Not sure how to deal with this behaviour from DH

[SadDIL]

I'm a long time lurker, rarely post and when I do it's under a different user name - this name is from ages ago, but I need anonymity!

A quick bit of background - I've been with DH for 12 years, married for 10, 3 dcs. DH rarely speaks about his childhood, but he has hinted that he was bullied at secondary school, which I do think has a bearing on his behaviour and makes me cautious as to how to react.

Anyway, DH and one of the dcs have a hobby which takes a lot of time. They did it on Wednesday after school and didn't return until nearly 9 pm, after which dc still had to eat before bed and he was like a zombie the following morning. I complained that it was too late on a school night and DH said that ds wanted to stay etc. I asked ds what had happened and he said DH had been coaching a new member of their club, which had taken some of the time (DH didn't mention this). They are there tonight and will want to be there Sat and Sun. DH has turned it round to me and told ds they can't go because 'Mum doesn't like us to go too much' (which is true, to be fair, but makes me feel like the bad guy).

Last night I mentioned that I didn't want them to spend all weekend away from home again, as I never get a 5 hour hobby break, let alone 4 times a week! DH said they wouldn't go at all then, if I was upset about it and I said that wasn't the point, they could go, but not be out from late morning until bedtime. He replied that it was easier to just not go as he lost track of time etc. Anyway I again said that it wasn't the going, it was the spending all day there and that while I realised that if I was nagging I didn't exactly make home a place he wanted to be, it was unfair for the childcare of the youngest two to always fall to me all weekend (I have to say at this point that I have HUGE admiration for single parents!)

Anyway, I can picture DH now, he was looking at the floor and sort of wringing his hands. He had the stance of a child, in fact I thought he looked a bit pathetic. I said we needed to talk because this blanking of me when we disagree about something usually with 'What do you want me to say?' doesn't resolve anything. He's very black and white in things but often gets the wrong end of the stick eg 'I don't want you to spend all weekend away' gets turned in to 'you don't like me to have to a hobby so I won't do it at all' (and will sulk at home instead).

Not sure the best way to go forward with this - I have to say the man I saw last night was not the man I thought I married.

I'm about to go out with the remaining dcs, so won't be on for a while, but will check back later.

Good luck. Mine threw a similar sulk at me 2 weeks ago. He has a Sunday morning hobby that seems to have gained a sainthood.

I asked if it would be OK if he didn't go every single Sunday, maybe we could do something as a couple once in a blue moon, and he threw his toy out of the pram - why would I want to stop him doing the one thing he enjoys etc?

I countered with - why would you turn a request for a single Sunday off into an argument about you having to stop your hobby? Why would you want to make me that evil woman?

He didn't understand.... I doubt he ever will!

Well, one solution is to tell your DH you're going out for the whole day tomorrow. Leave first thing - bish bosh. What's he gonna do now? Because that's the situation he puts you in every bloody weekend.

Fair enough if your dc has a hobby which takes a lot of time, but why does DH have to stay for the entire time too? He has two other children who hardly get to see him. Plus it sounds like some of the dc's hobby time is spent waiting around for his dad to finish the hobby - I can't believe he thought it was reasonable to get him back after 9 when he still had to eat and had school in the morning (assuming ds is not 17).

I don't think you can allow yourself to be influenced by the previous bullying. You aren't bullying him, you are trying to have a mature discussion about a problem in your family setup. Your comment I realised that if I was nagging I didn't exactly make home a place he wanted to be is of concern - 'nagging' is a very loaded (and sexist) term. It's not your job to make home a place he wants to be, it's his sodding job to be in it to look after your children.

His black and white responses are designed to force you to back down; 'fine then I won't do my hobby' - the only response possible to that is 'I have no wish to prevent you from doing your hobby but your needs have to be balanced with the needs of the whole family'.

He's being a manchild. Call him on his stupid ultimatum

Next time he says he won't do the hobby, say 'Ok, fine'. If he complains, ask him why he offered that solution (which you had not asked for) if he had no intention of doing it.

Disregard the bullying 'history', honestly. It's not relevant. If it were, he would have done more than hinted, he would have told you about it and how it still makes him feel.

Please do not admit to 'nagging'-such a loaded term. Wanting a proper discussion and negotiation about something so fundamental to family relationships is not nagging.

Once you have children you have to negotiate how you spend your time, with and without the children. If you are SAHM, you also need a break and the chance to have time to yourself. It is really unfair to have one parent spend hours outside the home away from some but not all children (though actually even the one that went with him seems to have had relatively little of his attention).

Don't weaken on this, keep pushing him to talk properly about it.

He is an absolute arse. Can he not see how unequal this all is? He is being very selfish. And btw the 'black n white' answers are called 'blocking' or 'diverting' and have the aim of shutting the conversation off. Completely unreasonable. What a nob.

Thanks for your responses. Left event with other dcs to find voice message 'we've been in for half an hour, I can't get hold of you, ds wanted to go out for something to eat but you're not here so we're going without you'.

I told him earlier that me and the other dcs were going out this evening and I already know how the conversation will go this evening.
Me 'How come you came back so early?'
DH 'You weren't happy about us coming back late on Wednesday / you don't like us to spend ages at hobby place'
Me 'That was because it was a school night, which I thought I made clear'
DH ' I can't do anything right etc etc'

And tomorrow it'll be
'We came home early yesterday, what more can I do? etc'

So why ask him why he's back early? Don't take the bait, it's obviously been done to put you in the wrong. Change the subject when he tries to raise it, it makes no odds to you when they got back in, since you were (as you always are) left looking after the other two children.

How long he spends out tomorrow has nothing to do with how long he spent out today. Conversation should go:

You: Please don't stay out too long today, I have things I want to do this afternoon which means I need to leave the children with you.
Him: But we came back early last night.
You: I have things I want to do, please be back in time.
Him: I can't do anything right.
You: I have things I want to do, please be back in time.

You can't engage with this, it's pointless. You can pretend not to notice when he goads you, though.

He is being deliberately obtuse in order to manipulate you into always being the bad guy.
This is very childish. It is time he grew up.
At the moment you are the only adult in the family. That is a very lonely position.

"He's very black and white in things but often gets the wrong end of the stick" - no, he's pretending to misunderstand so you can't rain on his parade. He's deliberately doing the poor me thing. And I really can't see how his being bullied some years ago at school has anything to do with his behaviour - except that it's made you wary of upsetting him.

He replied that it was easier to just not go as he lost track of time etc.

Your response should be, "Ok, if that's easier for you, then don't go. It's up to you".

Thank you. I'll try a repeated reasonable request next time and not get drawn in.

As it happens I did comment on the early return and it turned out that ds had had enough early on (it's a physically quite demanding hobby) and so (I assume because there were no other adults there at the time) they left.

Regarding the reverting to child stance and behaviour - if and when it happens again, should I call him on it? The closest I got was to say 'the man standing in front of me is not the man who does macho hobby' but what I really wanted to say was 'you're behaving like a child!'

He did look so pathetic and cowed and sad though, but I did wonder at the time if it was done on purpose to make me back down.

I have this problem (to a lesser extent as only one DC). I have explained to DH that we both need to 'bid' for hobby time and write it on the calendar and that it should be roughly equal over a given period of time. He is finding it hard to take on board that he cannot do his sport spontaneously now we have a DC - it needs to be at regular times, arranged at least a day or two in advance, so I can plan too. Some men feel they have some 'right' to hobby time, but if that's true, obviously women do too! Am sorry you are getting such a petulant response.

I totally agree with Phineyj, there is nothing wrong with hobbies but they must fit in with everything else - work, chores, childcare, family time, etc.

When he acts like a child, there is nothing wrong with asking him "Why are you acting like a child?" and expect an answer. If he blames you op, tell him to act like a man and have a mature discussion about it then!

Manchild, blurgghh

Oh tell him to stop playing the martyr next time he wrings his hands and plays the 'poor me' game.

Honestly Op, he's playing you like a fiddle. He understands fine. He's just playing you.

he's pretending to misunderstand so you can't rain on his parade.

^^ Exactly this He does understand. He is just trying to make you feel guilty and presenting himself as victim (so much so that you related it to him being bullied at high school!). You're not being unreasonable here. You made a perfectly reasonable request. He turned it into an either/or ultimatum in the hope of getting you to back down. It's quite manipulative of him actually.

Once you get married and start a family you no longer have the option of behaving like a child or a single person with no responsibilities.

The majority of people understand this.

It seems - from reading threads lie this on MN - that some men cannot grasp this concept. (I am sure there are women who are like this too).

Years ago, before we got married, DH and I had to go for pre-wedding counselling with the vicar. (Quaint and old fashioned I know). This was covered as part of that counselling.

I thought at the time that it was a bit OTT, but reading threads like this makes me wonder if, as a society, we should be doing more to educate young men in particular about what is necessary to be a responsible partner and parent.

I agree with hassled. I don't think the former bullying is relevant, and I consider his behaviour to be manipulative. He leaving it all firmly on your shoulders and letting you be the bad guy, because he wants to continue doing as he pleases while you hold the fort at home.

Handywoman said And btw the 'black n white' answers are called 'blocking' or 'diverting' and have the aim of shutting the conversation off

Very interesting I've never heard this before.

I think he might have been feeling a bit guilty as he obviously wasn't really spending time with DS when he was late home the first time so was maybe touchier than normal.

Don't try to persuade or talk round. Just state facts as mentioned above. Get the Hobby calendar on the wall.

He is a selfish git but wouldn't we all sneak off to leave DCs if we got the chance, he is just being called to account and doesn't like it.