*To have a discrete word with MIL or not? Please advise*

[ScarlettSahara]

Been secret lurker on here for a while and picked up useful nuggets of advice. First time posting so please try & refrain from eating me alive bare with me.
Main current problem is that MIL has 3 GC's,divorced twice and lives 230 miles away and does not drive. Phone conversations /most conversations revolve around GC1 (SIL's child) whom she has had considerable input with. Glowing reports of his academic ability, sporting achievements etc.Have heard with phone on speaker DH saying "DD has some good news of her own" and it is barely acknowledged
My DD quite bright but lacks self-belief and was bullied at school about 18 months ago. Let it go on for 9 months trying to encourage her to solve it herself. In the end another parent rang me up to say she was not eating at school etc. She had lost weight but I had not realised . Seem to have caught that in time but MIL quite harsh in her judgements. Tried talking to her on phone about the bullying thing (my mum died when I was a girl and dad died 2 years ago)
MIL said perhaps DD was exaggerating/making it all up but I did not believe so as sometimes obviously upset but would not talk.Went to school in the end and they sorted it

Latest situation is we travelled to MIL at Easter and treated her and SIL to meal out. Were there for 5 hours and she barely addressed 2 sentences to DD. DD was the only GC there. DD sat by her on sofa but no hugs or chat to DD apart from 2 questions. DD's body language was ready and eager not non-communicative. 90% of conversation was about GC 1 and how well he is doing with teachers, sports, drama etc etc.( well felt like everything TBH)
I could see my daughter retreating into herself. Tried talking to DD next day and she said she was upset but did not want to talk about it. Have since then spent time with FIL and his family (also many miles away) and they were very kind and gave her attention and she interacted well with them and her cousins on his side.

Spoke to DH and he said he was upset too but not sure how to handle it. This sort of thing normally goes over his head and de makes lots of allowances so has to be bad for him to notice. He will not stand any criticism of his mum and hates confrontation. Ex- wife of BIL used to comment that MIL gave more attention/gifts to GC1. I did not mind gifts cos DD gets enough and does get small gifts From MIL and I always assumed she was compensating for GC1 having only 1 parent.
DH is thinking of phoning his mum-hence this post but am not sure if this will create a rift and if should tackle it another way eg invite her here for holiday and see what happens then?Am I over-reacting. Would anyone else be upset by this/ worry about the effect on their DD/DS. Any advice from MIL's?
Sorry this post so long but am really stuck and feel bad for my DD. Don't want to bash my MIL cos she has done some kind things in past but I just don't understand this praising 1 GC over the top in front of another and then barely speaking to them .Thanks

Oops- can't believe I used the wrong "discrete" instead of discreet and the wrong bare actually. Just talked to DH and he feels he should talk to his mum. Feels she was unfair to DD with whole wonderful GC1 thing and that she harped on about it too much but can offer no explanation for that other than she sees him (DGC1) a lot more and has lived with him. No comment from DH on his mum's lack of effort to interact with our DD whilst she was there. He just went quiet when I mentioned that last point.
So in summary he feels he should speak to his mum. He does not want to speak to SIL or BIL for their take on things and he has no idea what he will say-I just hope it does not backfire. I think she will assume it has all come from me.
Will update when any more news/he has spoken to her.Thank you everyone for taking time to respond with advice/share your own experiences-much appreciated.Any late comments still welcome.

Scarlett-my PIL favour their daughters children even though they live at the other end of the country. They spend every birthday with them and don't bother seeing mine on theirs, go on holiday with them
And spend numerous days out with them as well-none of which they do with ours.

My final tipping point was when the decided to not stick to their alternate Christmas visits to SIL and her family and went for the second year in a row-saw mine for two hours before hand and gave them their presents. Took their other GC out Christmas Eve with expensive treats as well!

I haven't seen them since October and DC have seen them occasionally. I have told DH that I don't think that the way they are treated is right and he has said he would have a word with them-but he hasn't! I'm sure that they know anyway but I'm sick to death if having to fight for my DC because he doesn't ! He has said that they do love the DC and wouldn't do anything deliberately-he even said that he can see why I would think the way I do!!

I'm tired of them coming second best-the PIL always compare too-I have in the past just commented to cut that dead, but I know it's a waste of time.

In short, I have left it to DH but this has proved to be a waste of time. I have also asked him whether he thinks it's worth them seeing them at all as they are getting nothing out if the relationship. It makes me sad that they don't see how wonderful my kids are and makes me realise that it's ok for me to be upset it hurt by it but not ok to rock the boat with his parents

Sorry I missed your message Grubbly and yes all that sounds very hurtful.Just wondered how you and hubby got on with PILS before you had your DC's and also what they are like with presents for your DC's?
I don't think that you can be the one to speak to them unfortunately unless you did it along the lines of "I hope I or DC's haven't upset you cos was quite concerned when you did not stay as usual last Christmas?"
Perhaps it just has not occurred to them how their behaviour appears.
Do you see your own parents?
Still waiting for my DH to speak to my MIL which he said he will but he is ill at moment so we shall see....
Some for you

Hi I am a MIL , Mother and Daughter and read your post. My own MIL told me before I was to marry her precious son that she did not want him to marry me as I was not good enough. So what did I do ? I married her son and have a successful happy marriage with amazing children who anyone would be proud of. Life is not fair. I have not let this unhappy woman ruin my life as I only have one life. She is so full of issues that she is filled up to the brim. Over the years I cut seeing her to the bare minimum , although I never refused to go to her house and was polite.
I have not asked my husband to take sides because she is his Mother and was kind to him when he was young and he remembers it. He will not take sides anyway as he loves us both.
Luckily you don't have to see much of her and you have others in your life who like you and love you. Your daughter will soon grow up and ignore her as well if she is as bad as you say. My kids did not like going to her house one bit. So try not to think about her as you are not going to change her. Try instead to think about the good things in your life and don't go and stay with her for long enough to feel ill with tension. The situation between Mothers and their Daughters in Laws is well documented but it takes two to engage. So don't engage. I am glad you have a daughter , as I have two . Yea!

I forgot to say that I have Daughter in Laws as well as well as Sons in Law. Bearing in mind my own experience with my MIL I have been very careful and have a good relationship with the DIL's although realistically we are not close like they are with their own Mothers. Although it is early days yet and a warmer relationship might grow. As I said they have their own Mothers and they go and see their family frequently much more frequently than they see me and my sons do as they are told. I felt surprised when this happened and mourned for my sons as I love them so much. But I can hardly feel resentful as my husband saw more of my family and my Mum than he did of his own.
I think if you look into your heart and listen to your inner voice telling you what is important you can learn to be happier and not so concerned with other people and what they think and do. When I am upset by someone I say to myself ' if you were going to die tomorrow would you want them at your bedside ? And if the answer is no, then I forget them and the problem. We can't change people we can only change ourselves. Don't make your husband talk to her as she will undoubtably blame you, just try and forget her and don't engage.

I have read Grubbyplank' s post. It is the way of the world that 1. Life is unfair. 2. Mothers feel more comfortable with their own daughters than their Daughter in Laws. I won't repeat the old adage 'a daughter is a daughter for life ' etc, as you will know it. If you have a son then inevitably you will have a Daughter in Law and be her Mother in Law. Each stage of our lives presents different challenges. Your Mother In Law feels more comfortable with her daughter and closer to her than you. She may like you very much but it will not alter that fact. I feel closer to my daughters than I feel towards my Daughters in Law , although I like them and appreciate them , and are glad that they married my sons. I just love my daughters more.
My DIL 's are not being fair going to their Mothers and Families all the time instead of me, are they ? I know however that they might watch me like a hawk to see that I am being absolutely fair when it comes to dishing out presents and paying attention to them, but not think about how unfair they are being to me themselves. It is the way of the world.
All I can do is try my best. They can choose to take offence.
However , it is also very likely that I will love their babies more than them as they will be my blood relatives. I only have GC by my daughters at the moment.
So try and be nice to your MIL. If she does bad things she will be paid back when she gets old and frail anyway. She is probably doing her best to be fair and did you really want her for Christmas anyway? Wasn't it nicer on your own? Doesn't her being there make you feel tense? Getting so mad and resentful will make you ill and affect your relationship with your husband who loves you both , no doubt.

My grandmother was very similar so I can see this from your DDs point of view. She favoured my 3 male cousins over me and was forever gushing about how talented/attractive/amazing they were and I often felt left out as a child. I remember feeling overlooked and it went on until adulthood. Only a few years ago at a party she introduced her 'wonderful grandchildren' (gesturing to my cousins) to guests while I sat next to her, ignored.

I did learn to ignore it in the end and the hurt faded. The best thing my parents did was play it down and made it clear that they recognised my achievements and talents, so it didn't matter that other family members didn't. They also made a bit of a joke of it, about how over the top it all was. I ended up having a good relationship with my grandmother despite the blatant favouritism.

I experienced similar with my grandmother she much prefered all our cousins to us - she called us "wild" and our cousins "nice natured" - and all the GC were from her daughters. We were "wild-er" as my Mum was left widowed and penniless in her twenties with 6 children under 6 years but my GM still chose to live with other daughter round the corner and help her daily with her 3 children and house work even though my mum was juggling 3 different part time jobs - cleaning, waitressing and bar work -- she got no practical or emotional help from her own mother and when my Mum went out to work in the evenings we had a dodgy range of young male babysitters (at least 2 sexually abused my siblings)....whilst she sat around the corner bathing the cousins, doing the ironong etc for her other daughter.

What was good was that my Mum was up front about it to us so we did not take it personally. Maybe that would be good to do with your daughter. I am also of the belief that peopel never change and you should limit cntcat to toxic people it is her loss that she will noy know your wonderful daughter - and you daughters gain that she will not be inflicyed with your MIL toxic nonsense.

Accept her as she is mimimise contact dont bother with the "conversation" let your DH do what he needs/wants to do with his mother. Leave your daughter out of it as much as possible....only expose her to nice people who build her self esteem she does not need you MIL and her shite.

Sorry I have not seen recent posts. Thank you for sharing your own experiences - it does help. toyoung-Thank you for your wise words-I do understand that a MIL will feel closer to her DD than DIL but just did not expect that to extend to GC's. I would hope that if I am lucky enough to be GP I will try and make all my GC's feel good about themselves. On that last visit my DD may as well have been a stranger so much so that I began thinking-does MIL have early dementia?? but then altho she has done some nice things for DD e.g knitting teddy clothes she has never sung her praises either or encouraged her after a good school report.. Five hours together with barely 2 sentences addressed to DD seems so odd. Hope toyoung that your closeness to your DILs improves.

katy- thanks for sharing that and I am sure it must have been hurtful. Glad you managed a good relationship with your GM in the end.

Minimise contact with this toxic cow.

Oh deepest I am sorry for what you and your family have been through.
Latest on our situation is that DH has said he knows he needs to talk to his mum and that he feels her behaviour was unfair to DD but as yet he has done nothing- I am reluctant to push it.
I have not felt able to discuss it further with DD either. I am still unsure whether to invite MIL to stay in the hope that it offers her the opportunity to engage. I really do not think she was being malicious but I just don't understand lack of enthusiasm to DD either..

"Latest on our situation is that DH has said he knows he needs to talk to his mum and that he feels her behaviour was unfair to DD but as yet he has done nothing- I am reluctant to push it".

I would bloody well push it because his mother is favouring other grandchildren. Infact I would not at all let his mother or that SIL of yours for that matter either see your child.

Why is that, you feel he could well take her side?. He sounds very deep in FOG (Fear, obligation, guilt) with regards to his mother in any case. He does not want to "upset" her and nor do you.

"I have not felt able to discuss it further with DD either".

Why not?. Such parental paralysis on your part does her no favours and just serves to further lowers her already low self worth; she is noticing that her nan favours others over her all too clearly and you as her mum have not spoken out. Why can't you speak to your child about such favouritism and say to your child that we are no longer tolerating anything like this and I am very sorry that this has happened to you. Not saying anything to anyone just gives this whole sad problem yet more power.

Re this comment:-
" I am still unsure whether to invite MIL to stay in the hope that it offers her the opportunity to engage. I really do not think she was being malicious but I just don't understand lack of enthusiasm to DD either.."

Oh please get your head out of the sand here!!. No, do NOT invite this awful woman over to stay. You after all made a trip up to visit this woman and the SIL and all your DD got from her Nan in a total of 5 hours was the grand sum of 2 sentences. Did you get the same as a child from your own grandparents?. None of this is at all acceptable.

Ok she is family but family members can be toxic and unreasonable. This MIL is incapable of being nice to any of you. You are too nice and keep going back for more abuse and letting your own child get caught up in this as well because on some level you think that next time she will change and thus be a better person. It is not going to happen, ever!.

Your MILs behaviour is toxic and is patently NOT how emotionally decent healthy family members behave. You've both been far too bloody nice (your H has been conditioned not to challenge his mother, her second H also did his bit here as well re that) and accommodating and awful people like your MIL will always take advantage of such niceness on your part.

I am again sorry that you no longer have parents yourself so your DD does not have grandparents on the maternal side but no grandparents are better than having his mother who ignores your DD routinely. I presume this is the main reason why you yourself pursue any contact at all but no contact is better than any contact with a toxic and uncaring relative. Your DD will wonder of you if she is not already why you still want any sort of relationship at all with this woman and will not thank you for trying to get this woman to show her/you/your DH any interest.

Some grandparents really should not be allowed any access to their grandchildren.

How old is your dd? I can see why you want to invite you mil over Scarlett, but if you do, make sure that you protect your dd from her.

We have friends with a dm/dmil who can be spectacularly unfriendly. Her Grandkids do get on with her, but all call her GrumpyGran at home. It's an in joke with them, so that if she is grumpy they have never taken it personally, as they believe that is just how she is . . .

So don't build up your dd's expectations. If you do decide you want to give it a go, then chat to your dd first. "Shall we ask Granny to stay next summer? She's a bit grumpy isn't she, so we might have to do lots of fun things together to try to cheer her up, but if it doesn't work, well, we can have fun when she's gone. I think she does like children, cause she talks about (dgc1) a lot, but maybe she doesn't know what to say to them when they are there. Perhaps you could do some drawing with her? Or shall we just wait and see if she wants us to visit her?"

Give your dd some say in the matter, and work with her, if you do want to go ahead, on strategies to survive. It could be fun, rolling your eyes at each other, or having a sweepstake on how many times she will mention dgc1 before supper . . . ?

I would invite her - and I'd make it explicit as to why I was inviting her, too. Just come straight out with it: "Hi, MIL, it was really obvious at our last visit that you didn't feel comfortable with DD, and she and I wondered if it's because you haven't really had the chance to get to know her as well as you could do. We'd like to invite you to stay here and spend some time with DD. She enjoys her time with FIL so much, it makes DH and I sad that she doesn't seem to have the same relationship with her only other surviving grandparent."

Yes, slightly passive-aggressive so I'll probably get flamed, yes, slightly jealousy-provoking, but it's a case of whatever it takes to get her to realise. If she is genuinely thoughtless in her favouritism she won't even notice the PA bit (this would be my MIL - favouritism is obvious but non-intentional, just total lack of awareness of others).

At least if she then turns down the invitation, you know where you stand - and you wouldn't need to feel guilty about not going to her house again.

Of course, if you think it's deliberate, play her at her own game. Every time she says anything, tell her what a wonderful time DD had at FIL's, every time she mentions DGC, say how much DD enjoyed spending time with her (other) cousins, how they're like siblings to her, and how it's so nice when cousins get on, isn't it? I'd only do this if I was absolutely certain MIL's actions were intentionally nasty, though, and I was forced to endure visits, as a way of making them more entertaining for myself. Cheap point-scoring isn't particularly edifying, but it is amusing .

Thanks for taking the trouble to post your views and I am considering them carefully.
Interesting points Atilla and I think that my indecision is puzzling to you so I will try and explain:
Of course my over-riding loyalty will always be to DD first.
During the initial visit and as things unravelled I was so surprised I could not think of what to say without putting out a nasty vibe although if somebody said something overtly nasty I would challenge that. I also kind of felt it was my DH's place to say something.

DH loves his mum. I love DH. I do not want to make DH choose.

I am aware that not everybody would behave as I would. I would not behave that way myself but still I don't think it is deliberate. We have no family near to us and no GP's on my side. I don't want to rule out MIL unless it really continues to have a bad effect on my daughter-it is easy to rule a person out of your life but not so easy to "win" them back I think.

I did talk to DD at the time and she said she was upset but did not want all the family talking about it. I reassured her that I am sure MIL loves her but that she has had a big say in bringing up GC1.

I have tried talking to DD again this evening since your post and she said she was a "bit upset"- code for quite a bit. I suggested a visit from MIL and she just shrugged her shoulders. (she has beeen keen in the past) but she is also suffering with a nasty virus at the moment so I will see how she feels another time. I have worried about making too much of it with DD thinking it better to play it down and concentrate on the good cos she has already had to contend with bullying from a couple of teachers at previous school and from some so-called friends.
Thanks again for your considered response.

Sally DD is 13-in some ways a very young 13 and in others she can be old beyond her years. I like your suggestions though and might try those in adolescent speak!

Nonny,thanks for the suggestions. Your "point-scoring" did make me laugh

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.

Your MIL doesn't like your dd.

It's that simple.

For all the pussy footing about your dh is doing, it's not going to change.

What she has done to your DD is unacceptable, utterly off the chart unacceptable. Your H needs to tackle this, and you too need to make sure your dd knows that it's wrong, that you think it's wrong and that none of it has been caused by her.

Refuse all visits. Be absolutely bald about the reason why: "Last time we came, we weren't made welcome, so it's best to leave it for now"

Don't allow anyone to brush this under the carpet, this is too important. This is about your dd. Be calm, be cool, be matter of fact. Don't raise your voice, no emotion. Don't fuel or feed any drama she is likely to through up.

Yeah mil will kick off, but any normal person'd be mortified that their gd was made to feel that way because of something they'd done. Hence, the more she kicks off, the weirder and more toxic she is.

Your dd got hurt here. Find your inner Mumma Bear and don't allow that to happen again!

Just my own experience of my mother's mother who lived with us and was always making unfavourable comparisons between me and my cousin, her son's daughter. I never did ask if she was just as rotten with them, might have been.

So just be glad she doesn't live with you and that your FIL has enough love for your dd to fill the space.

Quick update as promised but not sure if anyone still following!
DH rang MIL a couple of weeks ago and told her that DD had felt left out of things and that he felt there was rather too much talk about DG1.

MIL did apologise which was good but then added that she talked about DG1 cos she knew about him . As a previous poster said upthread it was up to MIL as an adult to engage with DD. Am trying to get it I really am but her explanation feels a bit feeble and DD no longer excited if MIL is on phone. Bit sad all round really. Really not sure how she feels about DD.
Anyway I did hear DH say at end of conversation that there should be less about GC1 and more about DD next time. We shall see...