Help & Advice needed - I'm desperate

[ConfusedSon]

Hi,
Firstly I'm not your normal mumsnet poster as I'm not a mum. In fact I'm a late twenties son looking for advice & help from other mums perspective over how my mum has been acting recently. I'll start from the beginning:

I got engaged recently to my beautiful fiancé, we decided we wanted a small intimate wedding abroad just immediate family only and then a large party back in the UK at a later date so everyone else can celebrate.

We initially picked Thailand as we both love South East Asia & found a stunning hotel we could get married in. We then mentioned this plan to my mum, who to put it politely didn't like this idea - granted she isn't the most confident of traveller, but at this stage it was just an idea & we wanted to gauge other peoples thoughts.
A large row then commenced, now I generally have a good relationship with my mum and we hardly row. But this was a full on screaming match (I hold my hands up to the part I played, it takes two to argue) but she was calling me names, bringing up things from the past from years ago and then decided in fact we only picked Thailand because we knew my finances parents could go and my family was just an after thought - Which is an utter fabrication, my fiancés parents were almost told at the exact time.

Now after we all calmed down (as dad got involved and my fiancé got involved) me and my other half decided that having family there was important to us so we would need to change the destination. Second on our list was Italy, but before we even looked at venues etc. I spoke to mum and said if we did it in Italy would you be able to travel there, she said yes.

Now 3 weeks later everyone is booked, accommodation sorted and a stunning venue found, we are all now looking forward to the day or so I thought....

Mum is now continually picking fights with me about everything, about the way we have planed the wedding (it's only 3 months away), about how we have not yet told extended family our plans (give us a chance it was only booked last week!). But she is now getting very personal, calling me names, slagging off my character, saying we don't want them there (we moved out wedding to another continent for her!), bringing up the past with texts like "you've always taken us for granted" and won't drop, forget or forgive the argument we had, it's as if she wants to constant re-live it everyday.

Now I'm a bloke and I know mums would like us to be more in touch with our emotions but I'm not a bad egg. I was not a problem child, I did will at school, I've worked since I was 17, I left home at 20 and been financially independent ever since. So I'm not sure where all this resentment is stemming from? And now when I open up to her and say "your making me feel bad" or "you are making me and my soon to be wife feel you don't want us to marry" she doesn't say sorry, she accuses me of saying that just to be cruel and has the cheek to say "oh it's always about you isn't it" - so one minute I'm too closed off, then next I'm one of these people who is all me me me?

I can't get through to her, and in less than a month my relationship with my mum is rock bottom, and she even text me to say "there is no relationship left". I'm getting married in 3 months, what rational mother thinks throwing around statements like that so close to a life defining event is a good idea? She twists everything into a negative, anytime we talk on the phone she says "why say it in that tone" or if I message her and forget to put a 'kiss' on the end it's because I'm a bad child. So I've decided to ignore her for a week or so, but then get a barrage of texts telling me I'm "not making enough of an effort", "if I don't contact her today the entire family will know what you think of them"

I try and find excuses for my mum, I believe she is going through the menopause and do stand up for her. But my fiancé sees or hears all that she says, and now she is upset for me and she now thinks my mum doesn't approve of our me marrying her, because there is no rationale for verbal abuse I'm getting.

I'm out of ideas and I'm exhausted. And I can't find excuses for her anymore, she is hell bent on creating an atmosphere for the entire lead up to the wedding and no doubt on the day. I'm considering asking her not to come.

Congratulations!

Your mum's jealous and very very angry. She sees your getting married as her being supplanted as the most important woman in your life. Now your fiancee will be the most important and your mum can't take it.

She may have no idea why she's acting the way she is, she may hate it and hate herself for being like this, particularly as you suggest this is completely out of character. She may not be aware of how she's behaving. Perhaps your dad is reasoning with her behind the scenes, pointing out what you are doing to accommodate her etc, perhaps he's just wandering around saying "yes dear", who knows?

I think you could enrol your uncle in a quiet way, at least as someone who knows her very very well who can sympathise and listen to you, not so much as someone who could take any action. He may be the one who can reason with her about things like you having changed all the plans to accommodate her etc, maybe your siblings could do it, but you need someone she'll listen to to quietly mention these things, almost in passing.

Twinklestein, what did your sister do? How did your mum behave on the day? Does your sister forgive your mum? Because honestly at the moment I feel this is something I won't be able to forgive her for, forget maybe until the DP gets the wedding album out!

I'm gonna speak to dad more, try and get him to see my 'side' but will have to do it softlysoftly - although patients & time are two things I'm short of at the moment! My youngest sibling still lives with them but he depends on the roof over his (and his girlfriends) head far too much for him to disagree with my mum so he is no use.

You could try speaking to your Dad but you may not get very far with him. He has also failed here to protect you from his wife's mad excesses of behaviour. He may well be acting here out of self preservation and want of a quiet life; he is also playing a role here in
this overall dysfunction.

I think she is well aware of what she is doing; she gets power and control from all of her dealings with you. You have already changed a wedding venue at her bidding.

BTW what if anything do you know about her own childhood?.

And DO NOT whatever you do link this thread of yours to your mother. She will use that simply as another stick to beat you with. You need to realise that although she is your mother, she is inherently unreasonable and thus not open to any other opinion other than her own.

Looking at her mum & dad, Her mum is very controlling. She is a lovely 'grandmother' but I know she gave my mum a hard time.
It used to be a running joke, my Nan's behaviour at family get togethers etc. as she always needed to be centre of attention, would always criticise etc. etc.
Ironically because of it my mum would always try to be the opposite.

Maybe she has now after all these years turned into my Nan?
Maybe because my Nan had such a control over her life and the way she did things my Mum is now resenting that I'm doing things "My Way" but if
that's how she brought me up, how can she now be upset about it?

Do we all turn into our parents eventually? I could never put my future kids through this.

Me and DP are funding the wedding ourselves, no gift list, we not asking for material things, we just want them to be there and give us their support.
Just because my Mum has never come out and said "We don't want you to do this" doesn't mean the constant goading and character assassinations make us feel that way anyway! But when I say to her it feels like I'm getting no support, I'm told "I've NEVER SAID THAT" And "You're only saying that to be cruel"

Congratulations:)

Personally I wouldn't give her any tasks apart from just come and enjoy my wedding and be nice. I also wouldn't talk anymore about the argument, as you haven't done anything wrong - apart from react to someone who knows you very well pushing your buttons. Men are allowed to get stressed about weddings as well:)

Get your siblings onside . I assume you are in contact with them directly and not through her? Do they live at home?

Don't change any more plans for her or run things by her- its just asking for trouble. Is your mil to be helping? Really, just concentrate on your wedding and being happy. Don't let her spoil it. If she threatens she won't come just say " oh, that's a shame, I'll cancel your room then" I think she might try this next, then interfere with allowing your df and siblings to attend.

Make sure you copy everyone on email arrangements, don't let her control that. ( experience, sadly)

Menopause sends some people completely, properly, mental. It sounds like this could well be happening here.

It also could be that the abuse she suffered as a child is coming home to roost, and something about this situ is triggering those wounds (which would be significant wounds btw).

If you've had a good relationship with her up til now then try and weather this the best you can, putting boundaries in place but not aggressively. I tell you, as parents we have to live with exactly this sort of behaviour from our (usually late teen/early 20s) offspring, perhaps it's more of the same when it's in fact a parent behaving appallingly. It's poor behaviour but, and I hesitate to say this, we are hearing your side of it and it could be that you have been selfish and thoughtless in the past but she has kept quiet. I'm not excusing her but the fact that you're both screaming at one another shows you both care and are both hurt.

This won't be popular but I am similarly pissed off when b&g organise weddings abroad as it excludes huge swathes of the family: marriages/weddings have for centuries been about family but now it's about the b&g, which takes getting used to and does appear 'selfish'. It's a new age and perhaps she's struggling to accommodate it.

well, it could be if your gran was such a forceful personality, that she planned and controlled your parents wedding, and in that generation, their parents normally paid, they got married younger and their parents make the decisions, it wasn't the bride and Groom's day, but their parents. Often they thought they'd have their turn when their DCs grew up, but our generation is getting married later, able to pay for it ourselves and deciding what we want, so people like your mum missed out being the one 'in charge'.

It could also be that she always deferred to her mum at social occasions, being 'trained' that the oldest woman is the one who should be the centre of attention and getting 'looked after' and now it's her turn, but the rules have changed, you aren't pandering to her, so she's kicking off to make it all about her. She's been taught that stroppy up gets your own way.

I think you need to step back emotionally and just treat her as a guest, don't expect help or support, try to ignore her tantrums and stop talking to people about it, act like there's no prblem, if your dad wants to talk to you about it, he can.

She's not going to support you, so don't ask for it or complain, you'll only make your wedding a source of upset. Arrange everything with your bride to be and her family, are they being helpful at least?

Ignore drama llama statements about no relationship left etc, things like that should have an emotion-free response like "I'm sorry you feel that way." she wants you to rush to 'fix' this, don't.

Sadly, my parents weirdness about my wedding ended up getting far worse when I had DCs, coming to a head when I had a miscarriage between DCs 1&2 which went a bit wrong, and it all twisted round to being her trauma and all about her.

Do'nt pander, nip it in the bud, emotionally distance. I would make a huge effort with your PILs, you might need to lean on them a bit over the next few years if you're mum is a drama llama. (My sane MIL is a rock!)

oh and what springydaffs says is right, weddings have always been family 'events' - not really about the two people getting married. Because couples are gettng married later, rarely to someone from the same town/community and the assumption is now that the bride and groom pays, it understandably becomes more about the couple than a community/family event.

If every wedding you've been to up to now has been a family event where the key people have really been the 2 sets of parents, then realising that things are different and you're more sidelined to 'guest' status could be hard to deal with. (I have noticed though, for every parent who feels this way, few suddenly offer to hand over £10k to pay for the wedding to be done 'their way').

I wouldn't want the wedding to be about me, the parent, but I would want it to be about family, not just b&g.

I think the comments about weddings abroad, and me maybe she has been harbouring feelings about me in my childhood are fair.

Me & DP live abroad though, and a lot further away from the UK than Italy. Both sets of parents live in different parts of the UK so our wedding would have always involved travelling whatever we did.
The alternative was to have a shotgun wedding and invite no one - and honestly, I believe my Mum would be happier with that than she is now!

We can't have nor want a "traditional wedding" in the truest sense, but we are sticking by most traditions just on a smaller more intimate scale. My parents role is the same wether it was a small wedding abroad or a big wedding in the UK except not as many guests will see my mum in her hat.
Our wedding is all about family, No friends are invited! If you are not a mother father brother or sister then you are invited to an evening reception in the UK at a later date.

My MIL, FIL & BIL have been outstanding, helpful, understanding, supportive, everything I could ask for!

There might also be an element of seeing you settle down in the other country that's upsetting, you're not "coming home" to get married. (Even though you're also not getting married in the country you currently live in).

There was a thread about "destination weddings" when someone mentioned that it was wrong for her sister to not have the wedding 'at home', when it transpired her sister lived in this other country, the MNer didn't consider that to her sister, the UK wasn't 'home' anymore, but the other country, she wasn't having a 'distation wedding' she was having a wedding near where she lived. For a lot of family members of people living overseas, they tend to think of you as "working away" not "living somewhere else" - there's a difference that because they see England as home, you are odd that you don't anymore.

Your mum's angst could be also tied up in the fact you have gone away, and don't consider her home to be your home enough to want to get married there. Facing that even if you do, marrying a woman from a different part of the country means that it's unlikely you'll pick your parent's home town even if you do move back to the UK. She might have had an idea that you'd get married and settle near her and she'd have the sort of relationship with her DIL where she could pop round for a coffee, if you're in a different country, that's not happening.

It's not that your DP is a problem, it's that she's not a local girl. You aren't just having an adventure overseas, you're building a life there.

Her behaviour is unacceptable. Do not retaliate as she will use it against you. It is commendable that you are trying to understand her rather than telling her to ps off! When she starts with her abuse just say mmmm or yeah. Then move onto the next sentence.

Good luck with the wedding.

My random thoughts as I read this:

Maybe your Mum had long held expectations about what her first-born's wedding would be like and this is so different from what she had envisaged for you?

Weddings can be thought of as much as a family/community event as much as a anything so depending on the dynamics of your family, maybe your choice of a 'small intimate wedding abroad' could actually be considered rather selfish?

Are you really being honest with yourself about the dynamics and circumstances that led up to choosing to get married abroad? That you chose that option at all could be considered rather telling...

Maybe your mother is more upset about you getting married (losing her son?) than you could imagine? If she is menopausal this could be even more painful and devastating for her.

Maybe you haven't handled the communication of your choice to get married abroad very sensitively considering all of the above?

Maybe there's a female tension between your fiancee and your mum that you haven't sensed and now it's playing out through the wedding plans?

I have a feeling that your mother is being pretty dishonest about her feelings about this situation. Is emotional dishonesty or obfuscation the norm in your family generally...? Maybe this situation is not really surprising at all if you're honest with yourself also?

Regardless however, IMHO your mother's behaviour is childish and self destructive and therefore terribly sad. Any mother knows not to get between her son and his wife as the wife will - and should - always win. The MIL's lot is not always a happy one...

It sounds a horrible situation - weddings do often bring out hidden tensions in families. You don't even want to know about mine but suffice to say that 11 years on and I haven't watched my wedding video. Try to remember, however that the wedding day itself really isn't that important in the grand scheme - it's your marriage that matters. And believe me, that's LOADS harder than the wedding day ;)

I've just realised that you actually live abroad so all of the above X 10.

...and maybe you're living abroad in the first place for a reason that you're not being honest about ;)

Haha no I'm not living abroad because I've run away from something, I'm lucky in that my career is doing something I love, and I had the opportunity to move to Dubai to continue doing it for a lot more money, and thought why not? I'm young, ill do it now when I have no kids or commitment, move back to the UK in maybe 5 years and will be able to give my family a much better standard of living because of it.

I agree she is being dishonest about this situation, but no we are not a family that doesn't communicate or show feeling & emotions to one another.

Twinklestein, what did your sister do? How did your mum behave on the day? Does your sister forgive your mum?

She detached herself from my mum & had her wedding her own way, she decided my mum was too bonkers to reason with. She gave generic answers such as 'I'm sorry you feel that way', 'I hope you'll enjoy the day nonetheless'.

My mum didn't have a tantrum on the day but a friend of my sister's said 'she could at least have looked like she was enjoying it'.

When the grandchildren came my mum realised that if she didn't fix her relationship with my sis, she would have no relationship with her grandchildren. They get on fine now, but my sis does ring me for a rant now and again.