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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is/was my dad EA?

6 replies

QuestionofDad · 21/05/2014 09:49

NC
I've been mulling this question over for nearly 20 years now! More so since joining MN and reading about EA men in detail.
No real reason but I want to know whether people think my dad was EA to my mum. They divorced 20 years ago and she insisted then, and still now that he psychologically bullied her, is that the same as EA? I can definitely see that some things he did were a bit off, I'd say the actions of an immature unhappy man with some issues rather than EA. But I love my dad very much so would find it hard to accept he's EA tbh. I don't think he is now - and I gather an EA man rarely changes? My mum doesn't talk to me about it as I don't think she'd view that as fair/appropriate/helpful, but I see from the odd fb comment she makes that she still maintains she was in a harmful relationship the whole time they were together (~15 years).
So evidence:
-He can be very charming, is a good public speaker, very persuasive etc
-They got together and decided to have children quickly. Not sure whether he was the driving force or if it was equal.
-He used to play mind games - went to doc with a bad stomach and came back and told her he had terminal stomach cancer 'as a joke', then told her it was a joke and he didn't. Then told her he did really. Then joke. Then did really. He did this 4 or 5 times in an afternoon. Told us (children!) that he couldn't help himself and he was just interested how many times she'd believe the flip flop. She believed each one and got very distressed.
-Once played a 'family game' where he got us to rank the other members of family in order of who was favourite etc. Annonymous ballot which guess who...he collated and declared himself the winner, mum last.
This isn't sounding good so far is it?!

However these are some really stand out episodes of him being a shit.

Evidence against:
None of us 3 children are in abusive relationships. Two DBs married (10 yrs each) to lovely women, both really kind 'obedient' husbands married to bossy but lovely women. I (woman) am in LTR of 9 yrs with a really kind, caring, supportive, feminist, completely non-EA man.
I've never been in a relationship I'd call remotely EA - always gone out with slightly gormless cuties!
In the divorce my dad got awarded custody of us, 3 chidren, 20 yrs ago. Unusual and not likely for an EA man?
Dad is a feminist, I judge this by his actions and treatment of me/other women, not by his own declaration.
I have no memory of anyone every walking on eggshells in childhood, that concept is alien to me
Mum is quite a stubborn woman, always loud in arguments, the intellectual of the two (though dad is too) and always held her ground in a row. Never gave in to dad's views.
Mum left dad for a man who is much closer fit of EA, though now he's deceased and she's with someone lovely.
I get the impression my dad's problem was specifically with my mum, they were a bad fit and divorced as soon as they reasonably could.
Mum might have made up/exaggerated things (some DV) in court hearing to ensure she kept our council house and us kids. She didn't succeed.

Thanks for bearing with me this far! Any thoughts? Please don't be too brutal...

OP posts:
NoArmaniNoPunani · 21/05/2014 10:02

I'm surprised you put your dad getting custody of you all as evidence against. What are you basing that on?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 21/05/2014 10:05

Emotional abuse is characterised as a sustained and increasing 'campaign' of psychological bullying designed to create fear and doubt, reducing the confidence of the victim over time and therefore exerting control. A few isolated mind-games, poor-taste jokes and the other things you describe are probably not enough in isolation to constitute emotional abuse.

QuestionofDad · 21/05/2014 10:27

Armani I included that as presumably a court heard lots of evidence which as children (3 teenagers) we weren't aware of, and made their decision based on that.
That said, two of us did write statements (encouraged by dad) that we wanted to live with him. I do think to some extent he brainwashed us to prefer him and think mum wasn't such a good parent. He still makes offhand comments occasionally about how he was the better/dominant parent. Neither of them worked so both were with us full time, and I certainly would say he was my primary and preferred parent. Now I realise how painful this must have been for my mum. But he was better equipped to look after me, mum was prone to depressive bouts and wasn't as much fun. But dad did ~50% of all the tedious stuff too, nappies, getting to sleep etc. Both parents still agree on this so I know he's not rewritten history here.
I'm slightly on the fence about the campaign remark from Cogito. I think it was his intention to assert himself as the top dog in the family.
I also remember he could be intimidating physically, he is ~8 inches taller than mum, and she has very deliberately chosen short men as partners since the divorce.

Is it possible he had shades of EA which he has since lost, or does that sound very unlikely? Or does this sound like an immature man using some manipulation to get his kids as close as possible in an unhappy relationship? I think he also had/has boundary issues and definitely shared inappropriate stuff with us when we were young, stuff mum confided in him about her unhappy childhood, stuff about sex between them (bleurgh). That's the way he's always been, very open with anyone including children.
Apologies for the drip feed, things are coming back to me. Also for the naval gazing - I realise this isn't a useful post and won't help me/anyone else. I'm just interested in it.

OP posts:
NoArmaniNoPunani · 21/05/2014 10:56

You think he brainwashed you to prefer him over your mum yet you don't think he was emotionally abusive? Were your mum's depressive episodes perhaps due to her unhappy marriage?

It definitely comes over in your posts that you prefer your dad over your mum

QuestionofDad · 21/05/2014 10:58

One more drip feed as I meant to include this in the OP.
He always made it clear to mum/everyone that he didn't find her beautiful but was with her for her mind. He used to tell us about his beautiful girlfriends he had when he was younger.
Also my DB (preteen at the time) was DV towards my mum during the divorce. She thinks my dad effectivbely channelled his anger through B'd fists. She might have a point here.
I think my conclusion from writing this all out is that he doesn't hate all women, but to some extent he did hate/despise her and so was vicious and bullying to her. I guess I don't need a label for this, but it certainly makes him stupid for staying with her so long if he clearly didn't love her. A typical 'staying for the sake of the kids' scenario.
They were both so much happier when they split, but on reflection I think it was OK that they stayed together about 10 yrs longer than they should have. The disrupted two family situation was OK once I was in my teens and more independent, and the arguments and unloving family dynamic don't seem to have scarred us. I guess we're very lucky.

OP posts:
QuestionofDad · 21/05/2014 11:00

Armani my mum was depressive before meeting dad.
I did prefer him as a child/teen. Now I think they're pretty even. I think I'm just massively overcompensating for him being a bastard as it's very hard for me to admit to myself he was nasty to her. Not nice to admit your beloved dad was an arsehole.

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