A charity to help survivors of rape and abuse but...

[CelticHeart]

I just wondered what you girls think...

I was recently part of a charity that supports women who have survived rape and abuse but felt I had to leave.
I have survived rape and abusive relationships and I wanted to help others.
Within the group was a woman who worked as a sex chat line worker.
I felt that was the opposite to what we stood for and was almost making a mockery of what we had gone through. That it wasn't okay for a man to rape us but okay for us to tease and sexually taunt men who are complete strangers. Just degrading for women, that they are sex objects to be sold, etc, etc.
The woman concerned got angry at anyone not liking her business.
I was in contact with the founder of the charity but she said that as long as what the woman was doing wasn't harming anyone, she had to be professional and not do anything but support her.
I couldn't help but think that what the woman was doing was harming people; including other women and families!
I appreciated her position but to me it was almost like having an owner of a brewery in an Alcoholics Anonymous group!
Rather than cause problems, I left so that the woman could stay as she said she would leave and didn't want to meet up with anyone because I didn't agree with her business. She said sex sells, pure and simple.
We all know the reality of the world we live in but the whole point of being in such a group is to receive support and I thought to not think of sex in that way but hopefully as part of a healthy and loving relationship in which to move forward with our lives.
What do you think?

I'm sorry but I think you might be in the wrong here... IMO at least, it's of course up to you to decide where to work/ volunteer but I agree with the founder that what she does in her own time is sort of irrelevant tbh.

I don't put rape/ abuse in the same category as an adult chat line where both parties are consenting adults. (FWIW I have ethical 'issues' with sex chat lines but see them as a separate issue from what that charity was trying to achieve if you see what I mean).

I think YABU. Two completely separate issues. How odd that you would stop giving support to such a good cause- it seems a bit arbitrary. If this woman had raped someone or been complicit in the rape of someone, I would be able to see your point. But irrespective of whether or not you think phone sex lines are ok (and FWIW it's absolutely fine that you are against them), neither of the parties involved should be assumed to have anything to do with rape or abuse. The men you are referring to being 'teased and sexually taunted' are consenting to this. Equally, far from selling their bodies, the women involved could be seen to be in reasonably safe employment compared with other times in a sex-related industry. Again: it's fine that your against these and FIND them degrading- actually so do I- but to draw any comparison with rape or abuse is very strange IMO. It's just a completely separate issue.

I'm not so sure they're seperate issues, at least not in everyone's mind. It could be argued that the chat lines are part of an industry that normalises and condones (in some cases) rape and abuse, therefore there is a direct linki between the two. In which case it is very contradictory to work in both businesses at the same time.

It's complicated and can see why you feel the way you do OP, but can also understand why others do not see the slightly tenuous link between the two areas.

Tricky. I suppose the first thing to say is that charities attract a lot of people doing it for their personal reasons. Those reasons may be incompatible with our own values. I've quit two big charities for such reasons, and so have several friends. Your problem isn't unusual.

A female worker with violence against women might have developed precisely the cynical attitude needed to make a go of sex chat. I can easily imagine a jaded understanding of certain male sectors, that would render her immune to emotional damage from the work, and wouldn't be too different from the way we (abused women) use dark humour when sharing our experiences.

My own view would be that perhaps the woman isn't fully recovered from her abuse. Perhaps this makes her unsuitable for the charity; perhaps it doesn't. I guess, as long as she isn't telling clients "what men like", there's no crossover. Some might consider she's staying in touch with the 'enemy' which could be an advantage - all this, of course, depends entirely on her individual character.

She's only part of the problem if you see the problem in its wider context of male objectification & commodification of women. If you take things at a totally granular level - each client is one woman needing help - it's only background noise. You're perfectly entitled to your viewpoint, and don't need to change it: that is, I don't feel you've been unfair or unreasonable. But I did feel you wanted to think it through further, hence my waffly reply!

" not think of sex in that way "

You mentioned AA as a kind of example. The point of a support group on the subject of sexual abuse and rape, I would suggest, is not to put members off sex in its entirety (like AA) or even restrict the definition of healthy sex to one that is within a loving/traditional relationship but to help restore their confidence in being able to determine when sex is and isn't appropriate for them as an individual. And that's going to be a broad church.

They are different issues although, I grant you, there are links between them and they are both what I'd consider to be feminist issues.

I think you were right to raise it as an issue for discussion it is good that this charity now has an official stance on this matter.

I also think the founder was right in her decision. When you run a charity it is very important to avoid 'mission drift' which is where you end up trying to cover and have an opinion on all issues and, as a consequence, end up doing nothing well. So long as the woman who is the sex line worker is offering value to the core mission and not directly contravening it in her private life, I don't believe there is anything the founder can do without broadening the scope of the charity to include an opinion on the adult/sex industry.

(hope that wasn't too rambling, I'm on the phone...)

I was thinking along the lines of what 'keepithidden' and 'garlicjulykit' are saying. Thank you for your responses. It is this whole sex industry and objectification of women that leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, hence the need to leave. Of course I realise that a sex chat line is not the same as rape and abuse but the issue of consent, to me, is irrelevant. It is the whole exploitation that is going on. She makes good money and when we did meet as a group, she told us about it. I just think what she does is degrading and lacking in compassion for the impact such work can have on other women and families. Nevertheless, I think she is a very angry person and does need support Perhaps it is best I left and she stayed to get that support.

Sorry, MonoNoAware, but I can't quite seem to rid my mind of the link between the sex industry and what we've all been through. I would have thought it far better to set an example of sex within a loving and healthy relationship, not being paid for it! Otherwise, women who have been raped might think: 'yeah, let's get some money out of the perverted bastards!' Well, you know what I mean ;-) If it was my charity, I would not allow a sex worker in it! That's just absurd. It isn't to do with having an opinion, surely it is to do with not demeaning and objectifying women. Surely there should be boundaries somewhere. Just because something is legal doesn't make it morally responsible.

What she does is questionable morally and the sexual aspect is significant but I suspect you're leaving because you find her 'angry' i.e argumentative, opinionated, disruptive etc.

Garlic made the point I was going to which is that it makes me question if she has recovered from her past abuse.

I don't make any judgement of her, but if she's experienced abuse is thoroughly over it, I can't imagine why she would want to do that job.

Of course there are many ex sex workers who want to work for a sex abuse charity precisely because of their own experiences, but such women I have encountered personally wouldn't go back for anything.

It's a difficult one OP because I see precisely where you're coming from - and yet I also feel that unless she actually shows signs of giving inappropriate advice I think the charity founder is right, there's nothing you can do.

OP - when you talk about her getting support from the charity, my understanding was that she is working for the charity, is that not right?

I'm confused - is this woman a volunteer with the charity or a client seeking support?

I think you are right Twinklestein, it is one of those difficult situations. We are all different at the end of the day but I suppose we have choices that we can make. I think mine was right to leave now.

It is the kind of charity where everyone supports each other, so she is neither really, just a member...more like a supportive friendship group. Though I was about to become a volunteer and changed my mind as a result.

In that case then I'm sorry I feel of course she should be allowed to be in it. Sex abuse charities are very important for supporting women who are in or have got out of the sex industry.

Sex work can be very addictive, particularly the money...

I can only say this: if I ran a charity that was to help vulnerable women recover from rape and abuse, I personally wouldn't allow someone who worked in the sex industry into that group, not because I wasn't sympathetic to her plight (incidentally, this woman isn't in dire straits, she is out to make a quick buck, not to support her children or her degree...) but because there has to be boundaries and that anyone who does something that degrades women simply wouldn't be allowed in, because they'd all suffered enough already! I'd prefer our discussions to be about sex in a loving relationship. I think you have to draw the line somewhere and I would refer her to another organisation to get help, to protect the women of my group. I am quite sure there are other charities that can support a woman in the sex industry.

Statistics say that many women in the sex industry have been sexually abused previously, leading to very messed up boundaries.
She may only find her sex lines work acceptable because of her previous abuse.
And therefore she really is someone who needs the support of the group.

I agree with you Cabrinha, but I think she needs a little more than what the group can offer her and you have to consider how fair it is on other members. I know that others are uncomfortable with what she does and it makes it hard for them to talk about the abuse they have suffered. Perhaps it is the responsibility of the founder to find out how all members feel.

Well I'm glad to say the rape charity I worked for briefly welcomed women who were or had been in the sex industry. It's a horribly abusive trade in which rape and sexual abuse are commonplace. The idea of turning women away on account of their work seems a ghastly 19C throwback. If you only want to discuss sex in loving relationships then a sex abuse charity is not the place to do it...

Sorry I think you are well out of order. It may not be obvious to you but presumably she is there because she is a vulnerable woman recovering from rape or abuse. There are rather a lot of them in the sex industry.

Also, what's all this 'sex in a loving relationship' stuff? I've had plenty of wonderful, enthusiastic, consensual and very very casual sex in my time and would probably have some more if I ever found myself single again. Would I be unwelcome in this group if I needed support?

I would assume the group has a set of 'ground rules' - what do they say? If the woman is sticking to these then you really have no right to complain. You might want to see if there's anything in there about being non-judgmental too.

i guess there are two ways to look at it. Either she is working in an abusive industry because she is struggling to deal with her experiences. In that case, she most definitely should be allowed to seek support from the group. Alternatively the two are not linked and she is someone who works in a job which is nothing to do with you and she has as much right as anyone else to seek support from the group. Either the job is connected to the abuse she has suffered or it isn't. Either way, the result is the same, right? She should be able to get the support she wants and needs. I still don't really understand why your personal opinion on this woman's job should have anything to do with who gets support. Also agree with the previous poster about your statement about 'sex in a loving relationship'. A support group is just that- support. It's not there to teach a subjective morality or tell people how to live their lives. If your members want that, they'd be better going to church. Support means listening and not judging.

And Twinklestein, what about the other women in the group who aren't in the sex trade? Just forget how they feel? And discussing sex within a loving relationship is just one part of the way of healing...
And PlentyofPubeGardens...well, respecting yourself has a lot to do with it! I am quite sure your partner is very happy that you didn't care about a bloke or two you slept with in the past. I am not surprised women get treated so badly when they also use men for sex, then start leaping about in horror when a man dares to use them. And you are judging me for having morals and principles...so I can judge you for being easy then, can't I? This is why society is the way it is, because so few people value true loving relationships.

I am not surprised women get treated so badly ...

The mere fact you can issue that statement shows you were in ENTIRELY the wrong charitable environment.

Now I'm judging you. Please stay away from anything to do with abuse of women.

It is a shame it is my 'personal opinion' isn't it? And not more of a universal one, for if it was, then perhaps women wouldn't be so degraded so much of the time, and objectified. I just feel very fortunate to have met a man who is compassionate and caring and would never demean and degrade a woman in that way. I still think what she does is a contradiction and that was said in earlier posts but as this conversation has somehow deteriorated into almost a bullying competition for someone who has morals and principles, best I leave the classroom and you all to it...feel free to judge me as being judgmental...lol.