Terrible relationship with my mum

[princesspeach84]

I KNOW we are supposed to love our family - especially our mothers - but I don't. I feel incredibly guilty about that, I wouldn't dare to even say it out loud, but it's true.

I grew up in a Christian home. It's only over the last few years that I've seen it as it really was, it was more like a cult. My parents wouldn't take me to the cinema. I wasn't allowed to go to discos. I had to sit in church listening to a man telling us that women shouldn't wear makeup or wear trousers (or wear anything for that matter that wasn't up to your neck or covering your knees!). Women were the lesser sex. I grew up thinking that all I could do was be a wife and a mother - basically a housewife. I will always regret this lack of ambition and wish I'd pursued a career. I couldn't marry anyone who wasn't a Christian, so when I started seeing a boy at 15 who wasn't a Christian, I felt so much pressure to break it off that I did. This led to years of heartache for me. I know you're probably thinking that 15 is too young to be in love but I was. 9 years later we got back together and we were married the next year. I will always regret giving in to the pressure and listening to other people's opinions.

I left the church when I was about 23. To cut a long story short, my mum has always been nosey and meddling. She wanted to know why I'd left, she made me feel like something bad was going to happen to me because of what I'd done. I believe now after counselling that the depression I've suffered from since I was a teenager was due to my upbringing and the atmosphere there. She could never speak to me in a soft voice. I never had hugs off my mum. I remember being about 18 and seeing a friend hug her mum and I thought to myself 'WTF happened just then?'. The whole thing was so alien to me. She never spoke to me in a tone that you would use with a friend. Things improved slightly when I moved out.

Fast forward to today, things have gotten so bad. When she talks to me, she can't even look me in the eye. I'll make her a cup of tea and put it next to her and she will ever so slightly move her lips to say 'ta' but I can't hear it. If I mention something that's bothering me like a recurring ear infection, she just says hmm. Last week I excitedly told her I had a job interview, her face dropped and she turned totally miserable. I was so shocked by her reaction I just stopped talking about it. She didn't ask any further questions. Yet this is the nosiest person I know. After I'd had my interview, she texts me asking if I was having an interview sometime this week. She is just so toxic towards me. I feel smothered by her, as if she had a rubbish life so wants me to have things just as hard as she did.

I am so over her and her attitude. I don't know what to do because of my children. If I didn't have children, I would stay away because of the effect she has on me. But then on the other hand I tell myself I'm being too harsh. Maybe she's the kind of person who can provide practical help (eg wash my clothes when our WM broke) but is not emotionally available and maybe that's not her fault? I do worry about my children being around her too, but always thought maybe they'd help her be more positive towards me.

I see my MIL and SIL and they have the perfect mother/daughter relationship which I have always longed for, it's so sad.

I just don't know what to do. Anyone else have a mother who seems incapable of showing emotion? I've never known/heard of anyone like her before.

My mother shows emotion but only to further her own self interest. She is totally self absorbed and will do whatever it takes to make herself the victim and ensure everyone feels very sorry for her. For example, the other day she bought up an event that happened at my wedding, where I overheard her point out my aunt to my godmother and say, 'this woman is very insincere'. I just said to her at the time that I didn't think that was a very fair introduction. So fast forward 18 months pregnant and she tell me that my godmother thought I was myself very insincere for making that comment. I said that I could believe it and would ask her myself. She responded that if I did she would do far worse to me than I could ever do to her. And then slammed the phone down. I am 27 weeks pregnant btw! She then promptly called my godmother and told her how devestated she was by my behaviour! So devestated that there has been silence from her for 3 days. This is normal behaviour for her and she has gone for months without contact having treated me badly. This emotional abuse has gone on for years. She t

So sad but not uncommon - go to the stately homes thread. Plenty of similar posts. Xx

Continued... She told me when I was 12 that "s
We just irritate each other, some people just have a personality clash'. I assured her I did not find her irritating - one of many rejections from my primary caregiver. I tried to be the perfect child to make up for being clearly defective to her but she would always manage to upset me. I feel that to everyone else she gives the impression of being a good mother but is all talk and no living action there at all. It has taken its toll on me over the years and taken me a long time to come terms with her emotional abuse. Since being with my husband I finally feel free to release myself from her. And now I am pregnant I am also aware that I must protect my own emotional security and that of my developing. Just because someone gave birth to you does not make them emotionally fit to be a parent. Sad but true. I would do whatever is best for your own well being- there is no good hanging on to being who are nothing but a negative influence on your life.

Thank you for your reply. Some of the things you said sound just like my mum. She doesn't show love towards me, yet she loves to be dramatic. I say dramatic because I feel like it's for show. She uses events, such as an anniversary of my grandfather's death, to 'show emotion'. She builds herself up to the anniversary, then tells me how she was up all night thinking about it, wondering how other people would be, going on and on about how she must visit the grave etc etc. Yet I see no emotion in her, no sincerity. I just see someone who craves attention. She spent the whole time I was with her talking about it during every spare minute. If anyone phoned she would tell them how she was up all night, couldn't sleep etc.

I moved away for a while and she used that to make me feel guilty for leaving her. She got very upset to the point that we had a massive argument, me telling her to let me live my own life. She was obviously milking it around other people because I then had a huge fight with my brother who accused me of being horrible to my mum, that I take everything for granted... I told him some of the things my mum said to me to try to defend myself and he called me a liar. I told him to ask her about it and she denied saying those things. When questioned by me, she said she didn't remember but after much pushing from me, she admitted it. I asked her to tell my brother the truth (because I really did nothing wrong, he accused me of things that just weren't true, himself knowing nothing about the situation, only seeing my mum terribly upset) and she said it was between me and my brother to sort out, and nothing to do with her! I haven't spoken to my brother for 2 years and she is fine with this. She is too scared to put things right because she's terrified of losing him because 'he's always been so kind' to her and 'looked out' for her. She doesn't want to upset things with him and his partner so prefers to leave her own son and daughter estranged. I could never ever let my children have a fight like that over me, and act the way she has. It's unforgivable.

You cut her out and you and your own family go on to live a happy life without her particular brand of poison.

It worked for me.

FolkGirl, how did you do that? I just don't feel like I could. She has a way of making me feel sorry for her. She would make my life hell if I tried to cut her out. I moved away and she used the whole 'my only daughter's left me, I'm so heartbroken, how could she do this to me?' card with everyone, turning people against me. I eventually decided to return to the UK, a decision I am now regretting in some ways. I hate the way that I feel like I owe her just because she's my mum, despite the way she's treated me.

You have to stop caring what other people think. Which is just as hard as it sounds. So what if people think you're a terrible daughter? You know different. And if people believe her drivel, then they're not much good to you are they?
I am low contact with my mum and I know I'm painted in her family as the "difficult daughter." It used to bother me, but now it doesn't because the one aunt that I love sent me a subtle message that she knows it's bullshit. The rest either couldn't give a shit about the whole thing (and just listen to my mother out of a sense of duty) or are just as pathetic as my mother is and therefore are not worth my time anyway.

You're right. I've cared too much about people believing lies about me. I guess in a way I also wonder sometimes if it's me with the problem, not her. That I should be forgiving and able to accept her as she is. But on the other hand, I know that's not true. sigh

Low contact - that sounds good to me!

I think low contact can be a good idea, and it works for a lot of people. But it can also (in my experience) actually make you feel worse. The thing is, those of us with difficult mothers often crave their approval in an internalised way. So even if we don't contact them, we hear that voice of disapproval, because it's in our own head, PLUS we have the guilt of no contact.

I think the key is to getting rid of that voice in your head. I went to CBT for it for ages, and it really was worth every penny. Don't get me wrong, it still hurts, but it doesn't have that ability to crush your soul and make you feel worthless.

Like you, I also have a difficult relationship with my sibling, in my case a sister who denies a lot of the abuse that went on and paints me as the 'evil' in the family (classic scapegoating - she still lives with my Mum so she has to believe an alternative narrative). I have not yet found a way of dealing with this, and I am finding it much harder.

Hi princesspeach84,

re your comment:-
"If I didn't have children, I would stay away because of the effect she has on me".

It is precisely because you do have children now that you should stay the hell away from her; she will do to them what she did to you. Some grandparents really should not be allowed access to their grandchildren and your mother is a case in point. She was neither a good parent and will be and is a rubbish grandparent to your children. Exposing them to such further manipulation from their grandmother is a mistake that will come back to haunt you if you allow them to continue any sort of relationship with her.

Your mother also reads like a narcissist in terms of personality (and I would read up on NPD to see if any of that fits in with what you already know); they are also without apparent emotion or empathy and crave attention (particularly from those whom they see as authority figures).

A percentage of the general population is dysfunctional and/or abusive. That percentage, like everyone else, has children. Then those children grow and have children of their own. The not-so-loving grandparents expect to have a relationship with their grandchildren. The only problem is, they’re not good grandparents.

Many adult children of toxic parents feel torn between their parents’ (and society’s) expectation that grandparents will have access to their grandkids, and their own unfortunate first hand knowledge that their parents are emotionally/physically/sexually abusive, or just plain too difficult to have any kind of healthy relationship with.

The children’s parents may allow the grandparents to begin a relationship with their children, hoping that things will be different this time, that their parents have really changed, and that their children will be emotionally and physically safer than they themselves were.

Unfortunately, this is rarely the case, because most abusive people have mental disorders of one kind or another, and many of these disorders are lifelong and not highly treatable. (Others are lifelong and treatable; however, many people never seek the necessary help.)

The well-intentioned parent ends up feeling mortified for having done more harm than good by hoping things would somehow be different — instead of having a child who simply never knew their grandparents and who was never mistreated, they have an abused child who is now also being torn apart by the grief involved in having to sever a lifelong relationship with the unhealthy people they are very attached to.

I would also suggest you look at and post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

You sound completely immersed in what is known as FOG with regards to your mother; fear, obligation, guilt. This needs dealing with now before it further consumes you.

The Christian church you were coerced into going to does not actually sound very Christian; it reads more like a fringe type group or cult.

Your mother will never apologise nor accept any responsibility for her actions. She will not change. BTW do you have any clues as to what her own childhood was like; pound to a penny it was pretty much crap as well. Its still not excuse or justification for what she has done to you though.

Is your Dad still in your life now?.

AttilaTheMeerkat - Thanks for your reply.

I understand what you are saying about allowing her to be around my children. This is something that I have thought about a lot and discussed with my husband, but I think, as he comes from what I class as a 'normal' happy family, he thinks I am over analysing my mum's behaviour. And I don't blame him. His family are totally different to mine so it is hard for him to understand the effect she has on me.

However, when I had my first child, I did see a change in her. I saw her emotionally connecting with her, which I have never experienced from her myself. This has led me to believe that it is ME she has the problem with. I don't blame myself though. It is her upbringing and 'Christian' beliefs that have caused her to have major disagreements with me. Also her old fashioned views of women, and what a woman's place is. I stood up to her, questioned her treatment of me (for example, why I had to help her with the housework but my brothers didn't, her reply - they're boys, they wouldn't have done it right), stood up against her old fashioned beliefs, showed her she had no control over me anymore. And for that reason, she feels like she failed with me, because she didn't raise me to be like her.

As for NPD, the symptoms don't sound like my mum. She acts like a martyr, always appears anxious and stressed out cos she is SOOOO busy helping out other people (in reality, she is meddling and involves herself in other people's business that she doesn't need to). I think she has low self esteem, not high. And sometimes I wonder if this is why she craves attention so much. She has had a shit life, and I shouldn't be thinking such awful things about her, that it's not her fault...but then she chose that life for herself. Plus I can't condone or forgive certain of her behaviours.

You're right, I do feel fear, obligation and guilt, constantly. I go from feeling extremely angry at her, to feeling sorry for her, and putting myself down for thinking these horrible thoughts about my own mother. I tell myself the positive things she does instead, and try to make excuses for all the things she's done and still does that upset me.

My dad is still married to my mum. He isn't a very nice person either. It has long been known that we don't get along. Again, it was christian beliefs that put a wedge between us. He also has a temper and says hurtful things too quickly. I think that if they weren't christians who don't believe divorce is an option, my parents would have gone their separate ways a long long time ago. He doesn't give my mum attention, I use that as an excuse for her being so attention seeking.

I really don't know what to think. Do I think of her as an awful person who doesn't deserve a relationship with my children, or do I see her as someone who has had a crap life in this strange cultish religion, so doesn't know how to interact with people in a normal way?

princess well it was pretty easy in our case. Her behaviour caused us to trigger a safeguarding alert with the LA and it was pretty easy once we'd got paperwork to back us up!

It had been a long time coming though and we are so much happier for it.

I don't suppose it's that 'easy' for everyone, but it really is worth it. I just don't have any stress in my life anymore. I'm off ADs properly for the first time since I was 17 and much of that is to do with the fact that she is no longer a factor.

Your mum sounds much like mine. I don't remember a single minute in my childhood that my mother chose to spend with me. She repeatedly said mmm when I spoke and still does now. I know she hasn't heard a single word. And yet her eyes light up when she speaks to absolutely anyone else, she is animated and interested in what they have to say.
I have done the usual this week to try and placate her. I have allowed her to turn my house upside down while I have been helping her with her business. I have worked 12 hour days for her at the expense of my family and my own life. She left this morning without so much as a thank you. She says nothing when I put a coffee or pain killers or whatever else she has demanded next to her. I am exhausted physically and mentally today and my poor little house is trashed. I am badly thought of by family and her friends because of the way she paints me. She even let my dad's family think she was bringing up my eldest boy! The reality was she had hardly ever seen him and had never even babysitter him once! I went along with it like a tit. A) because I was shocked and B) because it would have caused so much grief if I had contradicted her. I was still bleeding from delivering my second at the time but still drove her 200 miles to visit them, she of course told everyone how she had come to help with the baby wtf?
My beloved dad died when I was 9. It was as if we hadn't lost a dad. She had lost a husband and I became responsible for her happiness. But I could never do enough.
I too have kept in touch because of my children. My eldest son knows how to play the game, he flatters her and massages her ego and he can do no wrong. My youngest on the other hand has had some serious problems with bullying at school and finds it incredibly hard to fit in. She has made no effort with him at all this week (nothing in it for her, she loves the way the big one fawns over her infront of her friends). But the 2 things she has said to him where calling him "billy no mates" and "saying she wasn't interested in anything he had to say anyway" when he was reluctant ant to discuss a part he has in a play because he wants it to be a surprise for those of us that will be going to see him.
My heart broke for my boy but also for the child that I once was. My mother genuinely has zero empathy and we are all just extras in the drama that is her life. I am considering going NC for my ds sake. I don't want her to damage his potential as she did mine. Luckily she lives overseas so it's not a daily problem.
So sorry this is so long. I just want you to know you are not alone and I feel your pain

• Babysitted

Ffs autocorrect babysat!

I have no contact with my Mum or Dad - they are separate, and have reasons for not being in touch with both ( I have tried )

At the end of the day, and as I have grown up, have come to realise they are just not nice people, an my parents they might be, but they are both very selfish, self absorbed people, an blood is not thicker than water -

I miss having a mum and dad every day, but I don't think I have ever had parents who gave a shit, so I'm not sure what I miss, but know I miss the closeness I see my friends having with theirs -

Can you be adopted at 34???

Thanks for your reply Curlysurly. It is really helpful to hear that I'm not alone. Our mums do sound a lot alike. Do you think that deep down they know that the way they're behaving is not normal? I tell myself that my mum is just incapable of showing emotion, that some people are just cold. But it is almost like she's embarrassed to say something nice. When we were living overseas, I made the effort to take photos of the children and send them to her via text message, thinking it would be nice for her because she obviously missed them. I remember a time I sent the same photo to her and to my MIL. My MIL replied something along the lines of 'aww thanks for the lovely photo, they both look gorgeous, give them hugs and kisses from me'. My mum replied 'looks like E is still in her pyjamas'. She is so WEIRD!

Strange thing is though, that she will compliment other people, tell them that she likes their top, ask them if they've had a haircut etc. She is like a totally different person. With me, I can change my hair colour, get my ears pierced ffs - and nothing. She acts as if she didn't notice, when i know she obviously has. She just can't communicate with me. Since moving back, I did resolve to put the past behind me and start fresh but she has made that impossible. It's not like I haven't tried. Every time I try to chat to her casually, she has this way of fixing on a key word, then interrupting me really rudely and telling me how she's been there, done that, got that, knows some distant relative who's been there, done that, and will proceed to tell me ALL about it in the most minute detail. It's infuriating.

I'm so glad I am able to vent here. Thank you everyone for listening, and I really value everyone's input, it's a real eye opener.

Aww oopsadaisyme, I'm so sorry. It totally sucks seeing other people's relationships with their parents. When I'm feeling really pissed off at my mum, I find it really hard to be around my MIL and SIL. They are so close. I don't have a relationship with my dad either but it's funny cos I don't care about that. I think I gave up on that and got over it a long time ago. Maybe the same will happen with my mum when I realise that the relationship can't be fixed.

princess bless ya, and yeah it does suck xx

But people are just people at the end of the day - you assume parents will just love their children, but mine have always looked after themselves first, always have -

hey ho, good luck to them

Hi Princess, I'm another one who's hopped over from the Stately Homes thread - would definately suggest you have a look at that thread when you have chance. I'm sorry you are having to go through all of this, i know how hard it can be dealing with an abusive mother. The fact that your mum is different with other people shows that she DOES know her behaviour is 'wrong' and not 'normal'. This is a classic trait of narcissistic/ abusive parents. She is going to the effort of putting on an act around other people so she looks lovely and to paint you in a bad light. She just doesn't care enough about your feelings to give you the love and kindness that she knows she should be. Hard to accept, but she knows exactly what she is doing, and simply does not care about the pain she is causing you - she is only focusing on what she wants/ needs, and if it suits her to hurt you and make you feel worthless then she has no qualms to do so. And I agree that it is exactly for these reasons that your children should not have contact with her. Abusive mothers generally become abusive grandparents, and you know yourself what damage your mum is capable of doing to a vulnerable child!

And my MIL and SIL have the perfect relationship too, and sometimes it hurts so much and i get jealous as hell. I feel so ashamed of my feelings, but i feel like I've missed out on so much that other people take for granted. It's hard when you are reminded of what you have lost

princess thank you for taking the time to write this thread. I'm sorry you have experienced this with your mother. I will share my story with you just to show you that you aren't alone :)

For years I tried so hard to create this relationship I saw other girls have with their mothers, pretending all was fine and feeling it was all my fault that something was amiss. It wasn't till a major crash in my early 30s (and leading to a diagnosis of bipolar), and meeting my now dh that I realised a lot of things were not my fault.

My mother just does not like women. I am a threat to her. She flirted with my xh and all ex boyfriends to the point of embarrassment. Interestingly never with now dh who would tell her where to go anyway! With her own sisters, two of whom experienced domestic violence, she took the side of the husbands. And as for me, with an ea husband I was the one at fault.

We did a half marathon together a few years ago and she couldn't have me beating her. I was always the difficult one, the problematic child, the dysfunctional one. Even after suicide attempts as a teenager (which should have picked up a mental illness I am now told) I was doing it to seek attention. At aged 11 she thought I had made up having appendicitis and they operated on me to humour me.

I could go on and on. Just a couple of weeks ago at 35 weeks pregnant she insisted on a visit despite me asking her not to come. I have hyperrmesis and with my bipolar have not had an easy pregnancy. We have a studio flat and it's impossible to have anyone over. But along she came. And it was the longest three days ever. A dawning realisation was that nothing I ever said seemed to be believed by her. I mean nothing. I finally lost my temper in a restaurant after having been told that I never ever ate vegetables. Oh, she said, I was only teasing you I didn't mean it. I was incredulous.

This was hotly followed by the fact that my brother and I were always ordering drinks with no thought for who was paying the bill and I was doing it at dinner. Given that I'd asked for a second diet coke, I'd paid for lunch for both earlier in the day and dh and I had paid 100 euro for dinner the night before which we could ill afford, I again had another go. I was just so fed up of always being painted like some spoilt difficult sub human.

And don't get me wrong, these continual putdowns are done in the most gentle and or jovial manner. To the point where you think eh? And you don't quite get the sting in the tail till later and you go away and think about it.

Sorry this is a ramble but basically it was very empowering to tell her off. I have never done so. I was in intensive psychotherapy for sexual abuse just before getting pregnant but still see my psychologist to keep tabs. I suddenly realised this was what she had been getting at - my mother has spent my whole life saying I am the one at fault to devolve herself of any responsibility. This has been crippling for most of my life but finally I feel I am taking back control.

The one that had dh trying not to laugh was over nail scissors for the baby. Apparently my mother has these scissors which must have been crafted by Jesus himself the way she was going on about them, and how they were wonderful nail scissors and her and my stepdad would be loath to part with them but maybe, just maybe if I wanted them she could bring herself to part with them. £10 nail scissors. This went on for about 10 minutes to the point where we'd be mauling the baby's fingers if we didn't use them, but even with that considered she just didn't know if she could part with them but if necessary for the sake of the baby she could. despite me repeatedly saying thanks but no thanks the message didn't quite seem to get through. Dh couldn't understand why someone would offer to give something then give 1000 reasons as to why it would be such a hardship to be without said item.

Today I finally discovered what a drama lama she is. A hotel booking had gone funny for a wedding but the automatic assumption was that it was my fault. I sent a terse reply back, got a gushing apology but not really an apology in return, the phone was ringing, I was getting bombarded with messages. Dh read them and was like really???

So I unplugged the phone. And it will stay unplugged until i want to talk to her again.

I have come to the conclusion that my mother does not believe a word I say and everything is my fault. I can't possibly be right and all mistakes and failures are my responsibility. Even as a small child. I now know that is not the case, but in her eyes that is all I am. So I have to configure my communication with her based on her perceptions, not on the relationship I hoped to have which i now know will never be.

I've decided to restrict contact severely to necessities. I think it's the only way to get through dealing with difficult people. When I get a wailing email I simply say I'm not well and don't engage. I realised that dealing with her is too much effort. I also don't really have a relationship with my father and it's all quite arms length. She is coming after the birth just for a few days but fortunately my stepdad will be there too and she is much better behaved when he is around. Doesn't want to let the halo slip I guess. I have realised contact with her makes me ill and makes my bipolar and anxiety much worse. Sometimes I can handle it but I know now that there will never be the relationship I had hoped for. What I can do is create a completely different relationship for my daughter so she never has to go through what I went through.

Apologies for the long message which was therapeutic basically you need to reduce contact. You don't need to explain it, just withdraw. If you try to debate it with people like this it's a road to nowhere as they will never acknowledge they were wrong.

Guilt is their weapon of choice and they wield it most effectively. You have to identify the triggers and then shut them off. Counselling has also helped me unpick a lot of why I reached to things and helped me change my own behaviour so I take the control back from them. There's a lot of anger there right now for a multitude of reasons - but i like the anger as it means I'm no longer a doormat. Have you had anything like this yet?

I really don't believe some people will change or want to change. Unless your mum is prepared to accept responsibility for her actions then you will be stuck with this for life. My psychologist said that it's highly unlikely they will change because they will not want to acknowledge what failures they were and they can't compute the hurt they caused to their child. So it's easier to ignore it and shift the blame.

Do consider nc. If for one minute I hear my mother talking to my daughter the way she does with me that will be the end. Good luck

The fact that your children are learning to "deal with" this woman is so extremely worrying.

The only way a child can internalise this kind of thing, or make sense of it, is to blame themselves. Children are generally highly intelligent but they're also extremely selfish. They can't fathom things not being their fault.

That means every time she is smarmy, nasty, dismissive or cold, they 100% believe it's because of what they've done, or who they are. Likewise, whenever she praises them, or they get their way with her, they believe it's because of what they've done, or who they are. This creates a dangerous atmosphere where they take on enormous responsibility for her behaviour.

If your youngest is being bullied and dismissed by her, and your oldest gets positive attention, you better believe that you are allowing your children to learn that one of them is better than the other.

It doesn't matter that she's not there all the time; the kids don't internalise that. They only internalise her view of them, and they carry that with them forever. These are not called formative years for nothing.

The fact that you allow this, and expose them to it, also tells them that you believe it. They think you're a god. They would never believe that you would allow them to be exposed to someone who didn't tell the truth with her actions. Your allowing access = you telling your children you trust your mother's judgement of them.

My DH comes from a family like yours. He cut contact with his mother the moment I fell pregnant because he knew the things that I am telling you.

Don't deceive yourself. Your mother is not harmless. Do not allow this woman near your children.

Yes, it's very sad that she fucked up her own life. But your children should not be made to pay for that.