What's reasonable access?

[starshine62]

My husband left my 13 month old son and I 7 months ago saying he had issues and was confused over what he wanted. He said we werent broken up at this point. He came home once or twice a week and eventually moved back in just over a month ago. Last week he ended the relationship. He is now talking about when he sees our son who is 21 months old. I have suggested once a week on a sunday but only for the day as he's not been a constant in his life for so long I think they need to build on their relationship before he sleeps over at his new flat. I also said he could see him one evening in the week for a couple of hours if he gets him early from nursery. Is this reasonable? I was thinking of this lasting a few months to see how our son copes. I just want stability for him. He was quite clingy to me when his dad came home for the 4 weeks before he left. Has anyone else experienced a breakup when the children are so young?

Twice a week with no overnights sounds perfectly reasonable. Little and often is better for young dcs than a full weekend with long gaps between.

Fwiw, try to frame it in your mind and in your discussions about him, that he actually left you, not your DS as he still wants a relationship with DS. I know it hurts, but for your DS's sake he needs to feel that his dad didn't leave HIM.

I know it's hard having to let your DS go at all, but it's good that his dad wants to spend time with him and you will, in time, appreciate a break now and then to take the pressure off.

I agree with little and often. My stbxh left when ds had just turned 2 and he was only prepared to do every other weekend (work was and still is the priority for him) and ds found it really hard. He would be a total pain till wed after coming back because he couldn't handle it. Unfortunately stbxh refused any other arrangement despite myself and the mediation lady suggesting other more suitable alternatives. It just about works now and ds is now 4.5.

Thanks for the advice. I feel apprehensive about it all asmy stbxh has never really spent a great deal of time alone with our ds. When he was at home he tended to prefer to do his own activities (he likes to run, cycle etc) and I cant think of a time where he's ever spent all day on his own with ds. Since leaving 7 months ago he has been seeing a therapist as he couldn't work out his feelings and part of that was to do with he wasn't sure he wanted to be a dad. He has now decided he does. I've put it all in an email to stbxh today and I'm waiting for a reply. I'm sure I probably should have spoken to him but he only ended it a week ago and its all a bit raw but I'm keen we establish a routine for our ds as he's had a lot of disruption over the last 7 months.

well you will have to discuss it with him and see what he he had in mind. It may be that he is in whole hearted agreement with your proposals or could be that he is thinking more of a 50/50 shared care arrangement. I'm sure that open honest negotiation will find something thats right for you two and your ds. Everyone and every situation is unique.

I'm a dad with 50/50 so obviously i would be hoping to negotiate for more than you are offering. My anecdotal evidence from cases where access has been fiercely contested (or refused) by one party seems to be that almost without fail the courts order one night per week and every other weekend.

Thanks. I just wondered what the opinion was on my initial starting point. I'm hoping he agrees so we can see how our ds handles the new situation. He's so young and he's been quite clingy recently so I think he knows something is going on. He works really long hours so I don't think he'll want 50/50 and to date he hasnt done a great deal of the looking after of our ds.

TBH I'm still struggling with the fact that we're in this situation. We were together for 12 years and didnt rush into having a baby, it was all planned so when he left when our ds was 13 months it was a huge shock.

What would you be happy with if the tables were turned?

TBH I would never have left. We didn't argue, although I guess somewhere along the way he stopped loving me. I would have tried harder to make my family work.

However, if I had behaved as he has and hadn't really spent much time with my ds (which has been his choice) then I would understand a slow start to see how ds handles the change. I'm not saying these arrangements are forever, I just dont want ds to be upset with things as he's so young and very close to me because of what has happened.

You would have left though, had it been you who stopped loving him. Else you would have been unhappy forever.

In my own experience, dd was happy to go to Dad's almost 50/50 at a year old. We had both always worked full time so it wasn't like she was unused to being without me so that helped. She now has an excellent relationship with both me and her dad and our respective husband/ wife. I don't believe her dad would be the dad he is today had he not been thrown in at the deep end, so to speak.

Had I had real concerns about his ability to care for her it would have been different but it was just the usual, you know - didn't dress her as suitably as I would, took her to McDonald's, let her stay up late, etc etc. nothing life threatening but it's hard to watch from a mothers point of view.

I don't think it would hurt for him to have a mid week stay over and maybe alternate fri/ Saturday nights. And it will give you chance to build a new life for yourself. Think of it as a baby having a new childminder or going to nursery. It's hard for them the first few nap times or meal times but they get the hang of a new caregiver pretty quick - and this one is it's dad!

It could be easier to establish something now, than to build on it when DS is used to not spending time with dad.

The fact that you started out by saying he left your DS first makes me suspicious that you want low contact time for negative reasons.

Starshine, i'm not criticising you or your proposal (sees my earlier reply) but do i detect a tiny bit of hurt and dare i say it, an element of punishment in your replies and your position?

Your ex has treated you abysmally no doubt, he may for all i know be the worst husband ever. But this decision has to be made without any regard to all of that, just how will he perform as a dad? In the long run can i say that imo the most beneficial outcome is to have both parents actively and fully involved in their lives. (and as you get your life back after this mess you may actually come to appreciate time without your DD as it makes having a social life and dating etc a WHOLE lot easier)

It sounds from what you say that he may find what you are proposing acceptable, but you may meet with stiff resistance to such limited contact. If you are genuine in your reasons it may be helpful if you plan out roughly a timeline for increasing access and building up to overnight midweek and weekends? It would demonstrate that you are serious about access and not trying to 'punish' him. (which would be my feeling if i were him and you proposed such limited access)

Either way i hope you discuss it in an amicable way and find a solution that fits you all.

It depends on your sons reaction to it, I think your proposal sounds reaosnable for an interim period, then you can work on increasing contact depending on how the initial contact goes.

I've a friend who's ex sees their 12 month old every sunday it works for them and doesn't unsettle the baby too much, she's happy to be flexible when he wants to see DS at other times (but mostly he doesn't).

Run it by your ex and see what he has to say. Then go from there.

Oh come on, she said he left "my son and I" at the beginning, which is what happened.

It is disingenuous to say "what would you want?". This is a man who wasn't sure he wanted to be a father (helpfully after the baby had arrived), and has never really done much with his son, preferring to do hobbies such as cycling rather than engaging as a family.

The OP on the other hand has been doing everything for the past 21 months. You know, actually being a parent.

It cannot possibly be in the child's best interests to have 50:50 residence. He needs to get to know his father properly first. It is clear that this is what the OP is aiming for.

Agree with dollius. Not in best interest for small child to be 50:50 and if I can find the studies relating to this I will come back and post links.

If he walked out on you and your child I would recommend taking it slowly as a) you've been the main caregiver up until now and b) if he wasn't sure about the whole having a child thing and upped and left there is nothing stopping him from doing the same in a year. How would your child feel then if dad suddenly walks off a second time? Lots to think about, follow your gut and take it slow.

Maybe my phrasing initially wasn't great and I'm certainly not trying to punish him. I want my son to have a good relationship with his dad but I think my son doesnt know him as his dad at the moment as hes been in and out for so long. When he first left and we were still technically together I left the access up to him and he didn't come around very much especially in the beginning. I just thought it would be best to see how our son behaves after a few visits. Plans may change after only a few weeks if things seem to go well. My stbxh doesnt have a lot of patience and whilst he certainly would never harm our son he has said things like when he's feeding him and hes throwing food around he gets angry. I just thought an initial slow approach will also let my stbxh see how he will cope.

I do appreciate everyone taking the time to comment. I just want the best for my son and to be honest I know of know one else who has gone through this.

In light of your last answer I'm sure that you will sort it all out pretty well tbh. Good luck.

I think you're right about a slow approach, but to me that means little and often, not long stretches at a time, for both their sakes, as if your ex isn't very patient, then you don't really want your DS being in a position that your ex can lose his rag. Short bursts of contact mean that the familiarity will still be there for DS and your ex doesn't have to deal with a toddler for long periods when he is not familiar with his routine etc.

Try to find a way to make contact out of your home for your own sanity though - there's no reason why your ex has to be in your space. If he has to make his work more flexible to be able to visit your son before bedtime, so be it. If it's important to him he will have to find a way to make it work without disrupting your DS's routine. Does his work have the potential for late starts or early finishes to enable him to see DS during the week?

I actually think you're being incredibly reasonable. It's much better to start off very little but regular which will give your child time to get used to this other person who he has apparently spent very little time with to date. And considering how young the kid is, probably doesn't remember half of that anyway....

It's not only to prevent your child from getting stressed out, but also in a way it's kinder to your ex. If he has had pretty much fuck all to do with the child until now, then it gives him time to ease into it and to get used how to actually look after a small child. I imagine it would be extremely stressful to go from zero parenting to having to look after a child's needs 24/7 for days at a time.

If he gets angry because his baby throws food he is going to have a big shock when the temper tantrums start .

I think you sound very reasoned and like you'll make the fight decision.

mytit I don't think you'll find those studies. I think you'll find that a lot of professionals suggest that very tiny children have little and often rather than, say, a 50/50 where it's week on and week off. But little and often could really be one day on, one day off.
When they get a social life they generally stay more with one parent who is near to their school and friends etc so I think it's important good parent relationships are built when they're tiny. Where a young child isn't used to being cared for by dad, it will take some adjusting, but we know children thrive on good relationships with both parents so the initial trickiness IMO is worth it.

Thanks everyone. Its really good to get opinions on this. He has responded but hasn't really mentioned if he agrees. So far we've made the arrangement that he's taking wed afternoon off work (which is a one off as he hasnt seen our ds for a week) and then for the day on sun. I guess we'll go from there. Im assuming that as he hasn't commented specifically on my proposal that he agrees for now.

Dreading these days now. Whilst its good for ds to spend time with him. Id quite happily never see him again after all he's done.

That's good star. Now my dd is older we've arranged a handover pattern that means it's always somewhere else so we never see each other. Assume your little one will be at nursery soon so if his dad picked him up from there and back to there the next day, you may never have to see him again

Now there's a happy thought :-) we'll see how it goes. I fo know he's got his future brother in laws stag do the weekend after this coming one so that will be interesting to see what he wants to do. Not that he's mentioned that yet. I did say the other day I'd like a couple of weeks notice for plans which I think is fair enough.

Has anyone been through mediation?