Fertility test dilemma-wwyd?

[Bumblebee85]

Hi :) so I'm a lurker who is now joining in! Starting with a dilemma for you good MN-ers to consider if you will...

Say you are in the fortunate, or maybe unfortunate, position of being able to carry out a semen analysis for your DP, after two years of ttc with nothing, would you?

To add something further into the mix, say it's because you are differing in opinion on having children anyway-he's only happy if it happens naturally, won't consider anything further; as doesn't feel 'need' to reproduce really, but you would want to explore every avenue to try and have a family, before accepting life as just the two of you... So this analysis could open a massive can of worms if bad news, but answer kind of needed to know where you stand?

Or is it better to just accept that wanting/not wanting children 100% is something you just won't be able to compromise on, fertile or infertile, and go your separate ways before potential resentment kicks in from either party in the future. Sometimes, love alone just isn't enough? Or is it?

Wwyd?

(Despite the kind of casual nature of the post, I'm actually massively stressed out about all of this-my own fault, he's always been honest about his feelings towards having (well, probably not having) children and I have not addressed it fully because I wasn't sure whether it was something I definitely wanted until about two years ago. We haven't used contraception since, since he's happy if fate decides for us, but nothing so far :( he has agreed to analysis so we know if it's likely to be something that will mean our differing opinions will affect us massively or if with patience, things will work out and we will have children naturally. Given the length of time so far, I suspect one/both of us has fertility issues that would need working on to conceive, or if dire situation adoption being our only option...but know we won't agree on how to address it).

Thanks everyone :)

Very difficult situation, if having a baby is something you must do by any means then you have to decide if this relationship really is worth it or not. Quite a lot of men in my experiance are not as driven to be a parent as women are. I also notice that men are not in general as keen to adopt and would rather if they have any, have their own.

Friend of mine did her husbands semen analysis at work after a couple years ttc. I found her sobbing into her microscope. :(

They did manage a private adoption 6 years later after exhausting all other options. Her Dh wasnt keen on adopting or "interfering with nature" but went with it for her sake. The idea of a child grew on him as time went on. Their son turns 18 this year and a happier family you couldnt wish to meet

How old is he?

Is it possible he may have had a vasectomy previously?

theoldtrout01876 that's what I'm afraid of happening if it's bad, then everyone will know! It's good to hear a positive adoption story through. Sometimes my DP does just need a push to do things-he can't seem to see what he'll enjoy/like etc without actually doing it...that's fine for 'superficial' things like going on holiday to a destination he's convinced he'll hate and then loves, but a gamble if I push him into x number of cycles of ivf, or adopting and he hates being a father :-/

justchecking3 simply having a 'baby' isn't the thing that's important to me, it's being a 'family' with the man I love...you wouldn't find me having a baby as a singleton if I did decide to leave DP and never met anyone else to have a family with, put it that way. So sometimes I wonder why it just being the two of us isn't enough for me... But I feel I will regret at least not really trying to be a family with someone, if I meet the right person (altho preferentially with DP)...

oikopolis I very much doubt the vasectomy thing-he's so against doing anything medical unless absolutely necessary (hence resistance to ivf too) that I couldn't see him ever doing that. Plus he's young (31) and never been married before...but I guess one can never assume.

Thank you for the replies so far :)

Yes definitely... The more facts you know, the better.

What a difficult situation. I think you should both get tested. The sooner you know where you stand, the better

I think you both need to do the tests so you know. I imagine the torture of not knowing will probably be worse than having the facts to help you decide your next steps. Good luck with this - what a hard position to be in x

When we first started TTC DH was very much of the laid back, it will happen if it happens mentality. However it didnt happen. Being a pragmatist he decided that knowing was still part of that laid back approach. Testing didnt mean having to do anything.

A very good friend of mine had exactly this dilemma.

I think if it were me, I'd be thinking about what you'd do with the results of any testing. Would you or he actually do anything different, knowing the results?

If your OH proves to be infertile and you're not, or even if it we're the other way round, and he is adamant that he doesn't want any intervention, would you be able to live with knowing that his choice had effectively denied you your own children? Or would ignorance be a happier standpoint for you? My friend stuck with the ignorance option for a while, because she didn't want to have to consider the alternatives.

On the other hand, knowing what the problem is, if there is one, may make it easier for your OH to imagine a way forward if definite options can be presented. Too many what ifs can make some people shy away from decisions.

Ultimately, my friend and her DH did go ahead with testing, and are both happy with the course they have taken.

flipper934 I know I just can't do the ignorance thing forever, it's making me too anxious... especially when I can just do the test myself (I'm an andrologist so can only look at his side, would have to go through GP to think about getting me tested, hence checking him out first but I obviously will get tested too, esp if all looks ok with him). If there is a problem and it doesn't stir something inside him about having children when it's no longer a 'choice' not to, then I will have to seriously consider if we can have a future together.

I was afraid my post would make me sound like I'm only after him for his sperm though! It's not like that at all... If we were on the same page with it all and considered/tried all the options and it didn't work out, then that's a totally different scenario in my mind and I could accept being childless with him then. Does that sound weird?!

It feels like an impossible situation that I don't want to have to face really, but I think i have to, once I've plucked up the courage to actually do the testing. Can't live a life of regrets.

Thank you so much to you all for taking the time to reply xx

I don't think you should test him without his permission.
I would explain to him that after 2 years, there is a possibility that one or both of you has fertility issues, and that you want him to have a SA. Not as a trigger for intravention - if you know he won't do that - but because if there is no chance, you can't go month after month hoping, when there is little/no chance.

If he won't do that for you, then he doesn't love you. I'm sorry to be so blunt. Having been through poor spleen and the months of trying, I really feel for you. To me, the SA isn't just about a trigger for intervention, it's about not losing your mind now!

Spleen?! Sperm.

Another thought: in some parts of the country, it is still possible to have one or more cycle of IVF on the NHS. In our area, I think the cut off is 38 years old at time of intervention for the woman (my colleague went through this) and it can take a couple of years to get to the top of the waiting list, so it doesn't hurt to start having the investigations sooner rather than later. This may not be relevant for you - you don't say how old you are - but I thought this might be useful.

cabrinha thanks. We've had the 'chat' about our differences and what it means to us both: for me it could be a dealbreaker if he doesn't ever want to try anything more than natural conception (I'm 30 dustbunny and would be eligible for NHS IVF), for him he sympathises in some ways, but says I am more important to him than children and is hurt that he's not more important to me...difference is, he doesn't really feel that need to have children, so he will feel I'm more important! He is obviously very important to me but currently everything is fine for him because we are living the life he's happy with. If that makes sense. Because of the chat, he has agreed we need to do the testing (I would never do it against his will), to sort my head out if nothing else, and appreciates in the first instance, testing him is the easier option.

If only it was easy anyway... Sigh.

It sounds like having kids is really important to you. In your shoes I would definitely want to know.

I don't know if my experience helps but here goes.... Several years ago now, i was about your sge and with my lovely partner. We had been trying for kids 6 months with nothing happening. We are a fertile family and I just knew he had an issue. I pushed for private testing and we discovered my DH has non obstructive azoosperma i.e. zero sperm. This was 6 months before our wedding and the day we moved into our joint home. My DH coped amazingly well and, whilst it was not an easy decision, chose to pursue fertility treatment using donor sperm. We have two beautiful children and feel like any normal family, except particularly grateful and lucky!

At the time of his diagnosis, DH suggested I walk away. I said that provided he was prepared to consider all options that we stick together. (This all sounds cold - I can assure you these were heart wrenching discussions but I'm summarising for the sake of brevity).

Had my DH said pursuing these options wasn't for him I would have walked away, such was my desire to have children.

For me, knowledge is power. You at least know your options. DH and I could have let nature decide and I would now be childless and too old to find anyone else. This was a risk I just could not take although I appreciate everyone is different.

I very much hope your partner doesn't have this condition, but I think it's better if you find out where you stand now.

Very best of luck x

I'm sorry, I assumed when you said you "had the opportunity" that you were going to do it secretly! I was going to advise not wasting your money on home kits, then you said you were an andrologist. I remember the timescales for getting samples under the microscope and wondered how you were going to do that secretly!

I'm glad he's agreed. Having a child is very very important for some people. If you part over it, that's sad. But it's such a big thing - you cannot let the "you don't love me enough" change your decision, it will eat you up and potentially ruin your relationship if this is important to you.

oohdaddypig thank you for sharing your story, I'm so glad everything worked out for you :) that is what I really want for us, to pursue the options together if natural conception is off the cards, but unless a bad diagnosis for one/both of us changes anything for him, it just isn't going to happen that way. I too come from a fertile family, but so does he so who knows what's going on.

caprinha no worries I realise I did make it sound like I was going to do it secretly in the first part of my original post! It is so sad that we could end up parting (I end up in tears just thinking about it) but like you said, such differing opinions would be most likely to ruin the relationship further down the line I feel anyway, it's just too big a deal to compromise on...either way, he shouldn't let me push him into doing IVF/adoption etc if it turns out that would be the only options for us, if it's not what he wants...I would never forgive myself if we went down that route and he resented me or worse, the children :(

bumble thanks :) I think you make a good point about your partner's own feelings about having kids. And I guess you might not know that until you understand the diagnosis (if there is one to be had). My DH was desperate for children too which made our decision making process easier (although far from easy).

Initially I was concerned about DH resenting any child we had or not feeling the same bond but nothing could be further from the truth and those concerns have been unfounded. My DH is a wonderful father. :)

i think if it so important to you, youd have to leave

Thought I should come back and update this. So I finally plucked up the courage to do the semen analysis for DP... It was not good. Infact, it was the worst it could be-no sperm :(

So if you've read my original post, you'll know embarking on fertility treatment if a there was a problem wasn't the reason for assessing our fertility. The question we set out to answer regarding how likely we are to conceive naturally is definitely answered...but I have no idea where this leaves us as a couple, it seems like even more of an impossible situation now. DP is a bit shocked at the result (understandably, as am I) and has asked what the options are, but whether he could/should go through with tests and possible invasive treatments, if he still can't be sure having kids is for him is debatable...then it's whether I can just accept no kids if not. but given the fact that the decision has ultimately been taken away from him, I need to give him time to think about what it means to him now, if anything.

I kind of wish we hadn't found out and had just accepted our views on the matter were too different, regardless of fertility, and moved on with our lives as individuals. But then I'm glad we know so we can have all the information (I'm currently being tested too) before we make some incredibly difficult decisions. I'm just so upset at the moment though I can't really think straight.

So there it is. Any advice always welcomed!!

Sorry to hear about the results. I think it was definitely the right thing to do to take the tests. Now if you decide to split it will be with all the facts available, which will maybe stop the "what if"s. Also, it is good for him to know this about himself, so that he knows later in life that childlessness is not just a choice he has made.

I would get some counselling, doesn't need to be together but so you can both find out where you are and really where you want to be.

We are currently 2 yrs into ttc and DP also has a 0 sperm count. It is not easy, my DP is 100% committed to us having a baby one way or another. He has had two operations and millions of tests. We are waiting for the results (tomorrow ahhhhh) of his testicular biopsy to find out if there are any live sperm so we can start ivf. Honestly you need to be on the same page and wanting the same thing to go through all this stress together.

Talking and finding out what you both really want is the most important thing right now. PM me if you have any questions. I wish you so much luck, I really do.

Oh bumblebee, I'm so sorry you got this result. My husband has non obstructive azoospermia (NOA). After lots of invasive tests (including genetic testing and a tese) we decided to go down the donor sperm route. Although this has worked out very well for us (we have 3 children and I don't think we could have been happier if they had been genetically 'ours'), it is obviously not a route you can go down without a lot of soul searching and both partners being very keen and in agreement how they are going to deal with this issue re children (telling etc).
From memory, quite a high percentage of people with azoospermia are still able to biologically father a child (either by surgical removal of a blockage (obstructive azoospermia) or surgical retrieval of sperm followed by Icsi (a form of IVF where the sperm has it's tail chopped off and is then injected directly into the egg)). So if your DP does change his mind re fertility treatment you may still be able to do something without the use of a donor. Sadly (I'm not trying to be negative as I really feel for you but assume you don't want me to sugarcoat it) you will need to bear in mind this is not run of the mill fertility treatment, it is very expensive and the surgery for DP may not be pleasant. My DH was such a physical and emotional mess following his TESE that I wanted to decide then and there to give up on the idea of kids - nothing could have been worth putting him through such pain. I also note that if your DP has NOA he is very unlikely to get treatment on the NHS. If you do consider you may use fertility treatment I would try at least doing an initial consultation at a good private clinic to help you decide (again you need to check they are experts in azoospermia). Cost is approx £100 (probably a bit more now) and they can run you through the what ifs/chances and refer you for counselling if you desire. Hundred hugs.

Oh thank you so much for sharing your stories (and opinions/advice) I am truly grateful and it really does help.

I've been feeling like such a bad person for still considering leaving-I would be gutted if DP left me in the situation reversed, but then I have to keep reminding myself why we tested in the first place and that DP isn't feeling the same dispair as me...disappointment in having the choice taken away from him maybe, but not despair at not probably not being able to have children. At the moment anyway, still early days after diagnosis.

We're already booked in for relationship counselling to try and steer our communications in the right directions and determine what we both really feel, but infertility counselling probably also worth seeking.

kittencamile I will be thinking of you both tomorrow for your DP's result...I really hope it's a good one.

Everyone else, again thank you-it's very comforting to know others understand where I'm coming from, even if DP doesn't.