Why do emotional abusers and bullies do it?

[Brittapieandchips]

I know it should just be 'they are twats' but there must be something going through their heads. Do they know they are doing it?

I think XH was basically convinced he was a tragic hero, flawed but good, in a world that was pitted against him. He saw me as completely unreasonable, lazy and attention seeking so justified himself like that. I think.

School and work bullies just thought I was weird and they needed to tell me and show me that they wouldn't stand for it.

What about the men that physically abuse their wives? Or other combinations of gender/relationship?

Are there any qualified psychiatrists/ psychologists on the board? It would interesting to hear the professional point of view.

I don't think psychiatrists often get a decent run at abusers, because their clients will be people who are seeking help with their problems, whilst abusers don't believe they are the ones with the problems. Like diagnosing narcissism, the one person who should be analysed doesn't volunteer for it. It's their victims who end up in therapy!

Lundy Bancroft says beware of the abuser who does attend therapy, for they will learn all sorts of useful psychobabble to defend their actions and to carry on blaming everyone else.

For the rewards.

Lundy Bancroft explained it very well in his book. If a man picks a fight with you when you ask him to do his share of the housework, and you never bring it up again, then the 'reward' for having trained you to walk on eggshells around him is that you never challenge him, he never has to give, he enjoys a privileged position in the household only taking.

i think as well, a person with a low self-esteem temporarily inflates their EGO by making somebody else upset. They can never feel good with their low self-esteem but they can feel good for a while off the back of their ego.

I used to work for a ego-centric bully. I remember him once arriving in the office mid-morning, sensing it was all rather quiet and saying to me 'what this lot need is a bollocking... they haven't had one for a while and they're looking a bit dozy... watch this'. He then proceeded to stamp, shout and hurl papers off desks etc until things livened up. Totally conscious, cynical and done to keep everyone on the back foot and eager to please. The Alec Ferguson approach to management... and precisely the way some people approach relationships.

Why do they do it? Because they are flawed and dysfunctional human beings. Flawed in that they have little self-awareness or empathy and are hugely manipulative. That's the only understanding they need from the mentally-competent people around them. That, and the understanding of need to avoid them at all costs.

Cogito, there's a woman at my work who I thought at first glance I'd get on with. SHe was about the same age (although 3 years older, that's not significant to me but I think it is to her). She is ok out of work (like at a pub quiz or at a meal) but in work she constantly tells me how I could do my job a bit better. Then she looks at me and I don't know how to respond. Lately I've been saying in a robotic voice "i am keeping track of those figures, I am updating those figures" and then she said something else critical and I repeated it again like a parrot. I felt a bit silly but she did drop it. I feel that I would look aggressive if I told her to back the fuck off. She's not my boss by the way. she's just a colleague but she believes I am about to make a massive fuck up all the time. I'm not. By the way, my boss thinks I'm doing a good job! this woman is always 'baiting' me.

OMG if only my Father had some insight into being an emotionally bully, then that would have maybe altered the pattern of my life. When I eventually got up the courage to tell him what I thought of him, after a particularity nasty piece of verbal abuse, he expressed absolute astonishment. He had absolutely no idea of the effect he had on his poor children. His behaviour nearly killed me. He is dead now and I have not cried once. I am ashamed to say that I took the same road( but not entirely as I had some self knowledge) until I had counselling. I no longer shout at anyone and I recognise and respect others. For instance I think MN should respect All Posters on MN. However If the Post is obviously out of order, they should be utterly ignored not told to F off.

Because they are massively insecure. In my book, happy people don't make others feel like crap. Some of them cover it up really well, the self hate. But if you study them it's there. I work with someone like that and also two family members with bullying tendencies spring to mind. When you're full of self hatred (which all my ex

Bloody phone. When you're filled with self hatred (as all my examples are) you want rid of it so you project it onto someone else. It's like vomit. It's gotta come out somewhere. The bully tends to pick on someone who has a quality which the bully dislikes in himself. They normally pick on nice people I think because it makes them angry-their world is cynical and twisted and the nice persons naïveté angers them. Also if you are onto them they don't like it.

Ds's father is a bully. It doesn't matter what he does or what he says, you are always the one in the wrong. If you try to talk about it, he stonewalls you. If you disagree with him, he stonewalls you. Not for days or weeks, but months. He refused to contact ds for 6 months after ds corrected his grammar (ds had to apologise. I forgot who the adult was here). You're on eggshells all the time. He'd demand to see ds at the drop of a hat and it was irrelevant whether we'd already had plans. I'd try to explain that we'd booked to go away and he'd shout at me down the phone.

I can't say I felt bad when ds decided to have nothing to do with him, the ex didn't help himself when he shouted and swore in ds's face because, on yet another drop of the hat demand, ds left his friend in a game shop and was asking how long they would be as he wanted to get back to his friend. Of course, this wasn't his fault, and I get the blame for ds not wanting to see him.

The list is huge. He stonewalls me because I stand up to him, and he doesn't like it. He's married now and I've seen him bully his second child. His wife sat and did nothing. Says a lot.

Bullies can only be bullies if you let them, the only way to deal with them is to stay strong and stand up to them. I hope some learn the error of their ways, but I think the vast majority of them move on and look for someone who's an easy prey

Bullies are scared of being thought weak, or in the wrong. 'Healthy' people see disagreements as opportunities to be a better friend or employer or partner, to 'grow'.

A bully sees only a need to reassert their power, to punish and intimidate or manipulate people into agreeing with them.

I'm not sure. My ex seems to get worse and more verbally agressive when I assert myself, so maybe you've got a point, Imbroglio.

Bullies know exactly what they are doing, even at a young age.

They may not be aware or care about the impact it will have on their victim.

I was bullied throughout secondary school. My peers knew they were breaking me but it did not matter.

My ex's bullying started as put downs here and there - "you look dopey", "you should buy a newer car".He compared me to his friend's partners. He gas lighted me so many times and I actually started doubting myself. He 'banned' me to the spare room whenever I did/said something to upset him. He kicked me so many times and I thought I deserved it. He would watch me cry and smile. Bullying me gave him power - he did not have this in any other area of his life

Leaving him was the best thing I ever did! Four years too long!

Well done for leaving. You're a strong woman

I don't think most bullies are self-aware enough to know what they are doing. Or they are so arrogant they don't care.

I agree with Imbroglio, they can't be in the wrong.

I don't know if this is "why" they do it, but at an event organised by a domestic abuse organisation one of the workers said that abusive men are overly focused on how you behave and how they feel, and not at all focused on how they behave and you feel. I thought that was really true and I think of it often. And as some other posters have said, I think there is some powerful self-hatred being projected outward.

In the case of some abusive men it's because, very simply, they do not believe women are human beings. To them, a 'woman' is something roughly on the level of a domesticated animal. Someone else posted an outline of the theory ages ago, and it goes something like this: an abusive man may well say and believe that he loves his partner, even though he controls her and may physically attack her, but it's the same sort of love that a person might feel for a dog.

If you have a dog and you love it, you make sure that it is fed properly, that it has a comfortable place to sleep, that it gets enough exercise, and you take it to the vet if it's ill, or hurt: you meet all its physical needs and you probably give it treats as well (rubber bone, doggy chocs, whatever).

But you train it to obedience, and smack it if it barks too much or makes a mess. There are probably items of furniture it's not allowed to sit on or rooms it is banned from entering, and you don't consult it about things like moving house, or what time to go to sleep, or whatever.

You love it, but it's a dog.

Well put SGB

There's an enlightening view into the mindset of an abusive man on the feminism board right now. Called "men ate getting worse, here's why" or something like that.

They have a totally skewed view of the world with themselves at the centre. They see other people as actors in a play and can't understand when they react in a way they don't expect.

That's right BB

It's very "Man at centre of Universe, women as useful - or not - tools"

Is it really the right thing to do to react and to challenge. My experience is that it just escalates. They will not give in and see it as a challenge to be overcome. There is just such an obvious lack of self awareness.

They have a totally skewed view of the world with themselves at the centre. They see other people as actors in a play and can't understand when they react in a way they don't expect. I'm sure this is key to it, BB.

Along with poor or no empathy, and impaired conscience, this seems to be the mindset behind abuse.

I don't think normal, healthy people get up one day and decide to abuse their partner, for personal gain. There is a fundamental problem within. I think this is why they show such similar and predictable patterns of behaviour.

The need to control small aspects of their environment can be part of it too: hence coming unglued about empty tea caddies, or using the wrong tissue to blow your nose (something mentioned on here recently)

"My mother is the most abusive person I've ever met, yet she considers herself a victim and, when I used to see her, would cry and tell me just how alone she was, how she had no one, how no one cared about her... and she really believed it. Yet she was the most vicious, spiteful, self centred individual I've ever encountered."

Folk Girl, you are describing my ex, and half my family here. Frightening how similar these people are... :(

When I went into the abyss after my marriage with my abusive husband broke down, a counseller recommended this book: 'But He Says He Loves Me' by Dina MacMillan, which describes (and explains) what's going through the mind of an emotional abuser, and how they're able to get away with it.

It's really quite chilling, but eye-opening reading. Here's the link:
www.amazon.co.uk/But-Says-Loves-Manipulative-Relationship/dp/1741751969

folkgirl said something upthread about her x believing that her rejection of his attempt to improve her was abuse! I feel my x felt something like this. I resisted his criticism, I challenged his decisions, I asked for money/time/help, it really was abusive of me, not to just knuckle under and give give give. I think I was the dog that SGB described. And really, occasionally the life would go out of me and I would just put up and shut up, woof woof and then he'd say with a smile 'you're back to your old self!' or "we're getting on well again!".

My H does it to make himself look good because he obviously feels totally inadequate. He is a bully.
He does eye rolling, tutting, shaking his head and sighing to make me and DS1 look bad. He constantly sets us up for a fall.
In his mind, he thinks people will then look up to him.
This includes the staff at work, he wants them to think he is better at his job than me. They all think he's an idiot btw.