I'm upset but don't know why I'm posting

[Backdatednamechange]

I am so upset. Really sorry, this is stupidly long.

I'm on holiday with my husband, 1 year old, and my husbands parents, who I get along with just fine. We are holidaying at my parents villa, so only needed to pay for flights and car hire, which was shared, and food, which we haven't discussed yet but they will probably pay a bit more.

I'm also 28 weeks pregnant.

Since we arrived, I have been made to feel like shite by my husband. Starting from getting in the car, I couldn't get the new sat nav to work immediately, so I said we could follow my written directions. He and his dad had a go at me, inevitably went the wrong way, and the atmosphere was very tense.

Something similar happened the next day. They keep swearing and being unpleasant in the car even when I ask them not to in front of the baby, it also ,ales me feel knotted up inside.

Also, I am finding myself doing the lions share of the childcare, despite my husband insisting that this was meant to be a holiday for me too (sahm at home). I looked after him the whole time in the airport and plane, despite my big belly and DS's desperation to be walking.

Yesterday we both got up with the baby, and DH let me go back to bed 9-11, then I took baby in for a nap 11-1. Thereafter, PIL watched DS while DH and I made lunch, then we all had some time by the pool. Come naptime, we both put DS down, but then DH riled him up and took him out of his playpen until he was hysterical and impossible to settle. I then had to take him, and it took me an hour to calm him down, I was nearly in tears as he has never been so upset before. What is worse, while I was doing this, DH and PIL all fucked off upstairs laughing and drinking. I keep getting left alone with the baby.

PIL will happily take him - when he is happy. Then I get a screaming baby handed back to me who is insanely difficult to settle.

Then DH came down and said he was putting DS to bed. I stayed downstairs until 10pm, alone, very upset. They were all happy without me. I couldn't bring myself to go upstairs after DH had been so dismissive. DH then ipad messaged me saying "my parents want you to come and sit with us", so I replied, "I don't care what your parents want, I'm too tired and upset".

DH came down, apologised, I accepted and went with him to make dinner. PIL were watching football, FIL was playing on DH's ipad. I received a message on my ipad from DH's, saying "yes I know what u think of my parents" - DH was in kitchen FIL was on his ipad....

So I told DH, who got really angry at the invasion of privacy, and sent me to the bedroom so he could speak to his mum. About an hour later he came to get me, he was hammered, reeked of fags ( I don't smoke, and the smell makes me ill, he has promised before that he won't smoke), and refused to tell me then what had happened, said to put a happy face on and he would tell me later.

After dinner, we went to bed, I went to shower, and DH got mad at me because I wouldn't have sex with him - just went to sleep ( stinking of fags when I had asked him to shower) without saying anything.

This morning, I got up with baby and took him to a separate living room off the pool so he could play safely and I wouldn't wake anyone up. I went back with him at naptime, but DH was still asleep. He woke up, ignored me, left me to put the baby down and buggered off to the pool with his family.

After an hour, DS still hadn't napped so I brought him out for lunch - really upset at the feeling of exclusion both from last night and today. DH came upstairs and started asking me why I wasn't downstairs. I told him how upset I was, (don't think he remembers much of last night) and he said sorry, which I said I'm not accepting as it won't get me anywhere, I shouldn't have accepted yesterday's apology. I feel like a glorified babysitter / hooker and not good for anything else. Anyway he got really angry when I wouldn't accept his apology, called me a cunt, told me I was ruining his parents holiday, brought my mum into it (we aren't getting on), and told me DS wouldn't want to spend the holiday with me either. He said a few other choice unpleasant things, but no need to go into all of them.

I was crying after all this doing the washing up, and PIL came upstairs behind me (didn't hear them) wanting to know what was wrong, I went to my bedroom and they knocked on the door demanding to talk to us.

But I don't want to discuss it with them, because I'm an adult, it's not their business, all they would say is "you both need to calm down/not argue" and they would refuse to acknowledge anything DH might have done wrong.

But I feel like shit because of the general atmosphere (very pissed), shit because I keep getting left alone with DS, shit because I'm pregnant and exhausted, shit about what FIL messaged as I assume he thinks I don't like them? (I didn't need to facilitate this holiday), and shit because of how DH is treating me. He has also refused to tell me the outcome of his talk with his mum regarding FILs message to me, which has made me feel very excluded.

I don't even know why I've posted except I feel very sad and alone, DH is at the shops and PIL are in the living room (outside my bedroom) playing with DS.

Afternoon back, he is abusive and cruel. His respect comment was said to demonstrate why he gets to speak to you like shit and why you should put up with it. His comment about you dc not wanting to be on hols with you is cruel and wrong.

Your dc does want you to be there.

keep notes on here as to what he says to you, then you can review in the future when he says 'you over react'.

Im sorry you are not enjoying your holiday. i really hope things improve for you. Take care op.

Thank you all for posting

I had a sleep and then DH came in again, we have just finished yet another argument. I told him I didn't want to come out tonight as didn't want to face his parents, thinking he should accept this. Anyway as usual he got pissed off and the apology changed into more insults.

We have a very tempestuous relationship with a lot of arguments and name calling (I'm ashamed to say on both sides) but I try my hardest to keep this away from DS and I do not start the arguments. I suppose I am to blame for continuing them when I don't accept DH's apologies.

Tonight he told me his parents are fine and won't be funny with me if I come out, but didn't care when I explained that it is my feelings of exclusion and awkwardness which matter. I still feel rotten about the whole ipad breach of privacy thing, yet they have all swept it under the rug.

Quite - I am excluding myself now yes, but that is because I don't want to put a brave/happy face on it and pretend all is ok for other peoples sake. Also regarding the messaging, I don't think I said anything wrong. Unfortunately what PIL (or anyone other than my kids) want is not of primary importance to me when DH is treating me like crap. Plus FIL was completely in the wrong for reading it.

When DH and I were discussing things earlier, he kept bringing up my mum, despite me begging him not to, and using her as an example saying he is terrified ill end up alone because I'm alienating myself and arguing with everyone. I don't know whether to believe him or not. But I feel right now that I would rather be alone forever then suffer this any more. He also said, when I told him his reaction to me declining sex was abusive, that I had been sexually abused in the past. I don't get the relevance? It's like he wants to deny and minimise everything I'm saying.

He also said his drinking is ok as we are on holiday (after promising to tone it down), and that I didn't know any men who could give up booze (other than him, I don't need anyone to). He doesn't understand that I'm not married to other people and therefore what they do doesn't impact on me.

The more I'm typing the sicker I feel at how awful this situation is. I know I'm not blameless but I know all I have done wrong here is not forgive on DH's timeframe.

My son is only 15 months and the thought of him growing up like his dad makes me so sad. DH has many great points, but they are all being wiped out by his few enormous bad points.

Also I forgot to put in my earlier post, DH had a go at me when I mentioned the smoking. I gave up as soon as I got pregnant Aug 2011, he has been trying ever since and is largely successful but goes behind my back sometimes and does it. Problem with that is, being pregnant I have a nose like a bloodhound, and the smell makes me vomit so I can always tell. I also have a massive issue with third hand smoke and our baby (DS likes playing with DH's hair, which reeks after a fag). Anyway because I used to smoke loads, DH thinks I'm being unfair to his parents and him as I've changed so much.

I don't think it's fair to judge me on the person I was while at uni, before I had children.

Anyway it's a non smoking villa fgs! All I'm doing is moving downwind of fags and covering up the ashtray when not in use, it's not like I'm leaving the area in disgust. And last night when DH smoked, I didn't have a go at him, just asked him to shower. Which he didn't.

This sounds horrific OP. I'm so sorry you're having a hellish time. I definitely don't think you should try going on holiday with PILS again.

I certainly think you can turn this holiday dynamic on its head if you choose to.

Your FIL was way out of line - as you know - and I think it might be an idea for you to speak to him about it, as others have suggested. At the moment, your withdrawal is being misinterpreted. It sounds like they may think you (a) don't like them (b) are acting this way because you basically don't want them there (c) are immature (d) have an attitude problem. All of which is reinforced if you stay out of the way. I completely understand why you're doing it since I'd want to do the same. But now you've been out of the picture for so long, I think you do need to come back into the action with a quick, mature chat to clear the air. 'I don't have a problem with you, PILS' + 'Problems in the marriage are between DP and myself' + 'I was disappointed and taken aback by your message, FIL.'

Between you and DP, there are a couple of points. I don't get the impression your DP has actually grasped what you're going through. He may see your withdrawal as an attempt to make a point and be a controlling party pooper. So you need to be firm and not sound like you're whining. 'Abusive' sounds like a red herring from DP. Just don't react - 'that's your opinion but I disagree. Sorry.' Then bring it back to your points. Make it clear what you need from him. 'There's no problem with forgiveness, I just feel like we're in a cycle and I need to know you care about me and respect me.'

Don't let him send you to your room/exclude you from his conversations with PIL. What rubbish. You're in charge of where you are at any time. As for the comment: 'who respects you?'...what a horrible, manipulative thing to say. Does he wish for you to have low self-esteem? He may or may not be right about things you could be doing differently in life, but this is a truly appalling way to talk about it. I would be letting him know that I didn't plan to raise my son in a home where he saw his mum called such dreadful names and made to feel unworthy of respect.

If you were to go home, it would make a clear point that you won't be treated like this. Might be a good thing, rather than this situation with your DP thinking he can say anything and clean the slate each evening. Don't leave your baby behind though. If you do go, I would explain exactly why you're doing so to all three of them as PIL probably can't imagine what you're going through.

I also think you should get some counselling in place when you get home

I'm so sorry OP. As someone else said, you do deserve respect.

Why on earth are you with him? Don't say he's a brilliant dad or he's sometimes lovely. That's obviously not true.

He is abusing you and putting you down. Telling you that no one respects you is horrible and clearly an attempt at destroying your self-worth.

Do you have some self-worth left? Please say yes. Please say that you think enough of yourself to leave him. Not just the holiday, him. Forever.

Christ, you deserve so much better.

I don't think I have any self worth.
I can't afford a taxi to the airport, and I can't put the last nail in the coffin of our marriage like that. Not out here anyway.

He is a good dad, and he has many lovely sides. But doesn't everyone. They aren't good enough any more because he saves them for other people, not me.

He came in last night oissed and started telling me that I was too scared to go to counselling as that they would tell me I was schizophrenic and wrong.

He has told me this morning that I misinterpreted most of what he said last night. He also said that the things he has said aren't abuse, as real abuse is XYZ.

He has just told me that if I keep this up, his parents will probably fly home because it's pointless them being here. For the first 3 days they all happily excluded me and my presence wasn't required, why all of a sudden is it now? I'm sick of the emotional blackmail.

I so desperately want him to put this right, but every time he interacts with me he makes it worse. I know too he hasn't told his parents the truth, so they will have a bloody appalling opinion of me now.

Good grief, this gets worse the more you post. Do you know what projection is, Backdate? When he says he's terrified you'll end up alone ... this doesn't make any sense, until you realise he's terrified he'll end up alone (he won't be, he's got his parents, heh.) Likewise, he's scared to counselling as they'll tell him he's wrong.

This is a sick relationship, I'm afraid :( So upsetting that it's all reached a point on holiday - but, as I'm sure you know, this is often the case. It's up to you whether to play at fixing things until Friday, or just announce that you're going to do your own thing until home time. What isn't okay is your continually trying to make your husband into a reasonable human being: he isn't; there's a control game going on here and reasonable people stop that the minute it's started.

He isn't going to put things right bacause he knows he is in the right and you are wrong.

Please keep making notes, it will ensure he cannot minimise what he has said.

The comments about mental health issues are scarily common. He will no doubt tell you that he will take the children if you split up. Its all the same lines used by men like your dh.

You deserve to be treated with respect. Yes you have changed, people do in their 20's. I assume you are in your 20's. As for giving up drinking my dh hasn't drank since I was 30 weeks pregnant as he wanted to be ready and now we co sleep. So men do give up alcohol easily without being asked. Yes we drank when we got together etc etc, but life changes.

Sorry for typos on phone!

He's playing out the script that abusive men do and say to their chosen victims (I use the plural deliberately because your child is picking up on all the vibes and knows that something is wrong). His comments about your mental health are typical od such abusive behaviours as well. He now has you where he wants you; at a very low point where you now feel you have no self worth at all. That was his intention all along, from the time you and he started dating.

Abusers can and do appear plausible to those in the outside world.
He is patently NOT a good dad; women in abusive situations like you describe write that simply because they can say nothing at all positive about their man. Again, you have written nothing positive about him because there really is nothing positive about him.

Now he's gaslighting you by blaming you for misinterpreting what he said. That's another example of emotional abuse he is lobbing in your direction. Of course he won't tell his parents the truth; also they will back him against you anyway (look at his dad's behaviour as well, the apple did not fall far from the tree).

You cannot put this right because there is really nothing to put right here. He is abusive and such men act and do the same behaviours that he is doing. He will stop at nothing to destroy you utterly.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships here, surely not this?.

All you can do is remove yourself from this situation asap and start divorce proceedings. Womens Aid can and will help you leave.

How badly are you and your DM not getting on, I bet your parents would be horrified to think of you crying your eyes out. If I were you I'd ask them to pick you up from the airport when you return to the UK. Put some distance between you and Dh for a while.

If PILs go before then, so much the better - DH won't have an audience. It is open season when it comes to you apparently so don't be embarrassed if they leave early.

What does matter how you behaved before having DCs, that's sort of the point of growing up, looking after yourself, raising DCs in a healthy manner.

If you already had problems prior to the holiday, this proves that even in nice surroundings far from home, you can't hide from the uncomfortable truth: you are mismatched with your H, your DS doesn't deserve to grow up in a hateful environment, seeing his mum being undermined and becoming downtrodden, and another baby is on the way so if anything the pressures will increase.

If you want to go home, could you ask your parents to transfer some money into your account to pay for a taxi? Or do they have any friends nearby that you could visit to get you out of the house for the day?

Your 'd'p is being vile.

You can have a relationship and/or conversations with his parents without him being in the middle trying to manipulate everything. If you want to, then talk to your PILs and acknowledge the holiday hasn't gone how you thought it would. Really they should be apologising to you for being so ungracious when you've let them stay in your dp's house, and for pretending to ignore the fact their son is an abusive arse.

Jesus, this bloke is an arse of the highest order.

I agree that you should speak, maybe to MIL as you say she is nice, about the breach of privacy - she probably doesnt have a clue that your H hasnt told you about the discussion, and with you out of the way you have NO idea what crap he is feeding them about you to save his own face. TBH I would try to organise an afternoon away from the men, maybe out with your baby together, and have a real heart to heart about it all.

But that will only deal with the immediate probale, Your H is abusive, no questions at all. He is NOT a good dad, because a good dad would never treat the mother of his children like that.

just as an aside, is the reason you are not getting on with your mum anything to do with your husband?
Can you text her? Or a friend/sister? you need someone who has your back

I'm so sorry that you are being treated like this, Backdated. You must feel so trapped, both in the relationship and the holiday. It sounds like you are not ready to take a final, decisive action to end your relationship, but I do think you need to think seriously about whether staying with this abusive man is good for you or your children. And I think you know you need to get out of this toxic situation.

'I so desperately want him to put this right, but every time he interacts with me he makes it worse.'

This is because right now he has to work at putting you back exactly where he wants you. Putting up with his behaviour, self doubting, no self respect, too scared to leave. He is escalating his meanness because you won't do as you are told...

This is not an equal, loving, mutually respectful relationship. YOU are the one that can choose to put up with this or leave. Don't go looking for him to change, because he won't.

My parents are in Asia, not easy to contact, and a bank trf would take 3 days. Plus I don't want them to know we are having problems, it would make it harder to come back from. My mums issues are separate to DH, but the timing sucks. If it turns out I have to go, I will find a way. Airport transfers etc are cheap.

I'm going to try and describe the other side to DH, to try and balance it out slightly so you can all help me, because it is helping massively having somewhere to turn.

He really is a great dad. Hands on, does more than 50/50 in the house, very loving and playful. And DS adores him, his face when his dad walks through the door warms my heart.

Negated of course by the behaviour towards me he demonstrates in front of DS.

We are/were best friends. When things are good, we laugh together, talk, and are genuinely happy. But it all goes wrong so quickly.

Before DC, we argued a lot but made up a lot. Both behaved badly, name calling, swearing, and (I'm so ashamed) breaking things. Never violent to each other. Anyway the breaking things has stopped in both sides, we have grown up a lot. (Met at 19, now 28)

But where I have made a massive effort to curb the swearing, name calling, stopped smoking etc - he has not. I feel quite guilty about this because I am not the girl he met. He did however choose to have children with me and marry me knowing I had changed.

I am so imperfect it's unreal. I do get angry quickly, I am hormonal and very poorly/uncomfortable which doesn't help, and I'm trying to catch a grip of myself.

But I cannot justify the repeated things DH does which make me angry to begin with, and that is where we are at an impasse. He believes I should forgive and forget and move on - and normally in a healthy relationship I would agree, but how many times can one do that for the same recurring issues?

And for me, the initial 'offences' are far less significant then how he deals with them and reacts to me - which I feel is disproportionate to what I say in the first place.

Whether the cause is him or me, I feel unloved, emotionally abused/blackmailed and trapped. My perspective is that if he loves me, even if he believes himself innocent, he would do all in his power to prevent me feeling that way. As he doesn't, he must not love me.

I do want him to put this right, because I want my family to work. I want my best friend back, I want my children to have parents who are together and happy, and I want to not be angry/hurting all the time.

I've tried to explain to him that when there are several incidents a day, no matter how small, they build up into something big. So that he thinks I'm mad at XYZ, which I am, but I'm also still mad at ABC from yesterday! And my perspective is so skewed that I don't know if I'm out of order or not not being able to let that stuff go.

He is 100% worse around his family and I don't know why. We live 4 hours away so see them maybe 4/5 long weekends a year, and he does change noticeably. I am pushed to the bottom of his priority list instead of all of us interacting as a family, and it's never been so clear to me before as on this holiday.

Maybe I do need to speak to PIL, but I'm scared, I know they still see me as that immature 19 year old and can't accept that DH has a bad side.

He has taken them out for the afternoon so I can have some happy time with DS and also get some thinking time.

I know I want this to work. I also know I don't want to capitulate this time.

he really isn't a great dad if he makes his children's mum feel like shit. there's no way round that. also, if he's drunk enough in the evening that he can't remember everything the morning after, he is not a good dad. ever. under any circumstances.

he's worse around his family because he has their support. when he's with you and they aren't there, he has to turn to you for support so he has to try harder, even though in his case its hardly noticeable.

abusive husbands make you feel your 'offences' started the problems to which they only respond. read through your posts and try to spot it - do you think you have an abusive husband? I think you have.

Sorry I meant his initial offences. Like I asked him pretty nicely the other day not to dump the Hoover in the cupboard all tangled and on too of other stuff, made it clear I was annoyed at having to ask (not the first time!) and his reaction was disproportionate.

It is a rare occasion he will come to me and say that I've done XYZ to annoy him, he only ever gets cross with me when I'm cross with him iykwim? A defence mechanism.

I think he is abusive yes.

I'm worried though that I am too.

Just reading through this and all I am hearing/reading is his opinions, OP. He says this or that, he thinks you're being unreasonable, he tells you you're being abusive. Him, him, him.

It sounds to me as though you've grown up and he hasn't.
As for speaking to his dad/parents? If they all behave 'badly' (for want of a better word) then it may not be worth it. It doesn't sound as though you're likely to be able to have a reasonable conversation with him whilst you're on holiday.

You need to remind him that it's your holiday too. Where is your chance to relax?

You can either have this out now and settle things, or you can stew and be feeling worse when you get back from holiday. It does sound to me as though he is lacking in maturity, and, quite frankly, is horrible to you. You should think about what you and your children deserve for the future. Not abuse, belittling and inconsiderate attitudes, for sure.

It doesn't matter if you're abusive, though I doubt you are! That's something you can deal with (through counselling, self-examination, anger management, whatever) when you have enough peace in your life to do so. What matters is that he clearly IS abusive, and that isn't anything that is "caused" by you being imperfect. And it's something that's designed to erode your self-esteem and make it difficult for you to stand up for yourself or get away. But you shouldn't have to live like that, and however much your son may love seeing his dad enter the room now, as he gets older he will observe what your husband is doing to you and it will blight his life.

Is it possible for you to contact Women's Aid? Maybe it would help to talk to them about it?

It took a holiday like this to convince me that leaving my ex was the best thing I could do OP. He was very similar to your h by the sounds of it.

My ex was also (so I thought at the time) a 'good dad', lovely when he wasn't being abusive etc. But I couldn't stand being insulted, verbally abused and permanently on edge any more. I thought I loved him and desperately wanted to make my marriage work. Once I realised that he would never change it all got a lot easier.

I have never, ever regretted leaving him. Not once. When I left the only thing I felt was massive relief!

Go home, see a solicitor and make plans to leave him. You don't deserve this and your life will improve immeasurably when you get out, I promise.

He has just asked me over and over again, does anyone in your life respect you, who respects you - I couldn't give a name so he just said "well exactly". I feel like shit. So so sad.

Can you see that this on its own is enough to leave him for? He is telling you that he doesn't respect you and that he knows you have lost your own self-respect. I was thinking what my response would have been and it would probably have been a Death Glare and I DO.

You need to get back to I DO.

Asking someone to tidy the vacuum cord is not abuse!

I understand what you mean, though - I was abusive in my second marriage, and even signed an agreement that I emotionally abused him. It was the only way to get a divorce, he wouldn't sign my petition.

Two things were going on:
[1] I countered his attacks, and even tried to pre-empt them. Some women would not have done this; they'd have remained reasonable throughout. I didn't because I grew up in a violent family, and fighting back was the only way I knew.
[2] Knowing I would fight, he set me off when he fancied an eruption. Having observed me very closely, he knew what would make me feel most defensive. All he had to do was gently press one of my triggers and I'd be off. He'd carry on pushing my buttons - and I carried on reacting.

Here's a quote from Heartless Bitches about this.

..........

In expressing his own internal anger, he targets his partner. But because she has done nothing to "deserve" his anger at this point (or any point!), he may be rude, brutally inconsiderate, condescending, patronizing, or even use the "silent treatment" to get her upset or angry. When his partner gets upset, and an argument ensues, he can then express his anger at her, and blame the fact that she "got angry" at him, for the whole argument - even though HE started it. Don't let him convince you that your anger at his disrespect and emotional cruelty, is somehow wrong or abusive to him. That is part of his control and escalating cycle of abuse technique.

As part of this "control" technique, the abuser may "set up" his partner, pushing as many buttons as possible to get the partner to lose control by breaking down in tears or getting angry or yelling. If you raise your voice, he will insist that YOU are the abuser. Don't buy it, and don't believe it. While there might be better ways to handle the situation, (more easily enacted if you weren't emotionally involved with this person), chances are that he has inflicted so much psychological warfare that you have been backed into an emotional corner, and are reacting in self-defense. Emotional reactions in self-defense to an abusive situation do NOT make YOU an "abuser".

..........

I started therapy as soon as we decided to divorce. The very first thing I did was address my 'rage'. This involved learning not to react to triggers straight away. It took one week. Ever since, I've only raged on purpose, if needed. I clearly didn't have a temper problem and wasn't an abuser: what I had was a trigger response problem, which was easily fixed.

Several years more therapy were required to understand what actually happened in my relationships. This is why I'm posting here: to save you having to do so much repair work!

I swear they make these abusive men in a factory and just ship them out.

Break the cycle op and start making plans to ltb while you at least have the ability to question his crap.