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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help me make sense of this

30 replies

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 10:16

This is likely to be fairly long and rambling and I'm not really sure if I'm asking anything specific but it would be good to get people's views on everything if they have any.

My DB has recently got back in contact with me after nearly 10 years, we've always had sporadic contact mainly via email but I've never known where he was living or had any other contact details for him. He's always said before that he didn't want contact as he felt he wasn't a very nice person & he really didn't want contact with my parents. However he suddenly emailed to see if I wanted to meet up and I've now seen him twice along with my DP & DS.

The reason there's been no contact for so long was that my parents kicked him out when he was about 18, they blame his behaviour (which was often quite extreme, physical violence, shouting, drugs etc). They blamed the drug (cannabis) and said that he had changed overnight when he started smoking it. I've always accepted this line, I don't remember very much of the situation as I spent as much time as possible out of the house or in my room. They're very cut & dried in their attitude, it was the drugs that changed him, they did everything they could, they want no contact if he's still taking drugs (which he is). They have never tried to contact him since he left.

My brother says this is rubbish, he says smoking weed does not change who he is & if anything it makes him more mellow. Thinking about it I think this is true as i've seen him high & he is much more relaxed. He is angry, when he talks about my parents there is actual hate there, especially towards my DM. He told me yesterday that for much of his early childhood he remembers my parents arguing a lot, he remembers my mum shouting at him constantly, being sent to his room all the time and her sometimes just not talking at all and then suddenly blowing up. I remember some of this but am a bit younger and I spent a lot of time reading in my room out the way. I've recently found out my mum had very severe PND after having both of us & after me was in a mother & baby unit for months. My brother was about 18 months at the time. My dad says it took 6 years for her to recover.

He says one of his earliest memories was waking up hearing my parents screaming that they were going to kill each other, he went to see them & my dad had a telephone chord wrapped around my mums neck while she screamed at him to 'just do it'. He says he ran at my dad to stop him and my dad shoved him out the way. He can't remember what happened next but remembers telling himself that as soon as he could he would leave & never come back. I remember the screaming from this night but didn't see what actually happened, but I believe him. I think arguments like that were very common but I don't think the violence was.

He is angry about this, angry at my dad for doing it & at my mum for making him (I know, I know). But most of all angry that he exposed to it.

My parents don't acknowledge any of this. From talking to them our childhoods were normal & happy. I find it so hard to reconcile my parents then to the people they are now. My mum is a doting DGM to DS and very supportive of me, out relationship til I was 18 was fairly strained but now is very good. My dad is the most laid back, non violent person I know. I don't remember him ever shouting at me.

There is a family event this summer that means they will be in the same room for a significant amount of time, I'm dreading it. My dad says they will treat him as a stranger (wtf! their own son?), my brother says he will stay out their way, and my mum has said nothing.

It's all too much for me to even think about at the moment, and to be totally honest I don't want to think too deeply about my childhood as I'm afraid there is stuff that I just don't want to remember.

If you got this far, thank you. Any insight or views are welcome.

OP posts:
winkywinkola · 09/06/2014 10:38

It sounds like an awful awful childhood that you both had.

It's not really surprising your db fled as soon as he could.

Has your db ever been abusive or unpleasant to you?

If not, then I would take steps to try and forge a relationship with him.

It sounds like your parents are in denial about their own terrible marriage and the effects it's had on their children. They are acknowledging zero responsibility. That is shameful too.

Do not let them influence your decision about your relationship with your brother.

Baby steps. x

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 10:51

Thanks winky.

He was pretty unpleasant towards me sometime, I remember him once hitting me with the buckle end of a belt when I was about 13. We always fought growing up, I'm not sure if it was any more than other siblings fight though.

The odd thing is that I don't remember it being particularly awful, in fact I don't remember very much at all. DP says this is probably because I just distanced myself & blocked it all out, and I think he's probably right.

My brother says he remembers hitting his girlfriend once when he was about 16 and feeling sick after as he knew how wrong it was but at the time he couldn't stop. I remember the argument he had with my dad about it after & my dad saying 'we didn't bring you up to be like this' and DB says all he could think was you hypocrite. He also remembers my dad saying to him 'no wonder you're mad, you're mother is too' and that he was stupid & useless and would never do anything with his life. I don't remember my dad ever talking to me like that and it's really altering my view of my parents.

I don't know whether to try to confront my parents about it all as their complete denial is sickening.

I feel awful that I didn't realise what DB was going through & just swallowed the whole drugs line.

OP posts:
Galvanised · 09/06/2014 10:54

Your brother and yourself had a dreadful childhood. You say yourself that you remember the arguments.
Your brother has chosen weed as a way to cope, you have chosen to accept your parents version because that's how you cope.
You might feel you are not ready to deal with everything right now, but honestly, it's probably only by going to counselling that you, and your brother, can start to heal.

winkywinkola · 09/06/2014 10:59

I wouldn't try and get the truth from your parents. Sounds like they would never admit it anyway.

Listen to your brother's version. Male up your own mind.

He's older than you? If so, he may remember more and have seen more on his childhood.

I'm not saying he's right. All I saying is don't dismiss him without hearing him out.

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 11:02

I have thought about counselling, but feel like I'd be wasting their time as it's not like I was abused or anything.

I get on really well with my parents now as well, they're not overly involved with our life, don't push for anything but they're always there if I need them and are happy to help out if asked. I can't reconcile them with the parents my brother remembers as a child, at the same time I'm not going to dismiss what he says as I think it's probably right.

The event in the summer is my wedding and I'm dreading it. It's pretty small scale & I'm going to have to watch my parents studiously ignore my brother while he gets as high as he can. He's pretty outspoken and won't back down from any argument if one kicks off.

I honestly feel like I want to stick my head back in the sand as it's all so difficult to even think about.

OP posts:
SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 11:04

He's older than me by about 18 months winky.

Is it wrong to want to confront them with it? I feel like they've treated him so badly, written him off & brushed off any responsibility they had. I can't imagine ever treating DS like that.

I just want them to acknowledge it.

OP posts:
Cabrinha · 09/06/2014 11:22

From what you remember yourself, your brother sounds believable.
I don't think your parents will ever admit responsibility, or even confirm much if anything of their behaviour.
My mother won't, and my heart breaks for my little sister as it would make such a difference for her.

Look, it's a lot to deal with, and you may choose to continue your current OK relationship with your parents.

Your contact with brother has been sporadic for a decade, you've only just met up. Why not speak to him about not coming to your wedding, but coming to dinner with you and your fiancé the night /a few nights before?

I'm no contact with my parents, and I would have understood completely if my sisters had asked me not to attend their weddings, I really would.

Galvanised · 09/06/2014 11:24

Sticking your head in the sand will work short term, but there could well be something that stops you from being able to do this in the future.
You are already experiencing this when you talk to your brother and you feel confused.
How will you feels when your child gets to the age you were when you spent a lot of time in your room? Do you think that's normal? Would you be happy if your child felt they needed to 'hide' like that?

Counselling isn't exclusively for people who have experienced what you think is abuse. It is for anyone that is trying to make sense of their life.

The dynamic in your family is such that it suits your parents to have a scapegoat. This person is your brother. They failed him. They have also failed you.

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 11:46

Thanks Cabrinha, I do want to continue to have a relationship with my parents as I feel it really is a good one now. I can't help feeling that this isn't fair on my brother though. Do I just treat it as though they don't know each other? This feels so false. I couldn't ask him not to come, I do really want him to be there. Also he wouldn't understand if I asked him not to come, he's very quick to take offence and it would likely end with no further contact. I suspect he got in touch as he wants to feel part of a family again, he has plenty of friend but never any long term relationships and is living with people he only just tolerates. He's brilliant with DS and DS has taken to him very qickly which is unusual for him.

I know you're right Galvanised, it just all feels to much to face. When I look at DS and think what my brother was going through at that age it breaks my heart. I lost it big time with DS a few months ago & was horrified to hear my mothers voice come out of my mouth, I swore it wouldn't happen again and now take time to think about how I react.

When you put it like that counselling does sound like it would help, at the moment I'm completely unable to make any sense of it all. I feel like I'm betraying both my brother & my parents. how would I access this though?

I know now that they used the drugs as something to pin the behaviour on & brush of any blame that might come their way. They liked to say that they didn't bring him up like that, that I hadn't turned out like that so it couldn't be anything they had done. But I spent most of my teenage years in bed or comfort eating, my attendance at school was appalling and I wasted 5 years in a relationship with someone much older and very manipulative/abusive. None of that is acknowledged.

OP posts:
wafflyversatile · 09/06/2014 11:50

Firstly there are 10 years between my oldest and youngest siblings and our memories of childhood and our experiences of our parents at that time can vary quite a bit. None of our memories are 100% accurate. We have nothing as extreme as this to compare.

It's a shame that you parents are so resilient to remembering anything about their less admirable behaviour. You can't make them. None of you can change what happened in the past and current stances are unlikely to change.

If I have any advice to offer I'd say that I'd accept that your brother's memories are valid and that the choice he has made to cut contact was the right one for him. It seems quite common that more favoured children take the side of their parents because their sibling's memories (understandably) don't make sense to them. You were brought up in the same house but your 'environments' and reactions to certain events differed quite a lot. This is the case for all children. We do not grow in the same environment as our siblings. You are not the same people. You are all adults now. You've made your choices of where to take your relationships with each other based on your own experiences. Also I would advise that you don't try to engineer any teary reunions at the event! Just stand firm to your parents that you do have a relationship with your brother and that is your choice.

You may want to go to counselling if you think it would help.

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 12:04

Thanks waffly, I know that his decision was for the best although initially I think it was forced on him by my parents as it was them that kicked him out and stopped contact. He did try to come home but they wouldn't have it. I am under no illusions about a 'tearful reunion' as I witnessed the fall out when a well meaning aunt tried this at my Granddad's funereal, it added a whole new level of awfulness to the day!

I'm probably being defensive here but I don't so much remember being favoured as ignored & left to get on with things as long as I didn't cause any problems. I think he feels that I was the golden child though, although he doesn't seem to resent it.

I don't know if counselling would help but I am struggling to make sense of it on my own.

I'm actually quite worried my mum could see this as I know she uses MN & she knows I do to. I just really felt like I needed to get some opinions though.

OP posts:
wafflyversatile · 09/06/2014 12:13

Yep, I cross posted with your last post and it does sound more like that than being 'favoured' but that maybe your brother 'acted out' in response and drew their ire, while you 'internalised' more and comfort eating didn't cause them any bother so you were left to it. Also being younger you would maybe have had less understanding of how bad things were.

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 12:36

You're definitely right Waffly. I spent most of my time in bed reading, I loved books and pretty much lived in them, and I think they saw this as a good thing. I used to make up stories to add myself into the book and desperately wanted to go to boarding school! Thank goodness I didn't discover Harry Potter til I was a teenager, I would have been crushed when I din't receive my Hogwarts letter!

We have a long standing family tradition of never talking about things so as well as not really understanding I chose to ignore and avoid.

I think I let my brother down badly though, I never tried to stand up for him. The day they kicked him out he pushed me over & I shouted that I didn't want him there anymore. I blamed him entirely for all the arguing. Even though there were a few times I remember when we were on our own I could clearly see how much he was hurting and that he wasn't much more than a boy.

I'm clearly wallowing in self pity now!

OP posts:
wafflyversatile · 09/06/2014 12:39

You were a child and had grown up in that environment. It was your parents who let him down. What would they have done differently if you'd stood up for him?

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 12:43

They threw him out because I said I wanted him gone, and at the time I really meant it. DP says it was probably for the best as if he'd stayed things would only have got worse but I can't be sure. Maybe they would have improved.

OP posts:
Galvanised · 09/06/2014 12:49

You poor thing, and your poor brother.
You are not responsible for what your parents did. They were the adults.
Your gp might enable to point you in the right direction for counselling, when you are ready.
I would say though that you would probably need fairly long term counselling. You say you are avoiding thinking about everything, it can take a while to get everything out into the open.
And you are absolutely not wallowing in self pity.

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 13:12

I have just self referred for nhs counselling! I googled local counselling services and there is an NHS centre 5 minutes walk from my house, it had an online form to self refer so I filled it in! I know it will only be short term but maybe if it's helpful I can look at more later.

I don't want any of this to impact on DS so I need to be able to straighten things out at least a bit.

The suddenness of the contact and seeing him twice in barely over a week (two Sundays in a row) has just thrown everything up in the air for me. I feel so selfish for even thinking about how it affected me when it was him that went through it all.

And I genuinely love my parents and we have a good relationship now so this is so hard to think that it was them that did this.

Thank you so much for responding, getting outside perspective really has helped. I know I need to move forward really and accept what my brother is saying. And I do really think talking through the past with someone who isn't DP (who has been brilliant) will help me try to make some sense of it.

I feel so much guilt about it all and I don't know why.

OP posts:
Galvanised · 09/06/2014 13:19

You went through it all too.
That's probably why you stayed in your room, comfort ate, dodged school, ended up in an abusive relationship and now are unable to discuss anything of these events with your parents.
It's not selfish at all.

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 13:37

Thanks Galvanised, when you see it listed out it doesn't sound great does it. I think going away to university allowed me to move on & effectively close the door (and bolt it well!) on everything. When I came back I was pregnant with DS and it was like a fresh start I think, I just concentrated on DS and my parents love him to bits. They would never treat him the way they treated us, if they did I wouldn't allow him to see them.

I now have a beautiful son, a supportive, loving fiancee, decent job & our own home. So I didn't feel the need to dredge it all up. My brother says he was out of sight & out of mind, which is awful but true.

He says he can't have any sort of meaningful relationship as he can see himself reenacting everything he witnessed. He has no family support although has good friends, he says his best friend is 65, which is older than my dad. He lives with people he just about tolerates but does have a good job which he enjoys.

I want to support him but when he talks about everything my stock response seems to be to say I don't really remember which isn't helpful for either of us.

OP posts:
Galvanised · 09/06/2014 13:38

Good luck, and be kind to yourself!

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 13:42

Thank you, this has been the push I needed I think. It seems as though I do have a lot to talk about!

OP posts:
wafflyversatile · 09/06/2014 14:05

Good luck with your therapy and to your brother too.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 09/06/2014 14:11

I think that's great you're going to see a counsellor - I'm a counsellor, and you won't be wasting anyone's time Smile. Loads of people go to see counsellor's for all sorts of different reasons. If it's causing you pain and confusion, it's worth trying to sort it out Thanks

SmilingandWaving · 09/06/2014 14:19

Thanks Waffly.

And thanks Avon, it's reassuring to hear that I won't be sent away! Can I ask what it might involve? Will it just be me talking or will they ask questions? Will they help provide any answers or is it just a chance to talk it all through?

OP posts:
AvonCallingBarksdale · 09/06/2014 14:31

Hi, smiling. It depends what sort of counsellor you'll see. I'm guessing if you've self-referred via NHS, it'll be a CBT therapist, so it might be quite short-term and the therapist will listen to you and come up with strategies with you for making things easier and more understandable for you. If you see a private counsellor where you're paying you have more control over how long you see the counsellor for. A person-centred therapist will go at your pace, be totally non-judgemental, empathic and honest with you. They'll take your lead, but try and help you make more sense of things. They might use things like genograms where you look at everyone's "place" in the family and other visual "tools" if that's useful for you. Person-centred counselling will be non-directive, ie, they won't tell you what to do, but rather work alongside you. This, along with CBT, is good at getting to the root of what's wrong and changing behaviours if necessary. A good therapist will really listen to you and go with what you want, but it may also be challenging and seem hard, so can seem to make you feel worse before you feel better IYSWIM. They won't tell you what to talk about and it's a 2-way dialogue. Bear in mind that short-term counselling can sometimes be 10 sessions, so it might be that you end of transferring to private if you feel like you'd benefit from longer-term therapy. There are also counsellors trained in the more psychodynamic/psychoanalytical mode, but I can't comment on that really as it's not my discipline. HOpe that makes sense! Feel free to PM Smile

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