Parenting a difficult Preteen, school has suggested CBT, and removal. How can I help him?

[TroubledPreteen]

My son is 12 and in Year 7.

He has always been emotional, but slightly lacking in empathy, and dont always see the full picture and the consequences of his own actions.

He swears a lot. We dont swear at home. He swore at a teacher.
He is dis-proportionally disappointed at small issues that does not go his way.
He can be aggressive.
He sulks.
He cannot handle losing at games, not even monopoly.
He becomes really down if he is not doing well.
He can be attention seeking.
He has few (no) friends.
He is lonely.
He desperately wants to fit in.

There has been ongoing problems in his first year of senior school. He was violent to a pupil the other day, and school has suggested that this school is not the right environment for him, and we should consider finding a different school. (He is at an indie) They suggest CBT and counselling to learn how to interact socially and deal with disappointment. It is important to do it now, before the hormones of puberty hits.

I am crushed. I really thought we had found a good school for him. Now it turns out that they are not keen on him staying. They say he needs a fresh start. Well, he had a fresh start in Y7, so I am not sure that him moving schools is to the best for him.

I have been trying so hard to talk to him about cause and effect, about consequences, and his reputation, and him not acting in a way that serves him the best. He is clearly not happy so how can I help him? We are seeing his GP tomorrow, but where to go from here?

As well as CBT and counselling, how about enrolling him in an out of school activity? I'm thinking about something like Scouts where there is structure, activity and - if you're lucky - good leadership that encourages teamwork, sportsmanship and penalises aggression. If it's a different group of children to the ones he goes to school with and if they live locally he may make some friends.

He is doing kickboxing twice a week, which I thought was great because usually the ethos in martial arts is good.

But I must say while he has seemed happier, his behaviour has deteriorated since he started.

There arent any scouts group for his age here, there is sea cadets.

First of all, I wanted to extend my support. I don't have experience of dealing with a difficult preteen, but I was that difficult preteen 20 years ago.

It seems as if your son is trying hard to identify with his surroundings. He wants to fit in, but doesn't feel he is, which results in the anger/aggression that further alienates him. When this doesn't work, it increases the frustration he holds and boils over in other ways. It most certainly is a cycle of extreme reactions; the emotions feed off each other and it is a confusion state.

You are doing the right thing going to your GP - but please be prepared that he or she may wish to refer your son to a child psychologist/psychiatrist. Although this sounds desperately alarming, it really sounds like the best way of identifying why your son feels the way he does, and the behaviour that stems from it. I'm not a psychologist (although studying to be one eventually) so wouldn't want to assume a diagnosis like depression, anxiety or such like (and be wary of anyone who professes to know without all facts) but it would appear that he does have some difficulty dealing with his emotions.

The best thing I think in the mean time is to provide him with a secure, stable and validating environment. It is very understandable that when children are difficult, especially when they are angry or disruptive to feel exhausted and angry yourselves. I remember being incredibly difficult with my parents, but hating myself for doing it - I just didn't know how to act. It's possible your son feels the same way; struggling to know how to be, what to do and how to feel. I used to fight and scream and shout and then collapse into tears until I was hugged and was utterly overwhelmed.

I hope someone will be along soon to advise about the school situation, but personally I agree that taking him out of school will only reinforce to him that he is "different" and would expose him to the difficulty of starting again. Perhaps the school could keep their minds open until you have spoken to your GP and have some answers to what happens next?

Sorry if any of this sounds clinical or preachy - it's not intended to be, I just didn't want to read and run x

Did this behaviour manifest in primary as well?

Do the current school want to move him for his own good, or is it a case of their being unwilling to see their results or reputation suffer? I've heard on MN before about indi schools suggesting that pupils move to other schools when it becomes clear the child will 'pull their results down'. Remember as well that indi schools don't always have the experience, the trained staff or the willingness to support children with issues such as you describe or infact any kind of special need or child who needs extra support, for whatever reason.

What does he want to do, does he want to try another school?

I went to a secondary indi & I feel for your son so badly as at my school once you had a reputation for bad behaviour then ranks were closed among peers & there was no chance at all of making friends & because the school was so small there was no chance of moving class/form or anything like that. Plus the reputation would follow the child up each year & they would never be free of it. There may be something to the fresh start approach....

Kickboxing might be an outlet for aggression but it's not a team sport and it sounds like team-work - getting along with others, learning how to lose gracefully, 'fitting in' etc - is the part that needs bolstering. Doesn't have to an organisation like scouts or cadets, of course. Drama groups can help kids improve confidence and self-esteem, for example.

I think the school should be doing more, incidentally. Realise you say he's being aggressive and has no friends but if he's being isolated by other children that's akin to bullying. What's his behaviour like at home with yourself, siblings etc?

Has he ever been assesses for ASD?

He was bullied in primary, and would lash out if goaded/teased.

When we are with family and friends with children similar ages he gets on with them really well, and there are no issues.

He gets upset at losing at monopoly at home too, but then he laughs it off.

He has never had a diagnose for any thing.

Most of the time he is a loving, lovely, kind and helpful boy. I dont want to lose that side of him to eternal aggression anger and frustration.

I am feeling absolutely heartbroken.

It is our youngest sons birthday today, and I just want to cry.

Being bullied is a horrible thing and it can cause someone to become aggressive with low moods. My own DS (just 14yo) was bullied at primary and the school intervened very quickly. He's since made some good friends at secondary school, is doing well and is never in trouble but came up against one of his old adversaries recently, was goaded again and lashed out - just like the old days

In your shoes I would be getting back to the school and putting a lot of the responsibility back on them

He sounds very like my ds, who has ASD. It may not be that at all but It's NOT the end of the world, I promise . The thing is it's best to rule these things out just in case he's not coping very well because of that. CBT and removal will NOT help if there's more going on I can assure you.

Maybe a visit to the GP and say you think there's more going on and could he be referred to CAMHS?

I'm sending you gentle hugs, TroubledPreteen - I hope what I said hasn't upset you, it wasn't intended to and I want you to know it sounds as if you are doing absolutely the right thing by your son x

He feels safe in his "home" environment, which is a great thing - he is validated and that makes a great deal of difference. It seems that the school environment is the clincher and where his emotional side is difficult to control. I would still pursue the psychologist option, if only to put your mind at rest and formulate some plans about how to deal with his school situation.

Please feel free to PM me if you wish to. x

(As for ASD signs - I think if he's struggling to fit in at school it's because the school environment is difficult for him to manage or make sense of, not because he finds difficulty in socialising or relating to people generally - you said he is happy and able to do it in 'safer' environments)

Oh, your poor boy! Sounds to me like the bullying has been quite traumatic for him and that his behaviour is his form of self defence from these experiences. I agree with others that a psychologist might be a good idea, so that he can get help to work out of this habitual behaviour and learn some coping skills. It does not sound like there is anything wrong with him or that he needs any kind of diagnosis. It sounds like he is very unhappy.

Re anger, there is lots of good stuff on this site: www.angriesout.com/ . I have anger issues myself, when I am stressed or under pressure, I react by getting angry at those around me. I have found a lot of useful info on this site. There is also a newsletter that I subscribe to.

Sending you and your son warm thoughts.

I just want a quick fix. I just want all this to go away.

My heart is truly breaking.

He wanted to go to this school so much. He was working so hard for his exams, he was so happy and upbeat when he got in, and so much looking forward to it.

I dont know what to do, how to support him, keep him happy, and not let this blow affect him too much!

He knew we were going in for a meeting this morning, he said he felt sick and did not want to go to school. Who knows what sort of day he has had to day.

My little boy.

You have to fight for him. This is the kind of moment when that term 'Tiger Mommy' starts to mean something. Forget even-handed and seeing both sides of the argument your DS needs you to stick up for him right or wrong. When others are writing him off as a problem and suggesting he leaves his beloved school, he needs you to show you're fully on his side and are not just going to cave and agree with others.

Ask him what's really going on at school and then roll up your metaphorical sleeves and take someone to task. You cannot keep a kid happy or protect him from life's ills but you can and must defend him.

I had a difficult childhood, back in the 60s/70s - if only counseling had been around then my siblings and all the problems, taking all different forms, which we have had to get over as adults might have been solved then, instead of self esteem issues etc haunting our whole lives. (I say get over but of course you just never really get over some things)

I don't think finding a good counselor is easy, nor would it be a quick fix, but imo counseling, counseling, counseling as soon as you can get him started would be brilliant for him.

(we didn't get an opportunity to talk in those days, the problem was the elephant in the room, why why why, who knows.)

Just having someone to talk through his worries with, someone not related to the school problem or to him could be so helpful. An opportunity to offload but hopefully more besides.

Hi op

Please dont let the school dictate to you about finding your son another school that's a cop out on their part, as they can't be bothered to sort something out themselves.

Ask for a meeting with head of year and find out if they have any agencies that come on to the site and offer the kids counselling. I'm a therapist and work for the YMCA seeing kids from 11 to 25 both in a school and outside In other areas.

It sounds like he would benefit from from talking to someone and the YMCA like other agencies offer free counselling to adolescence in their area, you can either phone them and self refer or go through the GP. You can google your local YMCA agency for your area.

CBT is only part of what he needs he would really benefit from someone who is integrative, this is a therapist who can offer quite a few therapies specificity for your sons needs.

OP, how are you and your son doing?

When I read your initial post, I wondered whether your DS had been checked out for an autism-spectrum condition? Not saying for sure that he has one , but a mild ASC could account for a lot of the things you’ve described. The thing is, once you know what the problem is, things can get a lot better for him. (Speaking from experience, some of it pretty painful)

Could you go and see your GP and ask for a referral to someone who could do a thorough check for an ASC and other issues? Possibly it’ll be a developmental paediatritian, possibly through children’s mental health services. It’s a big step but one worth taking because it could make a big positive difference to your DS. Schools are not always good at spotting kids who have non-obvious or unusual versions of problems like ASCs.

My DS is 16, in mainstream school, diagnosed at primary age, no direct support at present but the school keep an eye on him and make adjustments for him. He didn't get CBT but he has done specialist social-skills and anger-management group therapies and they've both made a big difference. He hasn’t had any major aggressive outbursts in the last four years. I’m not saying everything is perfect but with understanding and the right support, having an ASC isn’t stopping him from doing well.

Sorry you’re going through this. Whatever the reason for your DS's problems, it’s very hard.

Hi OP, I don't usually talk about my children but I went through something very similar when my eldest (who does have an AS diagnosis) went to an independent secondary school.

Basically they could not be arsed to accommodate him in any way and just wanted him out because he was different (and that after spending ages briefing them and arranging for one of the teachers from his old school to come and talk to them). He was basically expelled though I got the "we don't think this is the right school for him" line. That seemed like a disaster to me at the time, but was actually the start of something very good. We got him a statement of special educational needs and he is now at a tiny, high achieving special school (and sitting GCSE's now). He is a million times happier than when he was at a school which could only find fault with him.

I don't think it matters whether your DS has AS or not (though your list sounds very like my DS) because I think the treatment is the same. He needs your unconditional love and support right now because no-one wants or needs to believe that they are unacceptable.

Based on my experience, I personally would go first to your local LEA special needs team and talk to them, explain that he is likely to lose his current school place and talk to them about options. I suggest going in person rather than telephoning because i think that made all the difference in my case. Mine were incredibly helpful once I had made it clear I was not going away.

I would also see the GP and push for a referral to an ed psych. (much quicker if you can afford to go private BTW). Even if your DS does not ultimately receive an AS diagnosis, he obviously does need help in some respects, even if only social and the ed psych's report is the door to accessing that additional help and support. It sounds dark and awful to talk about special needs, but trust me it is not. It just means exactly that, he needs some extra support. By definition not everyone can fit into a generic system.

BTW many of the boys at my DS' school are there not with a specific diagnosis but because they had a horrible time at secondary school and did not fit in there, so you don't have to be AS to attend a special school.

Feel free to PM me if you want to organise to talk on the phone. I've been there and I remember how incredibly isolating it is.

He is getting unconditional love right now, and we are just sort of talking through things. I got some books from Amazon about building confidence, and frustration and anger management, and we are going through these.

I have seen his GP, but she has not made a referral yet, pending me speaking to our private health insurance, and it turns out mental health is not part of the package.

Sorry, thought I had time, but it got busy around here.

This is a bit of a journey.

I have spoken to an acquaintance whose son has Asbergers.
It ticks so many boxes with my son, I cant believe I never realized, or that no other school has picked up on it.

I know now that his current school is not good for him. It is too elitist, too rigid, and they have no SN facilities at all, nothing.

He is on the waiting list for counselling on the NHS. He is seeing a clinical psychiatrist for an assessment, and this should be interesting.

But more importantly, the school which was HIS top choice for Y7 will most likely have a place for him for Y8, starting him already in a few weeks. This school has a welfare officer and a welfare department, good pastoral care, and a department for SN. It is an outstanding school, where he also has a good friend.

Now, the issue is to steer him through this, and fingers crossed we will come out ok on the other side.

I just wanted to say you sound like a lovely mum, I can understand why you were initially very upset, but now your Tiger mum side is kicking in. This could be a really good move for him as it sounds like things are deteriorating at his current school and they are not willing/able to help support him. I would pay to see an ed psych and/or the clinical psychiatrist, it won't hurt to have a second opinion in fact it would help enormously even if it rules out an official diagnosis and, if you do get one, help find the missing piece of the jigsaw. Keep believing in your lovely son too!