Family lives overseas. Special event. Am I expecting too much?

[LDFamily]

I've name changed but I'm a regular. I'm feeling a little hurt right now by a family situation and need some advice, and I need to type how I'm feeling so I don't say it to those involved :( It'll be long I'm sure!

Backstory

I live in a different country to my family and the time difference is around 15 hours. I'm one of 4 kids. It's just mum and us 4 plus our spouses now. My older sister has 2 children, she's the only one with them.

You'd think (or I did) that with the fabulousness of today's technology that keeping in contact with family would be easy. Well it is, but it doesn't mean it happens. I'm on facebook (and have a smart phone so almost contactable 24/7), I have an app that allows free texts and calls yet I NEVER hear from my older DSis unless she wants something (either for herself or one of her friends) and of course there's always Skype.

I don't see my niece on Skype unless my mum is baby sitting. As she lives in a different town this has been about 3 times in the last 2 years. My DSis is "too busy" to find 10-15 minutes to hop online for us to bond, and I guiltily feel myself caring less and less (self preservation and all that).

I've tried talking to my sister about it. I've talked to mum and the same happens to her (only contacted when DSis wants something). We can't make her change. I can only keep trying and I just don't know how long I should continue to try. Maybe when DN is older and is able to make the decision herself things will change, but when it's just up to DSis I just don't see it changing.

The first Christmas with my DN my sisters husband flipped out because they were "pandering to the person who CHOSE to move overseas" (his words). I left the timing completely up to them (just gave them the time differences) and I sat around for hours waiting for them to be ready. I just feel like it's important to spend special functions together and make that effort. It's only a couple of times a year.

My DSis has since had another child and I have yet to see him on Skype. He's several weeks old already. I only realised that as I was typing this... wow I feel bad that I didn't realise until now :(

Access to money, or computers, or internet is not a problem here. Both my DSis and her DH have good incomes, even with DSis on mat leave, and have several computers and an internet connection. Same goes for me.

Present Situation

It's my DN's birthday party today. I was told a couple of days ago, by DSis, that they'd hop online so I could see her opening the present I got for her. I didn't want to nag so only sent a msg around 9pm my time because I hadn't heard anything (noon their time). I received a response at 11.30pm my time telling me the party is over and that my DN was napping and would be until 4.30-5pm (1.30am my time).

I know that DSis was extremely slack about organising the party. She still hadn't got the decorations the day before and mum had to go a day early to baby sit so her and her DH could finish getting what they need.

I know all this but I'm still hurt that it wasn't a priority, or even a thought, to find 10-15 minutes for me to say hi in the morning their time. It just makes me want to stop trying. I know that will make me the "bad guy" though.

My DB suggested I just ask them to record it. The whole point (I think) is for me to interact with DN as well, which I can't do from a vid.

Please tell me. Am I being precious? Should I just suck it up? Should I say anything?

I was going to say what's just been said - on 'the day' of anything big happening it's always really busy so aiming for the day after might be a better idea, especially if you want to see your present being opened; suggest it as a positive thing that your dn will have another present to look forward to after the excitement of her birthday.

And only suggest skyping for a few minutes. If you get longer, that's great but as others have said sometimes when you have two young kids, it feels like you've been going non-stop and you get to bedtime and there are still loads of little things you meant to do but haven't so asking for a chunk of even 15 mins sounds like a lot of time to magic from nowhere.

And just watching present opening on Christmas day sounds fab - even if you were there you wouldn't have got much more than a hello when you arrived, you'd just be sitting watching so that sounds ideal, you get to see family life unfold with little need for everyone to just be sitting and making forced conversation. Just so long as they didn't have to delay present opening so you could watch! I'd expect you to be the one that dials in at stupid o'clock for you if they normally have presents after breakfast, it's not fair to make them wait until after lunch. One thing to wait for 5 mins to set the call up, but having to change their routine wouldn't be good.

My aunt lived abroad when I was little - she sent my sis and me a postcard every couple of weeks which I still have now. When we were tiny they were very simply written (she's a primary teacher!) getting more detailed as we grew up.

I'm sorry but your expectations are too high and you are too prescriptive about how the interaction should occur. I hate to break it to you, we have long distance family, and Skype really doesn't work as a medium for small children to get to know other people unless they already know them- so my children get a lot out of Skyping daddy who they already have a close bond with because it reactivates that bond, but almost nothing out of being made to Skype their grandparents, as there is little to say and they end up just waving or as they get older, not really wanting to appear or doing so out of duty. It's not the same, it just isn't.

As for getting your specific present seen by you and a specific interaction specified, words fail me! Have you ever run a kid's birthday party?! It's chaos and the requirement to open a specific present at a specific time with a 15 hour difference is just adding to the stress rather than providing a fun moment. It would be polite to Skype you at some point to say thanks, but little children are little and don't perform to order when their aunt they hardly know appears on screen.

Sorry to be harsh, but if you carry on like this you will continue to get rejected as what you are asking isn't for a very authentic interaction and just causing stress.

More meaningful interactions might include- calling your sister to see how she is- the birth, stress, new mum, she may need a hand/someone to offload to much more than your niece and nephew need to wave to you on Skype (it can often feel as a mum that you are not interesting any more in comparison to your children, do you think you might be sending that message); sending lovely gifts without the expectation of you viewing their opening; sending a postcard to the littlies with something about where you live/your life; saving up to go and visit so they can really get to know you and then the Skype/distance becomes about a real person they know and not just a figure on a screen.

It also may be that your sister is getting on with her life and has little time for you, or is just overwhelmed by being a new mum, or there is a genuine issue with you in particular, but this won't be visible if you keep setting everyone up to fail with these demands concerning viewing present opening etc. I wouldn't be happy to have this demanded of me tbh and if your sister's husband is already seeing it as intrusive, then some damage may already be done.

I have to chase my kids round the house with Skype on my mobile to get any of them on screen for family to say hello. Getting any coherent words out of them is a different matter!

I'm in the same situation as you OP. I chose to live abroad. As a result of that I am in far less contact with the DNs and various siblings than I would like. But it doesn't upset me. Some people don't like skype, others don't like the phone, others rarely use email...

Pick up the phone every few weeks and give them a call and se how they are. And take the pressure off everyone before it causes a row. Not skyping enough is not worth a row IMO.

I think you having moved away might be missing them much more than they're actually missing you.

I am somewhat in your sister's position, so perhaps I can help with suggesting some things that might help. My sister moved to the other side of the world when my DD was 1 year old, and yes, things are difficult. We went on to have DS, and DSis now has children of her own, and it is only now, when our DD is 9 and DS is 5, and her DDs are 4 and 2, that it is easier. DSis and I email between ourselves more than Skype, because the time difference there doesn't matter, but it does tend to be only about specific things - after all, general life is fairly boring! I find it hard to 'perform' with witty anecdotes when most of the time we're just doing the usual stuff.

We do try to Skype with the children, but it is truly only once the DC are old enough to really interact online that it works well. Before that it is very tricky. They don't sit well in front of the computer when they don't really understand what is going on. The one way that we did manage it was to Skype at the DC's meal time - we put the laptop on the table and they ate their meal while the adults chatted and cooed over them. It also has the advantage of being a time we could predict in advance, and when we were already sat at the table and by multitasking it feels like less of 'another task to fit in' when, as most new parents do, we felt rushed off our feet.

The most successful way of keeping in regular contact with DSis is Facebook. We both post the 'interesting' parts of our lives that would seem inconsequential if we had to save them up for a Skype session. For example, DSis knows that DD loves sushi because we Facebooked a trip to Yo! Sushi, rather because they had a specific conversation about it. But now, when we do Skype it is a starter for a conversation - DD enjoys going to Japanese club as an after school activity at her primary school, and DSis remembers to ask her how it is going.

The other thing that has helped is that DSis now has children, and I am just as invested in being in contact with my DNieces as DSis is in being in touch with my DC. It is a two-way street, which makes a little bit of difference.

I have to tell you, though, that I do sympathise with their feelings. Family is important to me, and I didn't choose to make being close with my family more difficult. I didn't choose a specific part of Canada to live in, or to feel that I should holiday in, in order to spend physical time with my family. So when we say that we can only afford to fly over there every three or four years, and DSis makes comments like "I know; we have to do it all the time", it really does take all my effort to bite my tongue not to tell her that I really don't care about that: she chose to live there; it should be part of her budgeting - why should it fall on my shoulders?

Now that she has DC of her own, DSis makes a lot of effort to make sure that her DDs know who all her relatives are; she has lots of photos of us all in their home, and they regularly talk about us. She also sends photos to us, so we can do the same for our children. We have a 'rogues gallery' with pictures of all the cousins and our godchildren, and our DC love to see them and often remind us to get new photos. I'm delighted to say that we went on holiday together at half term - she and her DH brought DNieces to Europe and we and our parents met them in Spain for a week (they later went to Holland and Germany to visit her DH's family there, so they had a three week trip in all), the DC all got on like a house on fire, and even the youngest was very happy to go off with us without DSis and her DH - even though we don't actually Skype that often, and see each other face-to-face every 12-18 months at most, the drip drip effect of talking about each other at home, and making the effort to get the DC to choose gifts for each other at birthdays and Christmases, and to write postcards when we go on holiday does all count.

So I would suggest that at this point, it is difficult, and you need to be creative about how you go about maintaining contact. Can you suggest calling them at their breakfast time over the weekend - they will almost certainly be available then. You don't say how old your elder DN is - can you think of lots to say to her? It will be a fairly one-sided conversation, especially if she's younger than three or four, I would think. Can you send them postcards, so they can create a scrapbook (why not send one over as part of a "congratulations; you're a big brother/sister" gift?), and maybe a wall map for their bedroom, so they can see where you live. You may have to be doing the running, but at this stage, realistically, your DSis probably feels that she has enough balls in the air managing her new family and there are only so many hours in the day. Reaching beyond that truly is hard sometimes, even if your family live in the same country. Maybe give her some slack, and swallow the fact that, for now, you're the one doing the running. Later you might be cool auntie, who they can visit as an unaccompanied flier!

That took me so long to write, and others have said similar things in the meantime. Sorry for being so wordy!

I would also say (just one more thing, I promise) that it was my DS's birthday party this morning. He's turning five, so I've not even got a newborn in the house, but there was no time for Skyping with anyone! We'll do something another day, but today there wasn't a spare minute, never mind twenty!

Thank you to everyone who replied.

I have to say it's interesting being one who asked for advice for once and seeing how far off some of the assumptions are. Not your fault of course, it just made me realise that there is so much more to this than I realised (and wrote). So I'll try and answer a few questions/statements:

ravensmum She is upset/hurt/sad about me moving overseas. The "judgmental" came from her insulting the country I moved to, insulting the house I live in, insulting the area I live in, the wages, the politics... mostly I feel judged, not missed. The organising the party stuff. Her oldest is in childcare all day, Monday - Friday 7am - 6pm (even though sis is on mat leave, she'll lose the spot if she isn't, high demand place and all that). The baby doesn't have any special needs issues, she is recovering well, can walk no problem and aside from being tired, she said she's doing great. She isn't breast-feeding so no issues there either. I do text every other week or so to ask after her and the baby. I get monosyllabic answers normally and occasionally longer details (same goes for when DM asks her).

I don't demand Skype time because she is the one with kids to worry about. I just tell her I'm available whenever. Otherwise I get "can't. Busy". There's only so many times I can ask before i just issue a blanket "let me know when you're available and I'll make it work".

BranchingOut Yep i know it's not easy to get DN in front of the screen which is why I have a "let me know if you want to/if you can" policy. I'm more than okay with working around their schedule because there's is less flexible than mine. No-one has landlines anymore so that's not a possibility. That's also why I don't nag. Just let me know if/when you're free.

Joysmum that's pretty much how I feel. If she really missed me, I'd at least get a text once in a blue moon without me first prompting it. I'm struggling to come to terms with it, even though it's been years and I really shouldn't expect more from her if she does the same to DM who lives in the same country!

Cabrinha That's the thing, she CLAIMS she wants to be. Makes noise about how I should come home but then insults where I live and shows no interest in my life. It's all very one-sided in that regard. I do chat to mum. Not to my other siblings though because that's just never been our relationship, compared to with this sister who I was close to before I moved. You're right that I do need to stop trying with my Sister and her children, that's the point of my post, the guilt behind making that decision.

Imbroglio Thank you. I definitely think coming to stay with us when older might be the thing to aim for.

onedev Flights are more than $2000 (when on sale) and i'm only permitted a week off per year, so going home regularly simply isn't an option. I'm sure she's upset now she's got kids that I'm not around, but we can only work with the hand we're dealt (my DH was not in a position to move to me, so I moved to him). Why would I spend the money on going home when she can't be bothered finding 5 minutes, even once a month, to talk to me? Why should I be guilted (which I am) about moving overseas when she can't find the time? It just doesn't add up. All that said, my DH and I are planning on going back at some point, but it's a LOT of money and it takes time to save that for both of us. Not to mention finding a pet-sitter for our menagerie and getting the time off work. I get that she's upset, mum's upset, my friends are upset, I'm upset, but my DH and I made our LDR work because we cared and worked at it. I talked to DM basically every week day. I talk to my friends online at least once a week.

Alice Thanks. The problem for me is the lack of interest in her doing that. If I said "record it" I'd get into trouble for not caring. I say let's hop online and then I'm sitting around for hours because they forgot. I think if I'd been told "we don't have time. I'll send you a vid" I'd've been fine. The problem was plans were made, and I just waited and waited, with absolutely no regard for me going to bed at a reasonable hour (I did end up waiting around till 2am my time but still nothing so messaged that I couldn't keep my eyes open and was going to sleep)

I think a few people misunderstand the Skype thing, and the party thing. In no way did I expect to be involved during the actual party. That's just way too hard. Her birthday was over a week ago so I also wasn't expecting that specific day or time, my sister said that's how it was going to work and I told her to let me know when she was ready. This was HER plan and I was just waiting to be told when (which is why I didn't nag and waited till 9pm). When it's Christmas I'm just the computer that's turned on and in the corner and presents are opened, it's just so I'm "there" and involved (much as I can be). When talking to DN, she loves to say hi and wave, clap and dance to songs and shows me toys (she showed me her favourite last time i was online with DM). When she's done I chat to DM as the others can't be bothered (either with skype or calls - which are free thank to an app we have).

I'll talk to DM once she's gone home and see what happened at that end.

Again - thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. I just need thicker skin I think and that I should message earlier "going to bed at X, if you can't hop online, please record it" and just going to bed when I need to. And then rely on mum to Skype when she babysits.

Wow that was long!

JennyWren you posted as I was typing my mammoth reply. Thank you for your reply.

I chose to move here, and I also didn't. I didn't chose to have my DH come from here. I didn't chose to have a DH who wasn't able to move.

It's true I didn't appreciate how expensive flights would be compared to my income here, nor did I expect such shitty time off. But I don't see why I should pay penance for that, and also be guilted for that. It sucks, so lets do what we have to.

My DH and I did the LDR for a couple of years. We know how to make it work, and we made it work because we care. That's why I struggle with them not making the time, because I know there's 5 minutes in a day. I know she's glued to her phone. I know that if you cared, you'd make it work. So to me, it means she doesn't care and I guess I just needed permission to stop caring as well.

I think you're pedaling the overdramatic just a bit. I hardly think that because she doesn't religiously ring you or include you that it means she doesn't care. I care about my mum, but can sometimes, depending on what is going on, be a bit sporadic in ringing her. Not because I don't care, but because sometimes I'm just to damned tired at the end of the day to be upbeat and chatty on the phone. Or because I just want to go to sleep.

Life gets in the way sometimes. Personally, I'd feel a bit odd sitting on skype watching their Christmas. Don't you have a life of your own? People you would rather spend Christmas with? If not, I'd suggest you invest more time in working on your own social circle.

I lived overseas for 12 years, including when my two DCs were born. I kept in touch initially by letter (email hadn't taken off then), then emails, and one return visit to the UK a year. I spoke to my parents on the phone once every week or two, but very rarely phoned anyone else (long distance, expensive, big time difference). Skype was only invented not long before we moved back to the UK, but I have to say I hate Skype, I feel really awkward on it, so even if it had been available I probably wouldn't have used it. Despite the lack of day-to-day contact with family, we all stayed on good terms and kept up with each others' news.

I have to say that I think you have unreasonable expectations of the level of contact with your sister and so on - you just have to accept that if you move to the other side of the world, it is not going to be the same as living in the same town.

Re Christmas - It's not "their" Christmas, it's the family Christmas (everyone coming together at mum and dad's house). It's also my Christmas Eve so Christmas Eve online for an hour or so with family, and Christmas Day with my family here. Christmas is for family, so no, social circle is not involved in any way. I don't find it odd at all.

I'm the one living overseas with DH and two dcs, the rest of my family are all in the UK. I think we've skyped maybe five times in six years, just with my mum, never with my sister. I hate Skype tbh, I find it intrusive and difficult to be natural, the boys get bored and wander off.

Christmas, well it's sbout our family these days. We have a quick call to the in laws and my parents to say happy Xmas and thanks for the presents, but spending an hour online watch

Oops... Watching each other would not happen, and I think both sides would consider it ott. They have their (nice child free grown up) Christmas and we have our (exhausting, noisy, child dominated) Christmas.

Op I suspect you and your sister are falling on either side of the huge gulf that often separates parents and non parents! My sister is the nicest, most understanding of people, and there are still plenty of times when her expectations of what I can / should be able to achieve are way out of line with the reality of my life with kids!

Wow, I'm wondering where you moved to if flights are so expensive and you only get 1 week holiday a year? Seriously, 1 week??

naturalbaby I was wondering the exact same thing.

OP, you seem very sweet and like you are genuinely trying. But you can't force your DSis to meet you half-way in your efforts. Would be lovely if it happened, but sometimes you can't flog a dead horse.

If she was emotionally distant when you lived nearby and is emotionally distant to those family who do live near her then don't take it personally.

LD, I feel that you're not quite taking on board what I'm saying.

I chose to move here, and I also didn't. I didn't chose to have my DH come from here. I didn't chose to have a DH who wasn't able to move.

It's true I didn't appreciate how expensive flights would be compared to my income here, nor did I expect such shitty time off. But I don't see why I should pay penance for that, and also be guilted for that. It sucks, so lets do what we have to.

Actually - you did choose. You decided to allow this relationship to develop, and to follow it to the logical conclusion. Great - and I am not judging you negatively for that. But whether you did your research beforehand on the reality or not, is not something that your DSis should be penalised for. If it sucks, you do what you have to do - don't put the onus on your DSis.

That's why I struggle with them not making the time, because I know there's 5 minutes in a day. I know she's glued to her phone. I know that if you cared, you'd make it work. So to me, it means she doesn't care and I guess I just needed permission to stop caring as well.

There are 5 minutes in a day, but perhaps they are just prioritised differently. The reality of having children is that, when they are young, they are relentless in their needs. And when you move away, our lives here continue to grow. How could it be otherwise? I agree with justwondering - I think this is a parent/non-parent divide, and I suspect that you'd have very similar responses even if you were a drive across the country rather than a flight away.

I think there are two separate issues here - one is practical (about how to stay in touch) and the other is emotional (a difference in how much you prioritise your relationships with one another).

I live overseas, as does my brother. I have a new baby (as does he) and I Skype my parents all the time. I like Skype/FaceTime - I put it on in the kitchen while I do the cooking or my parents set the iPad on the table so I can "have dinner" with them when I have lunch here. My brother almost never talks to them and is monosyllabic in his emails. He is "too busy". He is busy, but it is also simply not as important to him as it is to me to stay in touch with our parents. He wants to in theory but in practice he doesn't fit it into his life. He is also really not interested in staying in touch with me (although he gets upset if he doesn't know about big things in my life). I was very hurt by this before but now I am getting on with it and trying to reset my expectations.

Although it is hurtful, I think you just have to accept that at the moment, with a young family and pressures that you may not know about, she isn't prioritising her relationship with you. If you can deal with this and keep your communications lighter and more fun, she might stop seeing contact as a "chore". We all have iPhones in my family so we use iMessage, FaceTime and iCloud for photo sharing between us all. I can send my brother a text with a picture of some silly thing I've seen, rather than a long email. He sometimes texts back "haha" - nothing deep and meaningful but it keeps our relationship going. If I want a chat, I can FaceTime him (not that I do very often) and he can answer or not answer and we are all in the habit of uploading a few pictures a week to a shared photo stream. It is different from the close relationship we used to have but it is OK and it is a work in progress.

I think all you can do is try to get what you used to get from your relationship with your sister from your relationships with friends and family where you DO live and keep your relationship with family back home alive through occasional, less regular and less demanding contact. Focus your energy on your new life for now.

you chose to move away - its your issue i think