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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

MIL boundary issues again

25 replies

seoladair · 28/04/2014 21:21

Some of you might remember me, particularly Atilla who has given lots of good advice.
MIL is a tricky woman with narcissistic tendencies.
DH and I will have a party soon. There will be a lunchtime party for our toddler, with games etc directed by some party professionals while the adults relax over a drink. All the parents are old uni friends who we hardly ever see

Later the same day we will have a grown-ups only party, where our toddler will be the only child.
We invited MIL to that party. She is now having the most almighty tantrum and insisting that she wants to come to the toddler party. The adults won't even be in the
room with the little ones. At Christmas she made snide comments about our child having too many presents and gave her a plastic tumbler as her xmas present to make a point. I want to keep the birthday party as something special for DH, me and LO.

She makes me tense and anxious, and the toddler party is a rare chance for us to reconnect with a small group of dear friends. She has been so horrible in the past, especially when our child was a newborn. I have worked hard to include her in our lives, and had made sure to invite her to our main party. How do I deal with this? DH is on the same page as me with this.

OP posts:
Quitelikely · 28/04/2014 21:30

It seems a bit harsh not to invite your own mother to your child's birthday party. I can understand if she was so harmful she got invited to non but why not let her come to the one she wants. I imagine your husband is stressed about this.

MommyBird · 28/04/2014 21:31

Let her have a tantrum. Tell her she can either come to the adult party or not at all.
Ignore her if she carries on.

Then sit and enjoy cake :)

Quitelikely · 28/04/2014 21:31

Boundary issues? It's his mum........and that's her GC

fluffyraggies · 28/04/2014 21:31

DH should be dealing with his mother, frankly. Why is it down to you?

Tell her 'no', explain why, and let her tantrum away.

Ellie36 · 28/04/2014 21:33

She sounds delightful! I'm assuming she isn't the type of woman to actually listen/take on board a "sorry you can't attend that"? Just hoping that being to the point may stop any drama?

BillyBanter · 28/04/2014 21:36

Those who think she should be invited to the other party too, would you also have an almighty tantrum about it?

Let her tantrum.

You don't have to invite her to every social event you have at your house.

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone · 28/04/2014 22:53

I've read some of your other threads.

You're a saint for still being in touch with her.

The best present you could possibly give your child -who is unfortunate to have this person as a grandmother -would be to start not giving a shit how much she tantrums. Smile and say no, sorry no can do. Maybe, just maybe by the time your little one is big enough to get dragged into this (and they will be) she might have learned that she needs to keep her nose clean if she wants to be in your lives.

Better present still? Cut contact.

seoladair · 28/04/2014 23:53

Thank you. I have followed advice in the Toxic In-Laws book and it has enabled me to have a tolerable and polite relationship with her. But my poor DH feels he has become her scapegoat even more than previously. You might remember that her own daughter is almost estranged from her so that's the kind of person we're dealing with.
we spent 3 days with her over Easter and I had to ask her to stop sshouting at DH over some minor thing. I just don't want all that crap at my daughter's party; we just want a chilled-out time with old friends.

There will be lots of people at the evening party so I can avoid the stress!

OP posts:
pigsDOfly · 29/04/2014 00:23

So she's demanding to come along to a party where she's going to sit, no doubt with a scowl on her face, with a group of your friends who presumably, are all around your age and the parents of the small children in the other room.

Why would she even want to be there.

Tell her that the daytime party is for your friends and you'll see her in the evening. But don't be surprised if she turns up in the daytime anyway, in which event, short of turning her away, I'd give her a drink, sit her in a corner and ignore her.

mummytime · 29/04/2014 06:01

You really need to build boundaries!

My IL are fine (normally odd certainly not toxic), but they never knew about my toddler's birthday parties - admittedly they lived too far and had too many health issues to come, but we didn't discuss that kind of stuff with them.

So stop telling her stuff she doesn't need to know. Do not spend 3 days with her. Short visits only, and be prepared to "escape" if necessary.

Is your DH having any counselling and advice about dealing with her? It does sound like he is stuck in FOG.

Some poster's here "just don't get it", so don't accept their criticism.

Vivacia · 29/04/2014 06:24

So the real children's party is happening in a different room? (Run by "party professionals"?). That's the bit I think most grandparents would want to be at.

Also, I remember one Christmas when my brother's favourite gift was a ThunderCat's beaker.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/04/2014 07:18

Oh Seoladair,

She basically needs to be uninvited; you are tense and anxious regarding her even when she is not in the same room as you. She will not behave!.

Where are your own boundaries here?. How much more are you both going to put up with from this awful damaged woman?. What has made you go back for yet more abuse from her?. This is about power and control; MIL is determined to sit in on your DDs birthday party no matter who gets hurt here and the two of you as her parents will feel completely blindsided and hurt beyond measure (not just to say totally embarrassed and ashamed because your past uni friends will be there too) by her yet again.

The best birthday present you can give yourselves is to go no contact with her as of now and I never write that at all lightly. (I did ask you originally about your MILs own childhood and was not surprised to read any of that either).

Your narcissist MIL will ruin and will continue to ruin any occasion you invite her to. What possessed you to invite her in the first place, was it pressure from your DH who is also still in fear, obligation and guilt with regards to his mother?. I presume he forced your hand even though you had your own real misgivings. His actions are also hurting his own family unit. He is still allowing her to rule your lives.

For Mr S:-
"If find yourself angry, resentful, sad, withdrawn, irritable, silent, withholding, stubborn, argumentative, or just numb, you are what many guys in the men’s biz would call “not in your power.” You know when you’re not in your power. You can feel it. You just might not have ever labelled it. You’re not in your power when you feel weak, stuck, paralyzed, victimized, and in the problem. And you feel weak when these negative feelings take hold.

How did this happen? Well, you had help. When you were young, you learned how a man behaves with, responds to, and deals with women. Your greatest teacher, for better or worse, was probably dad.

Whatever your circumstances, a young boy learns from his parents (or other adults) how to thrive or survive in relationships. Depending on the level of dysfunction in your family of origin, you may have had to develop some very interesting coping skills.

For example, if dad was a coward, and mom grew to be (in your eyes) an angry, controlling “bitch”, you know very well how to “please” mommy so as to avoid her wrath. Or, dad may have left (divorced, died, abandoned, abused, etc.) the family when you were young, and mom bestowed upon you her resentment toward men.

What happens for these unfortunate boys is that they grow up to be self-hating men. These men unconsciously do not trust other men or themselves. For these guys, being who they are—men—is shameful. As a result, they relinquish all power to the women in their lives, without even being asked. This offering up of men’s power is one of the main contributors to women feeling unsafe, insecure, and, ultimately, resentful and angry.

To relinquish power is to be other than the man you want to be in a given situation. You don’t speak up. You avoid conflict in the face of intolerable circumstances. You lie to appease. You lie to yourself, attempting to believe that you are not disappointed or even disgusted with your own behaviour.

Back to mum.

Your primary concern is pleasing your mother, even now you seek her approval (approval that she will never give you btw). Its killing you slowly - along with your relationship with your wife".

AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/04/2014 07:25

His mother will eventually make herself estranged from every family member. Its hard for your DH to be the last one left but he is really hurting himself and by turn you and his child here. He keeps on going back in the hopes that she will change and perhaps even apologise (you probably try re MIL mainly for your DHs sake); he needs to realise that this will never happen, the fantasy in his head will remain just that.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. He is and was already her scapegoat to begin with, she cannot make him feel any more worse than he possibly is. He has to accept that his mother is not the person whom he always thought she was, that reality built up in his head is all going to come crashing down. He cannot face the truth about his mother.

KatieKaye · 29/04/2014 07:33

I think you went above and beyond inviting her to the adults party!
this woman is a menace, and it is unfortunate you are related to her. The only thing you can do is to try to limit her opportunities to impact negatively on your life.
She is seeing her GC on their birthday. She cannot dictate that she is allowed to gatecrash the afternoon party. Your house, your party - your rules. These events are not designed for her.
And why do I get impression she will behave badly and be an embarrassment?
Anyone who behaves like a toddler should be treated like a toddler! Just say "MIL, you are not invited to the afternoon party." And if she keeps on stropping, then tell her not to come to the evening one either. At some point she has to realise that her bad behaviour has negative implications

longjane · 29/04/2014 07:34

I am really sorry about your MIL.
But a bit what at this party idea.

A toddler party run by professions now unless you are paying 1000s or you all have nannys that know the children well.
you and other adults are going to have to be in same room as them. as for drinking alcohol with loads kids that don't know each and parents that you don't know how you they parent. What
And having the energy for evening party with grumpy toddler in tow.
Have you had a kids party before. There will screaming kids tried kids hungry kids fighting kids . You and the other parents will have to sort this out . The party people won't

As a older person the kids party is one i would want go too not the evening which will be full of your friends .

Fizzybangfanny · 29/04/2014 07:41

Hi op I totally understand.
I'm NC with my own M for ten years now because of her disgusting narc ways.

Mil is is not even on her level but gives it a good go. We've not invited her to dd birthday party at the zoo, where most of the family are going. I'm not sure if she is aware if that yet as I'm sure they won't mention it either , not that I've asked them to keep it to there selves.

I don't want the day turning in to the mil show, she will criticise every thing, say it's a waste of money. Go in a mood if we go so e where she doesn't . Go in a mood if we are walking to fast/ too slow. Refuse to eat the food,feel left out if some one is having a conversation she can't join in on and just interject with something totally random to swerve the convo to her, want to leave before we are ready.

Just can't be arsed with it. I'm preparing for battle but I'm at the point I don't care. If it causes a row, good. Then I don't have to speak to her.

Good luck and dig deep.

seoladair · 29/04/2014 09:22

Thanks everyone.

DH has really grown and developed in the past 3 years. He is supportive now where he was in denial about his mother. I have kept Atilla's previous advice in mind and read the Susan Forward book from cover to cover and I think that has really helped.

DH said something interesting yesterday. He described how he always feels his perception of his mother is blurred, when she shouts at him, he can't think straight and gets confused about whether it's all his fault. I explained to him about FOG (fear obligation and guilt). He had never heard of it, but his own use of the word blurred seems so close to FOG.

He used to be the golden child while his sister was the scapegoat. His sister has completely removed herself so she tried to scapegoat me but I think she knows I won't take it, so now poor DH has to bear the brunt. He says she has got worse recently, which corresponds to her being better with me.

Re the party; we will be in an adjacent room with a glass wall separating us, so the kids can see us while the staff run the party games and supervise soft play. And it's one glass of champagne each (included in the party package) so I think we'll be fine! Got to be more relaxing than last year's party with 8 toddlers rampaging in our living room!

OP posts:
LoonvanBoon · 29/04/2014 10:14

I think the party sounds lovely - especially the champagne for the parents! I've been to lots of children's parties over the years & it's been very rare indeed for GP to attend. Most people I know have had relatives over separately. So you're certainly not doing anything out of the ordinary in organizing things like this, if that helps!

I guess the thing with boundaries & people like your MIL is that they will always try to trample on them, & they need constant reinforcing. Having stock responses & repeating them is something I find useful as it helps me not to become too emotionally caught up in the situation.

The key point is that you & your DH are in agreement here, which makes all the difference - you can support each other & agree as to what will be said if your MIL keeps going on about this. Hope you have a great party!

seoladair · 29/04/2014 11:12

Thank you!
I'll keep going with these boundaries. It's just sad that she keeps making special days all about her. And next time we have a party we won't tell her which is not ideal but is a consequence of her behaviour. She moans about her daughter not caring about her but has no insight into the reasons.

OP posts:
Holdthepage · 29/04/2014 12:48

The way to handle people like this is to only give them the bare minimum of information. I know it is too late this time but for future social events only tell her about the one she is invited to. Think of it like a firewall between her and the rest of your life. If you keep her contained in this way it will all be more tolerable.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 29/04/2014 12:56

I think I remember previous threads from you. Keep on and do not falter, this is a result of her behaviour. Don't engage more than necessary.

RedRoom · 29/04/2014 14:45

You may find she behaves herself in the company of your friends/ strangers, instead of her family members!

Personally, I'd let her come on the expectation that she won't want to show herself up. If she misbehaves, you may wish to tell her that she is making other guests very uncomfortable with her behaviour and that it means she won't be coming to any other parties in case there is an embarrassing repeat.

seoladair · 30/04/2014 09:03

Redroom you are right that she probably would behave. Actually she sparkles in company. It's the family who bear the brunt of her temper.

Anyway, she has now agreed to come to the evening party instead of the toddler party, so we will be able to chill with our close friends now without being on edge! DH is learning how to deal with her, after 3 years of me begging him to put his wife and child on an equal footing with his mother. He is a good man and I understand how hard it is for him to call her out on her bad behaviour. 3 years ago he was like a child where she was concerned, now I feel he is growing into his role as a husband and father.

OP posts:
RedRoom · 03/05/2014 19:50

Thank god for that!! Enjoy your party.

ROUNDandROUNDINCIRCILESMORETHA · 04/05/2014 19:56

Ah i understand how you feel
my mil is in a way similar if i go to a local event without her she gets ''upset' but my daughter is slowly getting to age where she will want to go places with our friends and when a teenager well another story. I think what you have done sounds lovely. Dont give in because she is feeling rejected.- its important to have a balance and unless she is offerring to be helpful then stick to yr origional plan. X

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