Settle this argument between me and DH, and I think I am right. (Drink related)

[Etah]

Long, don't want to drip feed.

I was walking at the high street yesterday at around 6:30, wondering if Dh was already at home since he was on a single shift, and thinking about giving him a call, when he popped out of a pub with a new work mate.

Dh has been raving about this work mate a lot lately. Dh was specially chosen to work with this guy who apparently is very respected in the field and could help him a lot in his career. Before this guy Dh was very much unhappy with his work place ad other colleagues. I used to work there and I know how shit everything is. Now, Dh has a new role with this guy supervising and teaching him, so he is happy and enthusiastic again.

So Dh introduces me to work mate and asks me what I am up to. I explain I am on my way to pick up Dd from her activity. Dh than says:
_OK, we are on our way to another pub to have one final pint and I will then go home. See you later at home.
I probably made a face because work mate said to Dh something along the lines:
_No, stay with your wife and I see you tomorrow...

So Dh came with me, he asked me if I wanted to go for a drink? I said no, I was fine, we sat and waited for half an hour before the activity finished.
We went home but Dh made sure to stop at a shop and buy a couple of beers to drink at home too.

At home, we cooked a quick dinner and ate together and than together started to help Dd with her school project.
He was trying to help too much and didn't understand that she is supposed to do as much as she can on her own.
If I let him give her so many ideas and (like always) go off topic talking about a lot of other things that are not exactly relevant to that particular moment, the whole thing would take ages to get finished and it was already 9pm. I was getting stressed already because I am the one to deal with a tired child who doesn't want to wake up following morning. Even when Dd goes to bed at 7pm she has troubles waking up.

Anyway, the atmosphere changed very quickly with Dh taking everything I say very personal and being unreasonable with not understanding he was slowing the whole thing down as much as he wanted to help, he wasn't being helpful.

And I am sure that if he was 100% sober things would be easier as he gets really awkward sometimes if he is drinking

So I got really annoyed and told him (away from Dd after finally convincing him to let her get on with her work) that I was not happy with his attitude earlier on and it shouldn't take a work mate to tell him he should have come with me to pick up Dd and go home. It should happens naturally and be his idea. He thinks it is normal, he had already had that plan with his work mate and didn't want to let him down. When work mate said it was fine not to go to a final pint, he said he was happy to come with me (and he was tbh).

So, after putting Dd to bed, we had a bid row. Me complaining that I fear he has a drinking problem and he is doing nothing to solve this and he saying I get too stressed to quickly and don't appreciate anything positive he does.
BTW he acknowledges he may have a drinking problem but he is in control.
I tell him he is in denial and every alcoholic thinks the same way he thinks right now.

Back story is:
In the past his drinking was awful and it has got better but it is still too much for my liking. But I don't know if I am letting my bad experiences with parents who are heavy drinkers cloud my judgement.

He has the right to drink and go to the pub of course. I just don't want to be anxious every time that I know he is drinking out of the home.
Also all the spending. I just can't understand.

So, was I expecting too much? I just wanted him to want to come home when he saw me instead of his mate having to tell him.
Or even better, I just wanted him to come home straight after work anyway. Today he is on a double shift and will not see Dd. So why he doesn't just come home instead of the pub to spend as much time as he possibly can with her?

Am I asking too much?

I think 'alcoholic' is a word of limited usage unfortunately. Someone like your DH will say that they're not an alcoholic because they're not falling down drunk, having vodka for breakfast, shouting at pigeons in the town centre etc. They're just 'having a few drinks to unwind' the way a lot of people do every day with no ill-effects whatsoever.... so if you raise objections you're 'uptight', a 'killjoy', 'over-reacting' and so on. You may even believe that yourself still. If someone was to say 'LTB' would you think that was a harsh solution, for example?

Yet his alcohol consumption is causing tension in the family, problems at work, personality change, wasted cash and other low-level unpleasant stuff that says there is a problem. Hope Al-Anon is useful for you

I said I was going to keep count of his units as a guidance to check whatever he is an alcoholic or not".It will not work.
Well don't I need a guidance?

What anyway is your definition of an alcoholic?. They do not all drink every day, have vodka for breakfast and sit on park benches daily with a brown paper bag
This is H's definition of an alcoholic. That is why he does not think he is one.
I would say that an alcoholic is someone who would put alcohol first, like he did yesterday. Someone who can't control themselves and will go out and drink and get drunk even though they know they can't really afford and the money saved could be put towards something better. Someone who would no come home wasted knowing that this makes his relationship suffer. Someone who would rather not come home on his rare time off to spend time with their child and prefers going to drink with the same work mates he spent the whole day with. Someone who doesn't know when is time to stop when they are getting awkward. Someone who will not lie to the doctor about his drinking consumption. Someone who will not even consider drinking a beer whilst volunteering at a school fete.

It has been 8 years of this drinking talking apologising circle shit.
I want actions. I don't want to hear one more word out of his mouth.

BTW remembering now, that ages ago he did got disciplined from getting drunk at work and damaging some lockers.

How often did you see your parents drink when growing up and what did you learn from seeing all that? My dad was drinking all the time. My mum would spend the whole weekend drinking and do nothing else.

Hoping your DD will stay away from problem drinkers is just that on your part. You are currently showing her that on some level his behaviours are acceptable to you. And what exactly is he teaching her about relationships? It is hard isn't it? Of course I want a solution. I don't think people LTB at the first problem without trying.
Also even if I divorce, he is still her dad and will have access. Is not all on me, you know? My parents are divorced btw, since when I was 6.

No, can't afford to pay babysitter. He will have to be at home.

No you do not need such a guidance by counting his units. Absolutely not. He is likely also to be badly underestimating how much he is drinking anyway.

This is not and has never been a case of LTB after the first problem without trying.

What you have tried to date has not worked and will not work either. Unless HE accepts he has a drink problem there is precisely nothing you can do to help him. And he does not want your help!.

Re this comment:-
"It has been 8 years of this drinking talking apologising circle shit.
I want actions. I don't want to hear one more word out of his mouth".

And after 8 years nothing much has altered, well except his excessive drinking which has remained constant throughout.

You won't get actions from him, rather more excuses and you could easily go onto put up with this for another 8 years before you finally leaving (and by that point your DD may well want very little to do with you as well because she will ask of you why you put him before her).

What you describe re being with him is dysfunctional and chaotic; this is really life with an alcoholic. Its nothing really other than chaotic and dysfunctional. That's what your child is seeing here at home, a situation she could herself go onto replicate as an adult in her own adult relationship. She is already seeing not too dissimilar to what you did as a child. Parental alcoholism is very damaging for children to witness.

There is no solution here unless he himself realises that he has a problem and wants help for his own self. He will be an alcoholic (just as your parents are) for the rest of his days. He has and continues to put drink top of his agenda. He cares not a jot for you and DD really; his primary relationship is with alcohol. Where's the next drink coming from? is his thoughts.

He is fortunate still to be in work; he could well go onto lose his job subsequently.

You grew up with this as well, its of no surprise to me at all that you're now with someone with a drink problem. Look properly at how you and your child are being affected by his drinking. You cannot afford a sitter (can neighbour or friend look after her instead?) likely because its being spent on alcohol.

Thanks Atilla
It makes for a difficult reading but maybe I am also in denial.
His drinking was worse.
His interaction with Dd is very good and she feels loved by him.
Life here is not chaotic as such but maybe because I am in control all the time.
I can't afford a babysitter because I have also other financial problems a part from his drinking. And the meetings are in the evenings from 8pm. I don't drive and public transport take ages. Dd finish her activity far from home at 7. I will need to find someone to collect her from there, take her back home 20 minutes on the bus, sort out shower, dinner, bed time...
Probably pay for the sitter travel as well.
No, my neighbours won't do it.
I will go to the first Al-anon and see how it pans out.
Also make sure he goes to see the doctor and will go with him to add to his answers.
And I am not desperate to keep trying to make things work, life will be hard as a single mum and divorce is not a decision to take lightly.
Hope I am not in denial too.

And it is awful to feel guilty about the life your child has at home, since I am the one who is not drinking, wasting money. I am always there for her and I am the one organising everything in general. I am the one doing all the thinking.
Am I wrong for wanting to save a family for her until all the options are finished?

You're not in denial but I think you're buying into his rationale that, because he's not a falling down wino and because your life is not as chaotic as your mother's, it's not as serious a problem as it could be. The same way as he's saying he's in control around the booze, you're saying you're in control of family life... and both are rocky statements. Nobody should 'LTB' at the first hint of trouble but sometimes you have to wheel out the ultimate sanction - and mean it - to get someone to take things seriously.

I mentioned my exH's family earlier. They all had a poor relationship with alcohol, let's put it that way and one brother was, like your DH, a moron when he'd had a couple. What saved him was his DW - a very respectable and respected woman - handing him back his passport on holiday and telling him to get an earlier flight, go home and vacate the house because she didn't want to be married to a moron more. Thirty years later they are still married and he is still teetotal. Take from that what you will

How old is your DH ?

Catering is notoriously hard working and hard drinking the shift pattern excludes normal friendships because they are working when everyone else isn't hence the drinking at shift end

It may be time for a career change or AA if he has a problem with alcohol

Nice to see some happy ending corgito

Well he called me earlier to ask if I was ok. I just replied Yes.
(he slept on the sofa and we didn't see each other in the morning as he leaves early)
He than wanted to make sure that I knew he is on a double shift today so will be home late. Maybe he doesn't want me to think he gone to the pub.
I will try and be asleep when he comes. I don't want to talk.
He has my rings. I told him yesterday: no more talking, action!

Let's see.

He is 33. I am older and wiser.

I would certainly concur with Cogito here, particularly her first two sentences.

Re this comment:-
"I am always there for her and I am the one organising everything in general. I am the one doing all the thinking.
Am I wrong for wanting to save a family for her until all the options are finished?"

You probably are and also learnt to become super responsible from seeing such alcoholism when growing up and have still a heightened sense of managing crises also as a result. You're constantly fire-fighting even today.

Is what you are doing really saving a family for her?. You cannot save a family single handed and this is not an ideal family life for her to be witness to. She may well be loved by her Dad but he loves alcohol more and alcohol is truly a cruel mistress. It destroys lives and alcoholism is truly a family disease. It does not just affect the alcoholic.

You have a choice re this man; she does not.

Do not forget either that he may well go onto lose absolutely everything (not least of all his DD, you and his job) and he could still choose to go onto drink afterwards. You are NOT responsible for him and his accompanying alcoholism even though you think you are. I would also read up on co-dependency within relationships also.

Mind you many times I thought to myself how easier and straight forward it would be if he just had an OW.
Someone all can see and know is there.

I bet all of his colleagues minimise the drinking the same way he does and if we spoke openly to his family about this, they will probably minimise too. They absolutely know the way I feel but they do not get involved. However if they were asked I think they would say I am over reacting and being uptight.

We went on holidays to my family country and as you can imagine I was all the time anxious about drinking. Obviously for every single one of them I was uptight and controlling. Does not help that my brother has a drinking problem too.

People just don't understand.

So he came a bit earlier last night.
Said hello and that is it.
After a few minutes I went to talk to him and he was very serious.
I wanted to know if he brought some paperwork that we need from his workplace and after that sorted I asked if he wanted to talk about anything.
He said he needed some space and had a lot to think and didn't really wanted to say anything but I could talk if I wanted, he would listen.
So I firstly apologised for my stress and for disrespecting him during the argument on Monday (he asked for space during the argument but I couldn't stop and went on and on and on and was disrespectful too) and after apologising I started repeating again everything about his drinking and blahblahblah.
He said he had a very busy and hard day at work and needed to relax. Also he had a lot to think about and wasn't in denial about his drinking. He is fully aware it is far from ideal.
However he had a lot to think about and was not ready to talk and needed space.
So I gave him space and he slept on the sofa again.
He didn't drink at home last night.

It never happened before, he is always anxious to make up too quickly, with lots of justifications and apologies and keen to bury the issues under the carpet.

Now I see a change, which is good.
Just anxious to see what happens next.