who is the more bonkers here?

[bigsmall]

I am helping Dss 6 and 7 in bathroom before bed. It is late for them, they are tired. DH has piled 24 toilet rolls in a high wall on bathroom floor. Dss, tired and therefore manic, delight in knocking this wall over and throwing toilet rolls around in increasing state of mania, ignoring all my calm comments, attempts to reason, and warnings. I finally pick up DS2, take him out of bathroom and say (firmly, not shouting) he can wait and have his wash on his own. He howls and howls outside bathroom as if being attacked by swarm of bees. DH (prat) runs upstairs to say "tell me what's the matter ds." and then to me "They never do this with me. Just leave us alone and we'll be perfectly happy." I, furious at his reaction, walk into bedroom and slam door. Then I hear DH say to DSs "Ignore her. She's gone mad again." I come out to ask DH to back me up by taking DS1 downstairs to wait for his wash, rather than undermining me. DH says "You're undermining yourself. You've gone mad again, slamming doors. They don't need this. Just ignore her, boys."

I don't think I should have got cross, but the sly undermining is quite frequent, and I think it may genuinely have driven me mad to the point where I am rubbish at looking after them. DH is often telling me I should just move out and leave them alone (mainly as I don't keep his house - it is his house - tidy enough), and just now I think that might be a good idea.

Actually writing this has been most cathartic. But is it me that is bonkers?

DH of Op suggested she leaves. Clearly there is problem of some sort. Op now thinks she is bonkers. Dh is suggesting family should be split. She isn't bonkers, in needs some sort of 3rd party support undoubtedly. Would not want to be in this situation.

Oh Thank you all. I do need not to get angry and slam doors. I haven't done it often at all. Getting an early night instead of staying up writing this would help.

The toilet roll pile wasn't exactly bonkers, but it certainly wasn't imaginative play with the boys - DH just piled them all up while the boys and I were out, not as a game, but so he could throw out the plastic bag they came in, on one of his tidying sprees. He didn't realise how tempting it would be to 2 boys to knock the pile over.

I am hoping he may actually agree to seek treatment for the anger, or at least counselling with me. He has always refused both. But meanwhile I need to get legal advice and a contingency plan. How awful. Thanks very much everyone.

I'd be tempted to call him in whenever they start playing up.

However, I think you must be very clear with your OH that such comments will inevitably lead to the break up of the marriage. So, he has the choice to keep making them or respect you.

The same with his "anger issues".

Boundaries. Define what they are for you and stick to them.

It sounds as if there are anger issues on both sides, Lweji. I don't think it helps the OP to sugar coat that.

But the OPs seem to have started with him.
Although it is not good to slam doors and so on, I can see how frustrating it is to be undermined like that all the time and particularly to be called mad by the father of your children. Among all his other behaviour.

I wonder what his anger issues are.

Indeed, my suggestions are instead of getting angry. Not much point in it, but it requires some detachment.

Again, thanks all. The offending toilet rolls have been put back in their plastic bag, which I retrieved from the bin, and out of sight.

I am worried about getting angry, yes, Dancing Bear - that is why I wrote this post in the first place. There are differences between my anger issues and DH's: 1. I am worried about mine; 2. When I feel angry, I always know and can explain exactly what has made me angry, while DH tends to get angry for no apparent reason, and shouts about generalities like me being mad, me being a lazy slob, or if all else fails, me being some unprintable obscene word; 3. he gets angry with so many people, cutting of friends and family, threatening to take people to court all the time- friends, neighbours, colleagues, workmen, school headteacher; 4. his family say he has had anger issues all his adult life.

If he would recognise that problem, I would stay and commit to looking after him and helping him to get help. It could be so different. He could enjoy life and everyone could be on his side, and the boys could have a softer, reliably happy dad. But there are limits to what I can put up with aren't there?

You should read Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That. He starts one chapter with a scenario with a man belittling his wife in front of the kids before going to a family party. It's virtually the same dynamic and words as this scenario.

He sounds a twat and, I rarely say this, but LTB. BTW, OP my DD was so much happier once we got away from my bullying and controlling ex. Your kids most likely will be too.

bigsmall he sounds like a very abusive man and I'm sorry he set you up for failure- if a stack of toilet rolls to a toddler isn't exactly like a red rag to a bull I don't know what is. Too bad you slammed the door but I imagine you we're feeling such anger and despair at the time and as you say you can point to exactly what caused it.

I've often been in this position over many years, living with my H who has an amazing ability to see the negative in everything (particularly me, sometimes our DC) and I've felt terribly ashamed when I snapped and screamed at him. But looking back over the build-up to me snapping I can see how it happened -- and he gets real satisfaction over the fact that I snap so he can point to 'my' problems and ignore his part. It's only in the past two years since I started posting on MN that it made me look at his role, and now that I've really detached from the relationship I don't get the feelings of helpless despair like I used to, my reaction is more like 'meh' (as my kids would say).

Sorry to hear you've had to waste your time re-packaging the toilet rolls. And no doubt every time your H sees that bag it will remind him of your failure and inability to keep a tidy house. Not funny! My only advice would be to read 'Why Does He Do That' by Lundy Bancroft.

Queen - snap!

If someone slagged me off to my kids and told me to leave because everyone was happier without me (including my OWN children) I would be furious too.

It's very insidious this kind of thing, chipping away bit by bit until children have no respect for the parent it's being done too.

Of course posters aren't saying leave over this one isolated event but it's quite clear there is a pattern here and if someone was trying to isolate me and undermine me within my own family with my own children then yes I would certainly be ending the relationship.

He sounds awful and abusive and the things he is saying are madness making.

Agree you need to read Lundy Bancroft OP, I suspect you may recognise your own life in that book, much more than you realised.

What they said ^

I'm sure too that DS1 behaviour will calm right down when that man is no longer controlling your lives.

You're married. I dare say that you could actually get the house awarded to you until the boys are at least 18, and HE would have to go. Get some legal advise as to your position legally and financially, it will give you a lot of strength having that knowledge.

Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft is a very good shout. Please read it.

Argh, advice not advise (phone, sorry)

He sounds bloody vile! Any man who belittles their wife in front of their kids and tells them that they would all be better off if Mummy just fucked off needs to be kicked to the kerb.

HIS house eh? I think not, actually.

A man with anger issues making his wife frustrated and angry with his terrible behaviour is a perfectly natural reaction.

Yy to Lundy.
Also check out the freedom program online.
Calling you obscene names is abuse.

He sounds like a prize.

and who, who takes all the toilet rolls out of the bag? Wtf.