.

TisILeclerc, thank you I understand under-estimating their relationship with their father, could actually make them feel guilty that they have a "relationship" with him. after all, they were his victims too throughout their childhood.
they have never discussed him, even in casual conversations, not that I would want them to .
so, I will simply carry on supporting my dd, and hope that one day soon, we will be reunited again.