Humiliated, lied to, but I love him! (Jezza related, sorry)

[JonSnowKnowsNothing]

Yes I know Jeremy Kyle is a horrible man who exploits people for quick audience yuks, but I just wondered about this as it's a quite a common theme - and I'm sure not just on the Jez show.

Essentially, an attractive, pleasant 18 year old woman was on this morning, having received messages on FB from women claiming to be sleeping with her DP of a year. One was pregnant. The woman on the show was distraught; her mother angry.

The chap came out and he was predictably vile. Inarticulate, unattractive, mono syllabic. She was way out of his league. He swore on his son's life he'd pass the lie detector test and predictably failed. "It was only once!" He claimed. Now I know the lie detector is far from an exact science, but every pore of this man suggested deceit.

The mum was doing her best to protect her daughter but the woman kept pushing her away and saying "stop it mum, I love him." She decided she wanted to stay with him.

So, point of this rant was - what the hell is going wrong if attractive, nice women see men like this as good catches. And that cheating is fine because I Love Him. Is society teaching us that Keeping a Man is more important than keeping your self respect? Just wondering if anyone else saw it, or had any thoughts...

(Oh yes, and of course when the woman said through tears she wanted to stay with him, Jezza became FOUL to her.)

Hmm I sound like I've taken this far too seriously!

18 is young, but old enough to know better than to shackle herself to a loser. I can only think there may be self-esteem issues, but that won't be her fault, it will be due to her upbringing. Its a sad story, really

Generally though yes, I do feel society teaches that a woman keeping a man is more important than her self respect. MN is an example in point. 9 times out of 10, if a man is treating his DW in a really shitty way, verbally abusive or giving her the silent treatment & she's really upset so posts on here..it truly shocks me how quickly people will say "he must be mentally ill". Just like that - there's been no diagnosis, he's behaving shittily towards his DW (but, of course - nicely behaved with everyone else) and he's given a cop out. With the woman being advised to do this or that to 'help' him - which I read as 'appease him'

Im not talking about the extreme posts..and I do know there are enough good people who will see through the 'smokescreen', thankfully..still the number who jump in to defend the man does shock me. I suppose it does stem from the 'I can't go it alone/what would I do or be without him/what about the DCs mentality...but its the society we live in. Some like to say 'fgs its not the 1950s' but given what women still put up with, it may as well be.

I saw it and I thought

Wow! Low self esteem is the source of so much shit - she mentioned she was sexually abused earlier in her life too. I wish I had more self esteem when I was younger so I hadn't made shit decisions but I've never had it. I have no clue why!

Often it's attachment behaviour IME. people with insecure attachment styles cannot meet their own emotional needs so latch on to a partner to do it. They also play out patterns of abandonment and hurt from childhood with their adult partners and often the thought of being left is intolerably painful so they do whatever they can to avoid it. It's not even about the knob who they have attached to, he's a cypher for their own emotional difficulties (obviously this can apply to all genders).
Teenage girls I have worked with will 'fall in love' extremely quickly and they are falling in love with the way they feel when another person tells them they are special and wanted. This causes an extremely strong and loyal bond to form on their part, thereby allowing the scrote to treat them extremely badly with no comeback 'because she loves him'. I'm not saying this dismissively or to be critical, but just to explain. This process is also what leads to women 'choosing' abusive men over their children. They don't mean to, but the relationship dynamic meets a need that their children don't so on an unconscious level they can't bear to give it up.
I have seen plenty of teenage boys develop instant and unhealthy attachments too, but with them it tends to manifest in possessive and controlling behaviour which also stems from fear of being abandoned.
Attachment issues are a huge problem for people trying to maintain healthy adult relationships.

That's a really interesting post Ehric.

Secure attachment requires an attentive and responsive caregiver in the early months and years, and I worry that we are storing up a whole load of trouble for ourselves with the universal and portable distraction of the internet/social media world. Just looking around at mums/parents and babies out and about, it's rare to see a parent giving their baby more attention than their smartphone. We'll be reading a lot more about attachment disorders over the next few years, I'm sure.

At 18 your young and in love. You want to believe they can change I did. The only reason I stayed with my ex (even with the abuse) is because I was scared to be a new single mum

If you do not let your child learn that bit of independence and also be mean when choices do not fit their own needs, then this is what happens. An "attachment" relationship which is half replacing a parental relationship, and a half "I need this for my safety" kind of relationship. Her self esteem does not exist basically. At 16-21, most relationships are "puppy love" at that time. A mixture of infatuation with lust, and lack of life experience. I would advocate that for girls growing up at that age to have more female friends to gain a better understanding of "what is good" or "what is appropiate".

Looking back at my own life, I think I was lucky as I had people who did teach me things and on how to look after myself, and that was ongoing. (Actually, maybe too much in actual fact, because I am still single !)

I think a lot of women would look back at their teenage selfs and shudder at how 'oh but I love him' and pathetically pandering they were, I think a as sad as it is, it's experience that teachers women to take no prisoners in relationships,

*teaches

She may find it hard to cope as a single mum, and at 18 her options as regards bfs will be limited by the fact she has a kid.

Those 2 factors tend to lead to a decrease of standards & a putting up with anything.

In my view, unless you're in stable ltr, a child at 18 is a mistake. So the guy is actually mistake number 2 (or 3) depending on who is the father of her child.

some of the posters need to be careful re : the thinly veiled snarky comments re: teen mothers, I was a teen mother (19)

I does not mean I am some pathetic pandering loon who would tolerate anything, and many other women . you only have to to go on the rel, boards to see childless, career women who are even more lost and don't have the same excuse,

and its unplanned pregnancy, not 'a mistake' ,
You don't see people in the Preg section, asking 30+ plus pregnant women who have unplanned babies being asked 'keeping your mistake then? ...doesn't take much for the snobbery to surface does it?

PP... the whole reason there's a thread is that these people have volunteered to wash their dysfunctional laundry on national television. You have to forgive us if we then extrapolate a little and then attach some stereotypical views and prejudices to what type of person that makes them.

I don't really, doesn't make it ok if I was carelessly making sexist, racist . ageist etc remarks I don't it would be so easily forgiven,

Although apologies I was rather brusk, I've just had to deal with this ignorant shit a long time along with many other women.

OK then... taking ignorance of the equation ... why do you think a pleasant 18yo with a baby would want to stand by a vile monosyllabic man (who isn't the father of her child) and who is clearly screwing around?

Oh god I wasted years with a complete waster who I was too good for And Just Couldn't See it til I'd had a baby with him

Worse he was not even that into me. But

Low self esteem is what it is and I for one make sure every day my dd knows exactly how clever and beautiful she is so she doesn't make the mistakes I did (no one did that for me)

She obviously has an ingrained feeling that having a boyfriend , any boyfriend is better than being alone, Ehrics post is very good on the attachment part of it,

but she could very easily be 30 odd and childless and still be as desperate and low in self esteem like I said earlier.

I am not being snarky, brighteyed, nor did I 'thinly veil' anything: I stated clearly my personal opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with me, nor am I judging you.

Having a baby as a teenager is very tough, as you know better than I.
It makes access to tertiary education and a career harder, limits bf options by narrowing choice. I'd much rather start off in the world of work or uni with no baby in tow.

There are numerous threads on here from women putting up with lousy men because they feel they can't cope with their kids on their own, or think they won't get better. It's not a stereotype unfortunately, but a practical reality for some women.

'Low self esteem' is bandied about so much as a term as a reason that women put up with complete shit from men that it sounds almost glib, but it can be so deeply ingrained that I can absolutely see how some women, particularly a teenage girl, could be caught up in the 'he's an arsehole, but I love him' trap.

Watching Jezza (which I try not to, as it depresses me) always reminds me of the girls I grew up with and, to a lesser but still real extent, my younger self. The 'guests' are almost always poor and uneducated, mostly from shitty backgrounds themselves. The lack of self worth has been handed down like a bloody heirloom from generation to generation.

The area I grew up in (inner London and, in the 80s, piss poor) was teeming with girls (and men) like the JK guests you describe. Boys and men treated women with little respect; girls and women put up with it, mostly had kids young like their mothers before them, and were desperate to cling on to any relationship they could find because (like having kids) what else was there to do? Where else was their self worth and sense of identity coming from? They didnt go to college or uni, most of the women didnt work or worked in shit low paid jobs. Nobody had any real interests, hobbies, skills. Their world was their estate, their identity was as girlfriend/mum and their self worth came from having a bloke.

It was fucking depressing.

I went to a wedding a couple of years ago, of a women I had grown up with. All the 'old faces' were there. Most with the same shit blokes that treated them like crap at 16, although now they were 35 or 40, ground down by life and in even worse situations. Right where their blokes liked having them. There was one woman I was talking to and when she said she had split up with her ex (horrible abusive twat) but was thinking about getting back with him, she said those EXACT words....at 36 years of age...'The thing is, I love him'

Like I said - depressing.

I grew up with a mother who is absolutely desperate not to be single, and who sees her life as completely crap and pointless if she doesn't have a boyfriend. For most of my younger years I was in and out of relationships, terrified of being lonely and ending up alone. It's only now that I'm 27 and separated from my husband that I have learnt to be happy on my own.

Girls need to be taught that 'love' isn't any sort of excuse for anything.

I love cigarettes, but I don't smoke because if I do, it will have a terrible effect on my health
I love gin, but I drink very little because of the above
I love lazing about at home with MN and a book, but I don't do it all the time because I have a house to run and a job to go to.

I love my DH so, so much. But if he cheated on me, abused me, and made me miserable, then I would leave him.

SquallyShowers I know exactly what you mean. I have relatives who live in an area which sounds very similar. Women who have been kicked around all their lives by their partners, who have never worked and who have nothing in their lives but their children, feeling smug and relieved at the fact they 'have a man'. On one occasion a friend of my mother's came back for a visit: she'd gone to a very good university, was incredibly intelligent, talented, beautiful, at the top of her game professionally, had traveled the world. However she was viewed with pity because she 'hadn't got a fella' and 'men don't like that'.