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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Unstable stbxh wants to see our 21 month old but I don't think he's in a good state

46 replies

Needclearhead · 13/05/2014 21:50

Going through a divorce and we haven't agreed contact arrangements. So, far its been on an adhoc basis and normally arranged on the Wed before the weekend, xh normally sees our son in the day time (has had him once for a sleep over). Just been away for 3 weeks, arrived back to UK on Saturday morning. Xh knew when we were back & I also text messaged saying we were back. He suffers from depression, bipolar, being treated for cancer (which I believe is going okay), and was just made redundant. I moved out last November, as he got physical with me, needed to get out of there and to date has not paid me anything. I work full time and being paying for childcare, babysitters, etc and every other expense under the sun. I earn a decent salary and he was on double. He called Sunday evening saying he'd been in bed all day (the medication does make him drowsy, but not to the extent where he would be in bed all day) was really ill, not being eating, saying he wasn't well. He said he has no income (I know he got min 8 month pay out) or savings. Then launched into saying I need to come back to him, etc. Monday night he called again, saying he had been in bed all day and could kill himself. He previously saw a renowned psychiatrist but he is no longer able to see this dr as it was covered by private held he had with work, but as he's being made redundant, no more private health. I just encoraged him to seek help and he got angry saying I dont care about him. He called again this evening, saying he'd been in bed, didn't know what day it was, had not eaten, couldnt remember when he had last eaten, said he was ill and depressed. He then asked when he was going to see our son. I then said, that as he was ill, been in bed for the last few days (and probably more than that), hadn't eaten that first he needed to look after himself and I didn't think he was in a state to look after our son. Our son demands an enormous amount of attention and needs a lot of energy which just doesnt have. I explained that if the nursery worker or the child minder felt like he did, that he wouldn't want them looking after our son. This did not go down well and he launched into saying that I would be hearing from his solicitor and see me in the family court. I geniunely don't believe he's in any state to look after our son and dont want to be obstructive, just want to make sure our son is in good care. I can just see this getting very messy. Any tips, advice? What do you think? To add to this, I meant to be going away next month, long weekend and he'd agreed to look after our son, but I don't think he'll be able to, and I don't have family to help me out. Jesus christ, how did it all get so complicated!

OP posts:

cestlavielife · 14/05/2014 12:20

if you have to go away you will need to book a child-minder for the weekend. or take ds with you. it isn't worth the risk and not fair on ds to leave him with a sick parent. where is ex living? is he alone? does he have family? could they supervise?

Original poster

Needclearhead · 14/05/2014 12:22

Without wanting to sound heartless, its not about the cancer. He has been able to work pretty much full, one hours commute, although obviously felt sick a lot of the time due to the medication. The cancer he has is normally successfully treated and so far he's responded to treatment. Its about leaving my son with anyone (and in this instance his father) in such a state.

Athough, I'm begining to think that he is laying it on, how 'ill' he is and how much he is in bed, in order to try and get me back to look after him. He kept asking me if I cared, how much I cared, saying you dont care, dont love me, etc. After listening to him tell me this over phone conversation over three evening (btw before now, we very rarely spoke on the phone, just text or email), then he asked when he could see our son, I just say not until you can look after yourself first. I think he's realised he played it a step too far. You just never know though, he often used to threaten he was going to kill himself to get attention. If he says that again, I call the police. GP's not around in the evening. He went from talking in this low 'sick' voice, to suddenly getting the bounce back in his voice when I said he's not well enough to look after our son.

In regards to contact, I work full time myself (he's not working) and I'm certainly not going to 'babysit' him, whilst he plays with our son on the weekend in the park. He can arrange and pay for a professional himself.

OP posts:

rb32 · 14/05/2014 12:26

Sanity -

Post no 2. "I would inform him you are not stopping contact but suspending it till he is well."

Post no. 3. Keep a log of his unstable, unreasonable behaviour and refuse all contact for the time being.

Also, getting cancer really is one of the worse things that can happen to a person!

rb32 · 14/05/2014 12:32

Need - it does sound a bit heartless to me, and I'd be giving him the benefit of the doubt. Just because he's been coping with his treatment before doesn't mean he still is.

He suddenly got the bounce back in his voice? Not suprised....he wants to see his son and now to try to convice you he's a happy well person to do this!

starlight1234 · 14/05/2014 12:36

RB. you seem to not looking at the MH issues.

My best mate has bipolar and when she is not well I would not leave my DS unsupervised with her.

I have lived with an Ex with MH issues.

I have also nursed my mother through breast cancer and she is still alive 20 years later.

I do think though OP it sounds llke he is trying to play you. I would report any threats to kill himself and these will end up documented. If he needs the support he will get it from the professionals and if not his games are documented.

Matildathecat · 14/05/2014 12:37

need how about suggesting a bit of Skype contact until ex is more stable? If you are planning on taking ds to live abroad it's likely to be a feature anyway.

Hope you can sort something.

weebarra · 14/05/2014 12:43

rb32 - I'm sitting in a hospital bed recovering from a mastectomy. I don't get offended easily but to assume someone with cancer has a good chance of dying fairly soon? FFS.
Sorry for hijacking OP - I think Skype would be a really good idea.

rb32 · 14/05/2014 12:51

starlight - perhaps I am just playing devils advocate a little here...I just can help thinking of this from the other point of view -

"My ex wife, who left me a few months ago won't let me see my son. She says it's because of my mental health issues (which led to the break up, my mistakes getting violent etc) and because I'm too ill to do much because of my cancer treatment. I'm in a pretty bad way and have just lost my job and my son is the only light in my life."

I know it's not about him or her really, it's about thier son. Who, ultimatly, should be allowed to somehow see his dad. If he's not able to make this happen then...well I don't know.

Need - I hope you manage to sort this out I really do.

CustardFromATin · 14/05/2014 12:51

Skype sounds sensible. As pp said, your recordings of calls or skype will not be admissible in court, though I believe they might be if you can show that he consented to recording (someone with more expertise may be able to comment here!)

What you can do, though, is really rigorously document the key points at the end of each call or contact - maybe even email them to yourself, it'll help you keep a simple record and also show that you did this over a decent time period and didn't just make it all up over an angry afternoon.

He needs to see a doctor and you REALLY need to see a good solicitor, who will be able to help. My sister left it too long and it made for much more challenge at the end.

rb32 · 14/05/2014 12:52

weebarra - sorry to have offended you.

SanityClause · 14/05/2014 12:52

All the best for a speedy recovery, weebarra.

CustardFromATin · 14/05/2014 12:58

Rb32 we really have all seen your point and people are not suggesting that this poor man should never see his child - but we ARE suggesting that a child should not be around a suicidal, abusive, heavily medicated husband with mental issues and a serious medical condition. And the wife he hurt has no business being there at all, whatever state he is in.

The father has a definite right to see the child he loves, but so does the OP have the right not to risk being abused, and most importantly the child has the right to safety and perhaps to being able to keep a far more positive view of his father, once he is in a state to focus on being a dad.

Plenty of us on here have had cancer, it is by no means necessarily a death sentence or even necessarily a reason to stop working - there are a lot of cancers out there. At what point does this become a get out of jail free card?
Good luck OP

cestlavielife · 14/05/2014 13:07

well yes if he says to you "I am going to kill myself" you get off phone to him and call police. 999. they send round police/ambulance.

if he tells them he is fine you know he is making it up/covering etc. .
if he tells them yes he feels bad etc they treat him.

son should see him yes but it needs to be guaranteed safe. sending your child to be looked after by someone who wants to kill themselves is not "safe". cancer here is irrelevant tot his issue - tho if he feeling very sick nausea etc again he needs a another adult to support him seeing his son. up to him to come up with that adult.

aylesburyduck · 14/05/2014 13:21

rb32...seconding what custard said.

I have been on the receiving end of people who "play" on the fact that they have cancer, and they have used it order to manipulate and control.

OP's husband has got a number of issues, one of which is his history of abuse towards OP. That in itself, for me, would be a trigger to ensure that contact is safe for dc and op.

In this context the fact that her husband has cancer is somewhat irrelevant - The relevant facts are that he is unable to care for himself let alone a child, and OP needs to feel that contact will be safe and secure for them all.

(I am not saying cancer is irrelevant, just that it shouldn't be a "trump card" and I hope that it isn't being used as such here.)

aylesburyduck · 14/05/2014 13:22

x-post with cestlavie!

arsenaltilidie · 14/05/2014 14:17

How about a contact centre?

The ex seems to be in a shit situation.
Cancer, mental health and now redundancy; probably all connected to another.

If the situations where reversed and the OP had cancer, redundancy and mental health; children being taken away, no one would be encouraging the the DH to cut off contact.

You see when women have problems, they is support EVERYWHERE whereas when a man gets into a situation he is expected to sort himself out.

cestlavielife · 14/05/2014 14:22

the op has said "I moved out last November, as he got physical with me,"

whether that was down to cancer, mental health or just plain abuse it doesn't matter - this is not a man who is safe to be around..

he is an adult is up to him to get his support.

and actually whoever much support a woman gets they still have to sort it out themselves as it can only come from within. so woman or man ultimately you have to go out there and get that support AND use it wisely. final decisions are down to you as an individual.

so he is "all alone"? no - he can go to his gp, get counselling, see his macmillan nurse etc. it is not the op's fault...

cestlavielife · 14/05/2014 14:23

and in fact a good contact centre could support him to see his child.
his cancer support system macmillan nurse etc - could support him to see his child.
his gp - could seek support from local services sure start mens groups, dads groups to help him see his child...but he has to put himself out there and ask for that help.

cestlavielife · 14/05/2014 14:25

and actually yes if woman is being abusive and physical to a man then they would be told to stay away. or to seek support. if their mh is so bad they cant take care of child they would be advised to get support and help. if they say they want to kill themselves - they told "stop, call Samaritans, seek help"

SolidGoldBrass · 14/05/2014 14:27

He was abusive to the OP, so it's reasonable that she wants as little to do with him as possible. An arsehole with cancer is still an arsehole and the OP needs to put herself and DC first.

Itsfab · 14/05/2014 14:38

All you need to consider is - would my child be safe, cared for, happy, loved and fed while with his father. If you can't say a definite yes with what you know of your STBEH then I can't see that you would be criticised for not having him see his father at the moment. The father has no rights, just responsibilities. The child has all the rights.

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