Your opinion - was this sexual abuse?

[Askingasensitivequestion]

I have name changed as this is personal and embarrassing and I may very well regret posting it. Didn't know which section to go for so I hope this is ok.

My Dad did something inappropriate when I was a little girl and I was wondering if the wise women of Mumsnet would count this as sexual abuse or just inappropriate. It's always played on my mind and I can't ask anyone else.

When I was somewhere between 6 and 8 I was downstairs with my Dad, wrapped in a towel after having a bath. My mum was upstairs bathing my younger siblings. I don't remember the context or how he brought the subject up but my Dad was drunk (he had a drink problem and was often tipsy, slurring etc) and he started talking about my inverted nipples, something my parents had noticed about me and my sister. He said that he thought he could fix them by sucking them out and he asked if he could have a go. I remember being embarrassed and feeling pressured but I always wanted my Dad's approval so I reluctantly said 'ok'. I know that I agreed to it because I remember regretting it and feeling like it was my fault. Next thing I remember is him clamping his mouth over one of my nipples and sucking really hard. I was horrified and felt really embarrassed and stupid for agreeing to it and I wanted him to stop but he had hold of me really hard.

Soon after my Mum came downstairs, pushed him off me and they had a fight.

I know it was inappropriate and very stupid of him but I've always thought that his intentions were an experiment to see if he could fix it rather than sexual and therefore it wasn't sexual abuse.

What do you think?

To add some further context about my Dad. I don't have a relationship with him now. He was violent when drunk and generally unpleasant so I ended up having as little to do with him as possible after my Mum left him. He used to lose his temper and hit us in the head with either his closed hand or a fist and he also would kick us on these occasions. I know that he was physically abusive but no one in my family will talk about any of this. My Mum down plays it and some of my siblings still see my Dad so they would be angry with me if I mentioned this. They won't even admit he was an alcoholic despite the fact that he was drunk several times a week.

The only other inappropriate thing I remember him doing is challenging me and my sisters to 'flash open out towels' as quickly as possible so he could see if he was quick enough to take a picture of us naked. This only happened once but I remember the photos being developed. I know that sounds really wrong but I think he was doing it as a game rather than for sexual reasons.

I know this doesn't even matter now as it was 25 years ago but I'm just curious how other people would see it.

Thank you. That's very kind of you.

I don't feel like this is something that affects my day to day life. I'm a fully functioning, happy adult with a happy marriage, thriving children and good career.

I have an ok relationship with my family although I have a tendency to think of my childhood quite negatively because I experienced bad things that were never talked about or acknowledged.

I think about it from time to time but it doesn't upset me particularly. The reason I am thinking about it now is that my Dad is in poor health and I wonder if I would regret not seeing him as an adult or introducing my children to him if he died. I haven't seen him in over a decade. All the rest of my family have. He has met other grandchildren and they liked him. I don't think he is dangerous now. To see him would mean taking a holiday to where he is which doesn't appeal to me much but I wonder if I should be able to tell my kids in years to come that they did meet their grandad. My husband is adamant he wouldn't want to meet him because of his treatment of me as a child and the fact that he has made no effort to have a relationship with me or make amends.

Yes, it was abuse. And I'm so sorry that happened, and that you grew up in that awful situation.
I can understand why you wouldn't want to do anything about it now, and I think it is sensible to not have any kind of relationship with him. Would writing him a letter be any good? Saying, I know what you did and it was wrong. Might that give you closure? Just an idea.
You sound very together and I'm so glad you have a good life now. (I really hope that isn't patronising, I just admire your whole attitude.)

I don't feel like this is something that affects my day to day life. I'm a fully functioning, happy adult with a happy marriage, thriving children and good career.

Brilliant :)

They say the best revenge is living well. Whist revenge is not quite the right word here, the sentiment still applies.

Thank you. You know, there's something therapeutic about getting this out in the open.

There was this one time where I was 11 and had been on my first school trip away from home for 5 days. It was a French exchange and I had found it really scary and hard. The journey home was long and I was really tired and emotional and all I wanted was my Mum. The only good bit about the trip was that I'd spent all my francs on cheese, chocolate and biscuits etc from France for my family. I got home and excitedly got it all out to show my Dad. It was late and I hadn't realised my Dad was really drunk and he went mad that I had forgotten his birthday and not bought a card. He must have already been angry with my Mum and me getting home then just angered him even more. He started shouting that I was an ungrateful bitch and that he wanted to kill me. He was really aggressive, terrifyingly so. My Mum put me to bed with a teddy and told me that if it got worse she would take me to a relative's for the night all the while he was shouting that he would strangle me if he saw me. He ranted for a while but didn't come upstairs so I fell asleep.

I've got quite a few bad memories like that. Anyway, sorry for the self indulgent post. Just getting it off my chest I suppose.

I appreciate all your replies. I'm glad I posted.

xx

Hi O.P. Yes this was abuse. It made me go cold reading it. I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

Please seek counselling.xxx

I visited my father on his deathbed having not seen him for much of my adult life. It was like looking at a stranger.

I would not have introduced my children to him. I never knew my grandfather and it does not affect me in any great way, and I gather he was a horrible man.

For you, on the other hand - well, I am personally glad I saw my father before he died. I cannot imagine having not gone, to not made peace with him in my head as he was barely able to communcate, barely able to recognise me.

I almost didn't go, having travelled 400 miles I was ready to turn around, but I now believe I would have regretted it for the rest of my life.

If he had been in better health, however, and able to be more communicative, I am not sure how it would have panned out. He was given weeks to live and we had a couple of arguments in that time, over the phone. I sent him a letter to tell him that I love him, despite everything. A day or so later he declined and he was almost gone. Gone enough that our last conversation - if could call it that - was a peaceful one that I will never forget.

It's so complicated and I remember agonising over it as you are now. I was not really in contact with him during his illness and it brings up awful feelings in my stomach. I regret that, despite what I thought of him.

My advice is to go with your gut. Let your instincts guide you. Don't let others sway your decisions - many advised against me seeing him- more than supported me to go. I would resent them now, because deep down, and despite everything, I wanted to go, no matter what others with no experience in such things thought of me and I can't imagine it any other way.

Don't do what you think you should do, but do what you want to do. And remember that seeing him is not about making amends between yourselves, but amends in your own head. You will be the one that is alive when he dies. Think about what you want to gain from this, not what you feel he or anyone else should.

I think it's brilliant that you've gotten on with your life and haven't let it effect you on a day to day basis.

There are so many people who are unable to do this.

I suppose you'll have to think long and hard about visiting him before he dies, I personally don't see any benefit in letting him see your children and would your dh want you to take them?

Stay strong xxx

Thank you for your kind words. It's amazing that strangers on the Internet can provide such support. It's much appreciated.

Paradoxical - thank you for sharing your experience. I'm sorry about what your Dad put you through but I'm glad that you got some kind of closure in the end.

I don't feel ready to see him yet. I'm just worried that if I put it off forever he will die and I'll regret not making the effirt. We are visiting the country he lives in for a holiday this year but too far away to visit him. If we like it there we could go back next year only somewhere closer so I could see him while DH stays with the DC. It's something to think about.

Thanks for your opinions.

xx