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Original poster

Buying a house and finances - clueless!

61 replies

newchronicles82 · 07/07/2014 20:37

Hi, long time lurker and occasional poster, could just really do with some outside views on this.

Basically me and dp are in the very fortunate position of being able to buy our own home in the near future. The thing is, it will be my money that is going down as a hefty (50%) deposit.

We have a DD together and are very happy / secure as a couple.

I'm just not sure what I should be doing re safeguarding 'my' money? It is money I earned before we got together and I have been working and saving hard to get enough together to buy this house. DP has also been working hard but somehow has nothing to contribute to the deposit. Ongoing, we will be splitting the mortgage and bills 50/50.

OP posts:
Appletini · 08/07/2014 00:30

"I have tried to bring it up with DP but he accuses me of not having faith in our relationship."

Massive red flag, sorry. I wouldn't buy with him.

Nomama · 08/07/2014 00:37

Why? Maybe that is how he feels.

As I said before it's a valid perspective. He is allowed to feel as though he isn't fully trusted. After all OP has said she has a niggle.... he/the relationship isn't fully trusted.

OP has to work out why. Automatically blaming him is not fair on either of them.

Bogeyface · 08/07/2014 00:37

If you do the deed of trust thing, he will propose by Xmas, guaranteed.

Dont say yes.

Bogeyface · 08/07/2014 00:39

After all OP has said she has a niggle.... he/the relationship isn't fully trusted.

Because he views money she bought into the relationship that she earned pre-him as "theirs" yet hasnt bothered to save any himself. I wouldnt trust that sort of attitude either.

Bogeyface · 08/07/2014 00:43

And FYI, H has a house that he co owns with his sister. There has been a family issue over this, he is expected to sign over his half of the house, with only a year left on the mortgage to the sister.

He has discussed this with me many times and asked for my help in finding a decent solicitor. I view this as his house, his money. We are married so in law it would be considered half mine should we divorce, but I think that morally it isnt. He says he will use the money to pay off the mortgage on our home, but thats up to him, I would never expect him to.

Nomama · 08/07/2014 00:45

We don't know what he has or has not brought. OP ends saying going forward all will be 50:50. She may have been saving and he has been paying more or has had a debt/responsibility OP was aware of and accepted but is now feeling hard done by, which is also a valid point of view.

I am not saying that is the case, just pointing out that the usual leap to condemnation of the male of the species isn't necessarily helpful.

Bogeyface · 08/07/2014 00:58

I would say this a man in the same position.

Take the gender out of it.

A has (say) 100k deposit for a 200k house
B has no deposit

They will split all outgoings 50/50 so overall A will have paid 75% of the cost of the house compared to B's 25%.

Should the house be considered owned 50/50 by both A and B in the event of a split/sale etc? Or should A protect their 100k on the basis that it was earned and saved before the relationship with B started?

I have a very uneasy feeling about anyone who contributes nothing but considers the significant amount of cash saved by their OH through hard work and good money management as "ours".

OP why has he not saved anything?

Nomama · 08/07/2014 01:07

I think either of those would be viable solutions. I also know that some relationships just are unequal, financially and other ways too. That isn't always because of some deviousness.

I also don't think that OP needs to focus on that at the moment. She needs to work out why she is having the niggle. Cold feet or based on something more concrete? Either are valid reasons for wanting to protect her money, but she needs to be honest with herself so she can decide how/if she wants to proceed. She also needs to be honest with DP, so he can make a fully informed decision.

VenusDeWillendorf · 08/07/2014 01:18

Get your name only on the deed.
Get a rental agreement from him as your tenant.
He contributes to pay his rent to you and you pay the mortgage.
He didn't put anything in, he shouldn't get anything out.
Bills are split as both use utilities.

Talk to a solicitor.

Original poster
newchronicles82 · 08/07/2014 06:00

Funnily enough (or not) he has been talking about marriage a lot and I suspect he will be proposing soon.

It's not that I have doubts about the relationship nomama, I just want to do things properly. I had no idea what properly is. I will speak to a solicitor to get a declaration drawn up.

DP hasn't saved because he found things to spend his money on. There have been no debts to pay off apart from a small one of his that he accrued before we got together. I guess he is a spender and I'm a saver. We both work the same and he does also do a lot of housework and a fair amount of DD care.

We have been together for 5 years and have a 1 yr DD so I need to do what is best for her if me and DP ever split up.

OP posts:
Original poster
newchronicles82 · 08/07/2014 06:02

Sorry that should read, we both work, DP does about 50% of housework (!!) and 20% of DD things. My previous post made it sound like he does everything.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 08/07/2014 06:42

I think it's unfair to lump 'money' together with 'how stable our relationship is' and for him (or others) to conclude that your desire to have your contribution safeguarded means that you don't trust him. Pragmatism is not cynicism. Relationships fail, even when they start with the best intentions. Different attitudes to money are a big source of disagreement so it's important to set the parameters at the outset rather than leave things to chance and create resentment. More couples these days are taking advantage of prenuptial agreements, for example, especially where one or both of them are bringing significant assets into a relationship or they have existing families and inheritances to protect.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP · 08/07/2014 07:06

I don't think his attitude is necessarily a red flag at all. It could be, but it isn't definitively. DH and I have always shared everything 50/50 even when one of us was earning a lot more more and supporting the other. I used to be the higher earner and now he is. I would have been upset if at any point he didn't want everything to be shared, regardless of the situation. I would see it as not having faith in our partnership and it would make me feel that perhaps we shouldn't be together. He would be upset if I suddenly did the same. It's not grabby, it's just our relationship. We wouldn't be together if we didn't agree on this.

BUT you know your relationship and if this doesn't right with you then you are entitled to feel that way. His attitude could be a red flag or it could be a sign of his positive attitude towards equality and partnership. It might be something you can negotiate or perhaps it's a sign that you have different ideas and should rethink your commitment to each other. Only you can know any of that.

43percentburnt · 08/07/2014 07:15

Morning. Deed of trust, yes it is both your deposit in the sense it is helping you both get the house you want. I work in this industry and I see too many women who lose a lot of money as men seem to protect/fight for assets. Too many Women seem to think they look mean protecting assets, or it's easier not to fight for them when the relationship ends.

He will benefit from the money as long as you are together. Draw up a deed of trust, and look at one which gives you a percentage of value of the house. Ensure you understand the pros and cons of protecting it as a figure and as a percentage. You don't know what life will throw at you.

You need to take advice on what to do if you marry.

brimfullofasha · 08/07/2014 08:24

We had a declaration of trust drawn up when my DP put the majority of the deposit down on our house. This was equity from the sale of a flat. As someone on the other side of this I wanted it to be very clear I wasn't laying any claim to his money. It made things feel more equal rather than less as we were acknowledging the different investments. Not very romantic but it makes sense.

Nomama · 08/07/2014 09:15

Oh I must have been tired. I wasn't suggesting that the stability or not of the relationship should be the deciding factor, just that you need to be sure in your own head why you feel as you do.

If it is just a desire to have your hard earned cash kept safe, just in case, then, as I said, that is a valid reason. But I was suggesting that the 'he is dodgy' posts would be unhelpful for you in making your decision.

If you want to ring fence the money you have every right to. But, and I know I am repeating myself, he will have an equal right to see this as a judgement on him, the relationship and you.

Only you know how that will pan out!

Joysmum · 08/07/2014 09:28

If you've provided 50% of the cost of the house and you'll both contribute towards the other half the house, it could get messy and he could say that if he's only entitled to get 25% of the house, any maintenance bills should be split 75/25 too. A good solicitor is going to be needed to deal with the emotional side of this issue, not just the legal.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 08/07/2014 09:36

"and he could say that if he's only entitled to get 25% of the house, any maintenance bills should be split 75/25 too. "

That would be a very petty and illogical response... Hmm

misscph1973 · 08/07/2014 09:42

What if OP was a husband asking this question about his wife? Responses would be very different, I think.

I think it's personal how you do these things. DH and I never had much money, never any savings, and we share all money (well, alll debt...). We are both self-employed and work through our joint ltd. company although our businesses are not related, but we save on accounting costs etc. this way. Some months I bring in more money, some month he brings in more. We always get the same wages. I have a pension, he doesn't, as he believes his business is his pension investment, I don't believe that mine is.

We do have disagreements about money, but over the years we have both become better at managing finances and financial expectations.

If it is important to you, then yes, you should split finances.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 08/07/2014 09:53

I don't think it would be different if the genders were reversed. It's very important, as someone said upthread, to start the new phase of the relationship with everyone knowing where they stand. There's 'mine' and 'yours' from prior to moving in together and there's 'ours' after that point. Makes perfect sense. The OP wants to protect a significant investment of cash they have worked hard to accumulate against the - admittedly unlikely - possibility that things go wrong in the future. It's only the same thought process as a pre-nup .

Bruins · 08/07/2014 09:56

If you both have lots of money, or both have little money, there isn't a problem.
If one of you has more money initially, you should protect it, your sex has no bearing on this.

You may never need the protection. Good.

Joysmum · 08/07/2014 09:57

That would be a very petty and illogical response

Yes and we all know how petty and illogical people can get in arguments so it's something to be prepared for.

It's petty and illogical disagree with asset protection in the first place but that's still the case here.

Nomama · 08/07/2014 10:02

As Cogito says, I don't think my response would be any different. There has to be a meeting of minds regarding finances.

Bruins · 08/07/2014 10:09

I am at present witnessing the Deed of Trust being implemented only eighteen months after it was signed. It was just a precaution.

It has been invaluable.

unlucky83 · 08/07/2014 10:15

I've been in this situation ...kind of - you need to talk to a solicitor - in fact we needed a different solicitor each. (Here in Scotland house buying is done through a solicitor anyway)
DP put the 25% deposit down on our first house ...(we were going to split it -15:10 but apparently it was easier to do it this way...)
The mortgage was in my name - he loaned me the deposit - he paid half too - but if things had gone badly for his business we could have (just) paid it all from my earnings...and it was mine if he went bankrupt.
A few years in I was 'fortunate' to inherit enough money to pay the mortgage off...his contribution to the mortgage and initial stake was classed as owing a % -which we negotiated. Solicitor thought 30 maybe 35% - I had a brain burp and made it 40%. (Solicitor did ask if I was sure and I said I was Blush).
To make up for it he paid the total amount for the new kitchen... otherwise we would have split the cost 60:40.
New House he owns 80% and I own 20%...but he will be spending more on the renovations ...lots of reasons for the 80:20 split - complicated - I'm on top of where we are -
DP trusts me...but then he knows me and he knows I have 'issues' - too honest/fair for my own good sometimes....
(If I pay less in a shop than I expected I will query it...he wouldn't. If I found I was undercharged I'd go back...my conscience wouldn't let me do anything else... actually a kind of weakness...if that makes sense...)

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