Not getting on with DH, we row all the time, any advice? :(

[emeraldgirl1]

I should preface this by saying that we have been together 18 years and have always had a fantastic - though fiery - relationship. We are both (especially me) quick-tempered and strong-willed and we have always quarrelled/bickered/argued a lot. However we also have an incredible closeness, we are each others soulmates, there is nobody else we are happier spending time with etc. We make each other laugh (or used to), we enjoy the same things, we never stop talking to each other (or used to...)

WE now have a DD, 14m. Obviously this has changed our dynamic as we simply don't get to spend as much time together as we used to. But these days whenever we DO get time together, we just end up rowing. About ridiculous things. Which always turns into a bigger row about all the things that really annoy us (my parents, his mother, who is working harder etc, that kind of thing!!)

We are due to go out for dinner tonight for only the 2nd time since DD was born and I am dreading it :( In the old days I would have looked forward to it massively but right now I just feel like I can't be bothered. I feel like we will struggle to be pleasant to each other, not have anything nice to say and it will all end in a row on the drive home :(

We are both in the wrong and we are both in the right. He is having a bad time at work and I have a very tight deadline with my work so we are both stressed. I work from home which obviously with a DD means that I do ALL the stuff with her all day (we do have some help from my mum and his mum but not anything like the amount I need to work) and then have to hurtle to my computer every time she naps and also means DH and I never really get an evening together: he gets home, we do bathtime with DD and then he eats dinner alone while I take a sandwich to my desk.

We sleep apart as DD is a bad sleeper and almost always ends up in bed with me at some point.

We are taking on a very large mortgage (within our bounds but still on the large side) and that is obviously a stressor.

Basically we are both stressed and I think we are taking it out on each other. I don't feel he has the slightest understanding of how hard my days are and I guess probably he thinks I don't with him either.

Any advice? I am scared we are going down the road of being contemptous towards each other which I once read was a sign of a failing relationship.

On evenings like we had y'day, EVERYTHING he said got on my nerves, he was supercilious when I accidentally dropped most of DD's dinner on the floor and stood around saying I told you so when he should have been helping me make another option!! He apologised but I couldn't let it go and then was snappy with him for the rest of the evening, we ended up having a big row about his mother (!) and our summer holiday (!!) when we both should have just got an early night and some rest.

I get terrible PMT which doesn't help for almost an entire week each month.

I just feel like we never connect any more. He used to be the centre of my world but now DD is. I feel like I don't know how to navigate the new territory :(

Sorry for the long post, I'd just love any advice, practical or emotional. Thank you!!!!!

I'm always worried when I hear about 'fiery' but loving relationships. Means that antagonism and aggression are an accepted part of the landscape and I don't personally think that is healthy. Disagreement and some conflict is normal enough ... but not chronic bickering/arguing etc.

Given that you related to each other in that way before your relationship had any stresses in it whatsoever, I'd say it was predictable that things would go downhill when real problems were added like a baby, mortgage or job.

You might possibly benefit from relationship counselling but, if you've never had a relationship characterised by kindness and consideration, and if you've never communicated properly. I think it may be very optimistic to expect change.

Cogito thank you!!! Have often read your posts on this site before and you are a great advice giver!!
The thing is, though, it's not actually true to say we've never had a relationship characterised by kindness and consdieration. I've probably done a bad job of illustrating our relationship in my original post tbh. I had terrible depression/anxiety for the first 5 or so years of our relationship and he saw me through the whole thing with nothing BUT kindness and consideration. We have always been extremely considerate of each other - we are honestly best friends - BUT we have always spent a lot (too much?) of time together in the past and got on each others nerves at times.
I miss him, really. I miss all the time we used to spend together, because most of it was lovely, happy, relaxed time - with yes, daily bickering (whose turn it is to do X, etc) and a flaming row about once a month!!! But we have ALWAYS communicated - shared everything - he is my biggest supporter and I am his.
I feel as if that has gone, DD exhausts me (she is VERY full-on) and I feel like I have no kindness or consideration left for DH any more IYSWIM?

And does he feel the same way? Does he miss that closeness? I think you need to go out for that dinner tonight but maybe approach things differently. Rather than hashing up all the present day problems over the table and having a row in the car on the way home, make a point of taking the conversation back to the old days.... reminisce about happier times. If you can both do a little time-travel, bring back some of those old laughs, remember what you like about each other.... then you can bring it up to date by talking about how you can get back there.

That is very very good advice Cogito, thank you.
I would never have thought of it - I just assume we will sit there and niggle because we 'have' to - we don't, of course.
I think I need to make the effort to feel nice for the evening as well - I never seem to get the chance to do my hair, dress up etc any more and I feel crap about it tbh :( I think it would improve my mood for the evening if I make that effort.
Thank you!!!

You're welcome. Do make the effort for your own benefit. Cast off that 'Mummy uniform' and release your inner glamour-puss. :) With 18 year of shared history there must be more than a few 'Do you remember that time when.... ?' conversation starters.

BTW... if DD's poor sleep patterns are a source of friction, might be worth getting some outside help with sleep training.

maybe he doesn't like you have moved DD to the centre of your world and moved him out? fwiw I don't think children should be made the centre of attention in familys, we both love our DD but we love spending time together on our own.

I can understand the working at home/DD being at home and you looking after her etc. I work from home too but I couldn't deal with DD being here all the time, ive got work to do and that comes first during work time - sounds like you need help with DD during the day and you need to concentrate on work and get some free time.

peggy, you are bang on - before DD I too thought that children should not be the only thing in a family, that parents need time to be a couple too... fast forward to actually having DD and my principles have gone out of the window! I mean, I still BELIEVE that but the reality is that it seems very hard at the moment, I am permanently tired and would rather go to bed early if I get a free night, and though we talk about going out on our own it always seems a 'better' idea to stay in and get an early night.

I think we need to make more effort to break this cycle.

I do need more help with DD but its hard to afford it... it seemed a better idea originally to use my evenings/weekends rather than fork out for childcare we would struggle to afford. Also we are not getting as much help from MIL as she promised, she said she would come for at elast half a day a week but we are lucky if she comes for 2 hours and even then it all requires an enormous faff on my part as she panics about everything and needs my help to eg work the bloody TV, find snack for DD etc, so I end up not getting any work done and giving up and just spending time with MIL and DD together.

rant about MIL over

I can relate to a lot of what you say, especially the working from home bit.

The first thing I'll say is that this really is the hardest part and it WILL get easier. (my son is now 4) You do need to make some changes though or your relationship won't survive until it gets to the easier part.

First and foremost, you need some proper childcare if you're going to work, not ad hoc arrangements and working during naps. Even if it's just one day a week. It's probably too late for this but I would actually forego a larger mortgage and spend the money on childcare because you will just drive yourself crazy trying to manage it all.

Can your parents babysit in the evening? I'm struck that you said this was only your second night out in 14 months. As Cogito said, you really need these times for just the two of you, to reconnect. Make a rule not to talk about family or the baby or anything stressful.

It's good you had so many good years, it's that memory bank that will get you through the hard times, but you need time together to share that. Even if you can't go out, do a weekly date night at home, I know it sounds naff but it makes a huge difference.

Is there anything you can do about the sleeping? My DS didn't sleep through reliably until 2, when he finally did it was like a whole new life. We probably could have sorted it earlier tbh.

Basically there are lots of things you can do. Start with going to dinner tonight and really trying to reconnect, see how it goes.

bohemian - thank you - it's too late on the mortgage unfortunately :(

I am trying to get a formal arrangement where my mum comes 2 long mornings a week on specific days, if we can time this right then including DD;'s naps on those days I will get 9am to 2.30pm two days a week all to myself, completely clear to work, I think that will help.

I don't think DH really gets how hard that part of it is and I think quite a lot of my resentment towards him at the moment stems from that tbh.

I actually like the date night idea I think we HAVE to do that!!! A takeaway (so no clearing up) and a DVD at home on the sofa instead of sitting at the kitchen table with me folding socks and bickering - YES!!!!!!!

We need more babysitters - my parents live too far away to do it in the evenings and MIL (have I mentioned how rubbish she is??!) never volunteers and makes a meal of it if asked... I will try to rope in promises from some friends who have offered, I find it hard to accept help but I think I must.

Just feel overwhelmed by work at the moment and a bit sorry for myself that I feel all I ever do is stuff with DD (whom I adore but who is obviously a handful!), house stuff and then dash to the computer whenever she is asleep. I feel humourless and un-interesting and resentful - not good.

Oh gosh, I really do relate so much. Yes, the resentment, the bickering, trying to squeeze in work.

The biggest thing that helped was getting proper childcare. It was life-changing. I would put this at number one on the list. As long as work and home are so mixed up, you can't ever enjoy anything or get away from stress. Childcare puts that boundary in.

Do ask your friends to babysit!! I didn't for the same reason but looking back, I was an idiot. They wouldn't offer if they weren't willing.

And yes, a weekly date night (or something less cringy sounding!) it doesn't have to be a late night or anything fancy, we used to just make something for dinner and have some wine, we would set up the kitchen to look like a cafe with candles and music -- I know it's silly but we used to love to go out and it helped set the mood and take us away from normal stressy homelife.

I know it's hard to make an effort when you're exhausted and stressed but it will really keep you afloat.

Thank you dreaming!
Getting a bit tearful about all this today actually as writing about it has made me really think it through. I think I find it hard to switch off from the stress and yes, home and work are totally blurred.
I also think I feel very boring - and therefore I find DH boring IYSWIM. I don't really feel as if I have anything to talk about except DD :( and moan about stress etc. I can't even remember what we sued to talk for hours about!!! Honestly can't remember!

used not sued!!

Just wanted to agree with the previous poster who suggested that solving the sleep problem and getting mummy and daddy back in the same bed is probably important. It's important for physical closeness but it's also symbolic, if you see what I mean. Controlled crying was hard but divorce would have been harder, and sadder.
I also suggest - as a fellow crap-MIL sufferer - that you leave the house when she's on duty. Just go work in a cafe and tell her you've got a meeting. Your kid will cope and your MIL will step up.
Lots of luck to you!

It's just a rut you've fallen into. If you spend more time together you'll get the conversations back. Happy memories are good to revisit. Or like you said, watch a DVD and just spend time together.

It's so full on this stage, it really will get better.

You need to find some time for yourself too, to try to relax a bit and do something you like, to get out of that boring feeling.

thanks Tropical!
Actually we can probably solve the sleeping-in-the-same bed thing more easily than I've implied... we took to sleeping in separate beds months ago when DD's sleep was truly dire - now she basically sleeps through most nights (the occasional cry out but she can re-settle herself with dummy) BUT she wakes up early (5am) and I get her into bed with me then. TBH now that she is 14m (and big) I probably don't need to worry about an hour's snooze with (heavy) DH on the other side.
I think we have got into the habit of sleeping apart and now find it too difficult to sleep together again :( He likes having more space and I like not having his (appalling) snoring inflicted on me all night...

dreaming - 'rut' is exactly the right word!!!! In the past we would have solved this with having some fun together but I think we have forgotten how.

Can I just say thank you again to everyone for your advice - it is ALL good advice and very helpful when you can't see the wood for the trees.

Thank you so much.

Sorry OP. My DS is 5 1/2 months and I feel humourless and, well a bit of a drudge. I am soooo sick of hearing myself nag OH about housework.
I'm sick of hearing myself moan about my (absolutely gorgeous!) baby.We had a mini summit about it - I was getting so very miserable. I resent having to tell my 34 year old OH that I need him to do the washing up-like he's a teenage boy -but it appears I do!! A few things we've done which have made it easier;

1. If I'm busy-he has to be busy. No sitting playing angry-fucking-birds watching me clean.
2. I'm going out for my breakfast every Saturday morning. Just an hour in the local cafe for me to be alone and read the paper.

In return I'm going to make more of an effort to ask him about his work and not criticise his housework. Just be kinder to each other. We've also got DS into a bedtime routine so we get sometime together in the evening. Can you work on the sleep situation? It really sounds like you've got a massive amount on your plate. I think that if you had a bit more time to yourself you'd find all of the other things easier to cope with. Take up all offers of babysitting. I'm sure that you are not un-interesting. I'm sometimes afraid my sense of humour went the way of my pelvic floor!!

No advice but watching this thread as in similar situation but our girls are 8 and 9!!

Def in a rut and know we need to go out more, talk more, spend more time together but everything gets in the way. My work load has ramped up recently and DH doesn't understand that at all for example.

I think trying to work and do childcare at the same time is enormously stressful and can only result in resentment. It is just so horrid trying all the time to distract a small child, or to get them to sleep, just to snatch a quick work session. It takes the pleasure in achievement from the work and in looking after the child!

Good luck op, hope you manage a nice evening

Humphrey - wow you have put into words EXACTLY how I feel about it. That is it to a tee.

Can you tell it is a subject close to my heart

I am not even doing any paid work! Just trying to run a house and garden with a seven month baby. You are to be congratulated for getting work done at all. If you haven't experienced doing this you will have no clue about the frustration that leaves you feeling wrung out and mentally exhausted. Childcare will make all the difference to you, as would some appreciation of your efforts from your dh.