Sad about end of friedship

[emkana]

I'm feeling quite sad at the moment about the end of a long and very good friendship. Britt, my friend's name, started going to the same school as me when we were 16, and we soon became very good friends. She went to university in a different town, but we still saw a lot of each other and remained close. Over the last three years we have spoken less and less, and now she has made it clear to me that she can't bear to speak to me anymore. The reason is that she can't have children, and it hurts her too much to hear about my daughters. I feel so sad about it, but I know that I just have to accept it. I'm angry with myself for not finding the right words to say to her, and angry with her for letting this come between us. But mainly really sad... has anyone been in a similar situation? I hope so much that we can be friends again one day, when she has come to terms with her situation.

oh emkana, what a sad message. I am so sorry that such a good friend has decided to part company with you. I take it you have talked about this, so you are sure it's the fact that you have children and she can't have any that is the problem.

I have never been in this situation, but as a practical suggestion, can you agree to swap contact numbers - you parents number and her parents number, so if she wants to talk to you in years to come, she knows how to trace you?

Taking the long term view - you will not always have children. Your daughters will one day be adults and fly the nest. More to the point, your friend's feelings and situation are more fluid. She may not always be childless. Miracles do happen. She may concieve one day. She may adopt or end up with a man who already had children. She even might, in a few years time, not want children so much and be happy she is free of motherhood.

Can you find a way of telling her you will always be friends and you would always love to hear from her, even if she contacts you 20 years from now. But right now you will break regular contact if that is what she wants. That is an act of friendship - respecting her feelings.

Can you write her a letter, adding some contact numbers for good measure?

I doubt you could find the right words- and I;m sure she will get over it. If I was you I'd write a letter and say that you understand and you hope you can see more of each other in the future and that you will be sending xmas cards and will welcome her back into your life whenever she can bear it.

I kind of understand how she feels as I still find it very very difficult to mix with people with normal children. In fact I can't do it except in short bursts. ALthough it is getting easier as time passes. Has she found a support group- as having a group of people who are in the same siutation and so really understand can make it easier to deal with the real world. I doubt that anything you could have said would have made any difference- so don;t feel guilty yourself. Just let her know that you will always be around.

I' sure she will get over it sounds a bit hard- what I mean is that I'm sure she will come to some sort of acceptance on the future- or as tigermoth says her circumstances may change. Don't think the friendship has gone forever- its just too hard for her now.

emkana, this is just an idea but what if you suggest to her that you won't discuss children at all while you're together? Just don't even raise the subject of kids (yours or anyone else's!) and base your conversation on other things. When you get together with her, just make it the two of you, instead of involving your dh or the kids. Perhaps you could either go to her place, or meet at a cafe or the movies or something. This way she can just concentrate on the friendship without thinking about the subject of children - after all, surely the friendship means more to her?

If this doesn't work, then at least you've tried and you might have to just let it go. It worked for me several years ago, my best friend has two children and I didn't have any at that stage. She was great, she hardly ever discussed her children and we still tried to do some of the things that we used to do. I think it can work... good luck anyway.

Can you meet without your children and just not talk about them? That's what I do with my friend who has tried for children for more than 5 years now. At the moment she finds it difficult to see me because I am pregnant and I just have to accept that eventhough I have to admit I find it hard to understand sometimes. I tend not to talk about my children to my childless friends either as it bores them to tears. It's difficult to completely avoid the subject of children because it's such a bit part of your life I think, but that's what I do. I hope you can maintain your friendship somehow.

I think that can work to an extent. Certainly I find it much easier to see friends who DON"T endlessly talk about all the WONDERFUL things they are doing with their kids.

However if she has made it clear that she can't talk to you (how did she do that? did she actually say it?) then even that may be too much at the moment and it may be best to give her space. To a certain extent she has to find a way to deal with it because you can't go through life getting rid of friends because they have kids. This is why I think she will find a way to come to terms with it.

What age are your children? If they are very young it might be easier once they are no longer babuies/toddlers. Certainly I find it much easier to see people who have children a different age from ds1- I would imagine once your children are past the baby/toddler stage it won't be something she identifies with so much.

If it were me I would call her, tell her I love her and that I'll always be at the end of the phone and ready to rekindle the friendship if she feels able. I'd also say that I felt sad about the situation but that I'm trying to see it from her point of view. I would continue to send cards on special occassions (containing a short letter) and change of address cards etc

I had a friend like this. Actually she was a work colleague but we worked closely together and became good friends. She was slightly older than me and I must admit that I was a bit surprised when she said that she had plenty of time for starting a family - considering we were both in our mid-late 30s at the time (I was 37 when I had DS1). She left work to go abroad for 6 months to visit her sister in Australia. When she got back she took a job with another firm so we only met occasionally. I met her again some time later when I had DS1 and DS2 with me and I thought it was very odd that, not only did she not ask about them, but she avoided actually looking at them. I later found out that, once she did decide to start a family, she had serious problems and would probably never have a baby. Further, because of her age, many of the procedures to assist conception were unavailable to her. She has cut off all contact and I find this very sad. At the end of the day, she isn't going to be able to avoid meeting people who have children and it seems a shame that the ones she breaks ties with are friends. I suspect though, in my case, our situations had been so similar for so long but I had gone on to have a much-wanted family, whereas she couldn't.

Is it absolutely certain that your friend can't have children? Who knows what the future holds?

Oh hon' that's so sad. I have reecently lost an old friend through something very silly that got bigger and bigger and I saw a side of her I didn't like. it's very painful and you go through quite a long greiving process. She appears in a lot of my dreams and every now and then I feel a stab of pain when I think about the friendship we once had ands I miss it. However that feeling is shortlived as I begin to realise that she isn't the friend i thought she was and that if she can say and do the things she has, she was never really my friend.

While I accept it is difficult for your friend that she can't have children and it must hurt her to hear about other kids I think she's cutting her nose off to spite her face and has treated you unfairly. Is she going to hide herself away from the world, never make friends with anyone else that is or becomes a mother or a father. She's pushed away a good friend who could support her in her feelings and isolated herself.

You'll always miss the old her but perhaps the person she has become since finding she can't have kids is a person you're better off not having in your life, a least for a while??

I DO feel for her but she really isn't doing her self any favours and until she can accept you as a friend and a mother, and can accept your family unit then she can never be a friend to you. All you can do is get on with your life and be willing to accept her back in your life if she sorts her head out.

Sorry if I seem harsh but due to my current situation I've made that part of my heart quite cold iykwim.

I can only write from the heart and I'm sorry if you feel I've been harsh on your friend as she is obviously in pain due to her situation, but if she's not allowing you to be a friend to her and has locked you out of her life....

Anyway, I hope it all turns out the way you want.

Lots of love, TC x

btw - I agree that you should still send card on special poccaisions but apart from that I do feel you should get on with your life and wait for her to come back to you if that's what she chooses to do.

Sorry again that you're in this horrid situation.

emkana, that's such a shame for you and your friend, I think a short card telling you love her and will be here for her if she needs you?
The same thing happened to my brother and his best friend from Uni: my brother and his wife had two children, but his friend and his wife were having problems conceiving and they couldn't face seeing my brother anymore because of it. They only started seeing them again once they finally had a daughter. I would give your friend some space, but also make sure she knows you love her.
Good luck!

TC- I don't know about your situation but I can understand where this woman is coming from. It may be that she just can't do it at the moment. It doesn't make it right, but I do understand it. For example I found that if I see too much of some people then it gets me so down that I just spend half of every evening crying (with dh saying "oh for god's sake just stop seeing them). In my case I've found that providing I see these people for short periods of time, or chat on the phone then its fine.

I was talking to a friend the other day and she used some words that really interested me- I noticed them as she said them- because I thought it was strange but very true. She had had a long term friend visit (who has NT kids) and she said her friend had been talking about them and her holidays etc with them and she said "so I had to cope with that" and then there was more stuff that had got on top of her. What she meant was that she had to smile, say the right things and be sociable and that was hard work for her at the moment. She did it, but probably couldn't do it too often.

I suspect this woman feels the same. It is sad, and she does have to find some sort of way to deal with it, but I can understand why she feels this way. It's no reason to break a friendship, but it may be a reason (for her own mental health) to not see someone so often, or to reduce contact a bit.

JimJams - I didn't say I didn't understand her, I said I DID understand but I'm saying that Emkana can't do much about it. I've advised her, from my personal point of view, to get on with her life and be there for her friend when she is ready. I have acknowledged that her freind is in pain but she's locked emkana out of her life for now so what can she do apart from wait for this woman to accept the fact that she is a friend but also a mother.

It is sad yes, but as you say she has to find a way to deal with it, or she risks isolating herself from everyone.

I feel for her, obviously I do, but I also feel for emkana in this situation as well. She's just lost her friend and is understandably angry, hurt, sad etc.

I know when I take Lottie to a party and she is the only 2 year old being carried round by people, it hurts. I can relate and I sympathise. I'm not saying my situation is the same and it pales into insignificance compared to this woman who can't have children at all it would seem at the moment.

I hope the pair of them can get back what they once had.

Well looking at it from the other side here, we took 3 years to conceive dd and yes it was sometimes a bit painful hearing about other people getting pregnant and having children, especially when they had been trying for a month and it happened first time.

I never avoided them though as (a) it wasn't their fault and (b) it didn't upset me seeing their kids because I didn't want their kids, I wanted one of my own IYKWIM! (also tbh they always looked so knackered and harrassed that I was sometimes quite relieved LOL!)

I did have a couple of (male) friends who were really insensitive - kept saying "oh come on, when are you going to squeeze one out" etc and I think the worst night was when we were in switzerland and stayed at some good friends' parents for the night, his dad got really drunk and harangued me for not having children, told me that my life would be pointless without them etc (he thought we had decided not to bother, I didn't correct him as it wasn't his business). I felt really great after that.

I don't think seeing her and not talking about your children is the answer, that would be false and awkward and probably make her feel worse. I should just respect her wishes and if she has a baby then hopefully she will come back to you. Do make it clear to her that you understand and that she should never feel awkward about re-kindling your relationship under any circumstances.

HTH

Good post CD

Emkana - I feel sad for you about your friendship. Like the others, I don't think you've lost this friendship for ever. When I conceived with my dd 11.5 years ago my twin sister and her dh had been trying for a couple of years - (we weren't trying to conceive). They are still trying. She does tend to lavish elaborate gifts on my children (which is fine ) and sometimes she'll try to arrange things with the children without checking with me first. Then other times we won't see them for weeks on end. It's just her way of dealing with it so I turn a blind eye. My older sis and her dh have been trying for about 5 years too.

I can come at this from the other side. As lots of you know we have got to have IVF to attempt to conceive, even though I hope that we can do it naturally if God smiles on me! Several of my close girlfriends have said they found it hard to talk to me about their pregnancies/children. I explained it this way; although I am unable to conceive as you are it doesn't mean I don't share the joy of your pregnancy, it doesn't mean that I'm not delighted for you and it doesn't mean that I don't want to enjoy your child growing up either. Sure, there are days when I scream at the television when I see another teen mum tottering behind a buggy, or when I hear people complaining that it took them all of 4 months to conceive, and I still cry when people I personally don't think deserve children seem to pop them out! I would imagine your friend is going through that awful angry destroying phase. It get's me sometimes too, when I lie awake at night and think that all my life I was just waiting for the moment when I would look down on my babies face. You spend so much time trying NOT to get pregnant that when you can't you feel cheated.

I agree that you should let her know you still love her, that you still want her in you life but understand the pain she must be feeling not having children of her own. Suggest a girls only evening, or a shopping trip.

If all else fails, then there's no-one that can help her except herself and if she wants to wallow in self pity and hatred for the child filled world there is little you can do to help her.

BeckiF Made me cry

Big hugs to you ((()))) Really hope it happens soon.

A wonderful post Becki and I too hope it happens for you very soon. Lots of love to you, x.

Lets hope emkhan's friend doesn't wallow in self-pity and hatred as you say for very much longer and allows a good friend back into her life.

emkana, I don't want to be rude or anything, but maybe she feels that you've been insensitive towards her and her situation? I'm not saying that you have, because you've probably just been normal, but she's in a hypersensitive place at the moment. I think you should respect her wishes and move on, leaving the door open. You may be willing to see her and not talk about your kids but that doesn't sound like an option from her pov.

if its any help, a friend did this to me a few years ago - stopped sending cards, never in - though nothing actually ever said but i knew she had been having fertility treatment etc and guessed as it all stopped when i told her i was pregnant. BUT, a few months ago she rang me out of the blue (I'd kept her on the xmas/change of address card list) and asked if i wanted to go to a concert with her, we went and now are all (dhs too) friends again - as they have now come to terms with the sad fact that it seems they are unable to have children, and have reached a sort of peace about it. So I'd say go with it for now but keep the lines open in a low key way - eg, send xmas cards (maybe from you and dp not mentioning the kids?), etc, and leave it up to her to pursue it later if she wants to?

thanks everyone for your kind words und good advice. The problem is that she lives in Germany and I live in England, so it's difficult to just meet up for an hour or two - she spent a weekend with us when dd1 was nearly a year old and I think seeing a child so closely was the last thing she needed. I will do what several of you suggested - write to her to say that I'll always be there when she wants me to be.
The last time I heard from her 'properly' was after the birth of dd2 seven months ago - she wrote me an e/mail saying congratulations and that she would phone if she found herself in the right mood - adding that this was very rarely, if ever, the case these days. Haven't heard from her since, apart from Xmas, when she sent another e/mail. What REALLY hurt me was that this was one of those e/mails which is addressed to several people - and I could see that she had written to people we used to know on a very casual basis at school. I found it really sad that she put me on the same level as these mere acquaintances - when we used to be such close friends. Surely she could have written a personal Xmas message, it only needed to say "Merry Xmas, love from Britt"
Or am I being unfair?

No I don't think you're being unfair, not at all. We all understand that she feels sad, angry, hurt and so on, and everyone can sympathise that it must be incredibly difficult for her. However I can't help but feel she hasn't exactly been very fair to you in all this, you've been firends for a long time and I think it's sad she feels she has to cut you out of her life altoghether.

No you're not being unfair. But it sounds as if she is seriously having problems with it all at the moment (and I suspect you are right about the visit being too much at close quarters). I don't think she's bitter and twisted. I think she probably can't handle it that's all. And by withdrawing it leaves the friendship intact to pick up at a time when she can handle it iyswim. I hope she's getting support from people in the same situation as it sounds as if she needs it.

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