Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How to maintain NC?

14 replies

SquidgeOps · 25/04/2014 17:38

I need a break from my parents. I've never got on with my mum since my teenage years really. It took me twenty years to realise she is passive aggressive and that I don't have to put up with it. (An early example of this is that I went on the pill aged 18 whilst in a 2 year relationship, and partly because of my periods. When I tried to talk to her about it she was very disapproving. I went to the doctor for the appointment and hey presto she was in the waiting room waiting to see another doctor?! Then she didn't speak to me for a month, even though I was still living at home. Is this normal?!).

We are so different too. I feel like the black sheep sometimes. I'm not saying it's all her and I know I'm not the easiest person in the world. But a lot of it comes from her. We just don't get on. And I'm fine with that now.

I'm 44 now. Have my own family and we are very close. Things have just blown up again and I just need to bow out. I tried to a couple of years ago but was pressured with the "you only have one family, we need to get over this, how could you" sort of stuff and we reconciled, as much as was ever going to be possible.

She makes no effort to meet up, but constantly says "we've not seen you for ages, we've not seen the GC for ages" so it always falls to me. The truth is they have been useless GPs. My DS are 11 and 9. They GPs lost my boys' interest/affection years ago because they have never been hands on GPs. Now they say can the GC go stay for a few days in the Summer hols. But the DCs don't want to go. But they keep asking. And it's getting really awkward and embarrassing. I will not force my children to go and stay with them for a few days against their wills. So I tried to say they get a bit bored (my parents mostly stay in watching TV all day every day with a weekly trip to the supermarket. My kids are very capable of entertaining themselves for hours on end with Lego etc. but still...). So I said maybe they could come for a night and see how they find it. But of course I'm being mean/unfeeling/callous etc. (not said, but defo implied. In fact I would rather she say it so that we could have it out, but it's just sitting there bubbling away).

I just don't know how to go NC and maintain it. I don't actually want to hurt her/them. I don't mean them any harm. I just find the relationships so difficult and always with stuff bubbling away/unsaid/implied.

OP posts:
DeckSwabber · 25/04/2014 18:08

There comes a point when children stop being children and the mum/daughter relationship has to grow into something else. Your first example suggests that your mum found it hard to make the transition from parenting a child to being a mum to an adult daughter.

Could you take up their offer of some time in the summer by offering them some dates that suit you, and then booking a nice midweek break or long weekend. Your kids will be fine, your mum will have what she wished for, and you'll get a break.

DeckSwabber · 25/04/2014 18:40

ps - regarding nc, could you try setting a day when you call, say once a week on a Wednesday. Then stick to it. Six days a week you'll be nc.

If they want to see the gc, tell them to organise something and give them options - tell them your children like doing x and y.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/04/2014 18:54

Hi Squidge,

If they are too difficult/toxic/awful for you to deal with they are far too toxic for your both vulnerable and defenceless children. They saw through them years ago as well, they saw their dislike of you as their mother as well as their disinterest and have acted accordingly. Apart from anything else, young people need positive role models and your parents are anything but those. Would not have even offered them therefore even one night with them. Your parents are used to riding rough shod over any boundary you care to set as well.

You being the reasonable person you are write that you do not want to hurt them but they have never thought twice about hurting you emotionally have they?. They truly do not deserve any consideration from you. You owe them nothing and they will also never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

As you rightly say you cannot force your children to go to their GPs and they do not want to go to see them anyway.

Many people, when first attempting to go no contact, make minor errors that lead to stressful consequences. Here's how to avoid them...
___

Ideally, a toxic person with whom you are refusing contact should be told (in some way) that you are no longer willing to have contact with them, or else they can't be expected to stop calling, writing or visiting. Many people write a simple no contact letter stating that they consider the relationship over and do not wish to be contacted in any way again. However, some people feel the person already knows (or should know) that they clearly don't want a relationship and they opt not to send a letter. There are certain drawbacks to the option -- you may worry the process is more likely to be interrupted if you haven't clearly announced your intentions.

Some who opt not to write a NC letter do so because they believe sending a letter is engaging the person more, which they don't want. If the party they are seeking NC with continues to seek contact, they typically put it down in writing at that point. However, you will be the best judge of what is right for your situation.

No contact means no contact. If you are going NC but plan on keeping touch with mutual friends or family, you will need to make it clear at some point that you do not want to discuss anything about people with whom you have gone NC. Do not accept information and triangulation with third parties. Interrupt them immediately and tell them not to continue.

Also, listening to phone messages, failing to block NC parties on Facebook, Twitter, etc., and accepting cards, letters, emails and gifts is not considered to be no contact. If you are called on the phone, the instant you realize who it is, the phone should be hung up without comment. If a message is being left (or about to be left) on an answering machine while you are present, simply pick up the call and immediately hang up to break contact. Call blocking is a tremendous help, and is inexpensive or free. Contact your phone service provider for details of available plans.

Mail is thrown out unopened. Returning mail to the sender is stimulating and rewarding to toxic people, and they are encouraged by it. They typically respond to returned mail by sending even more, so don't return it. Gifts should also be given away/thrown away unopened as well, unless harassment charges/court proceedings may come up and you feel you may want the items as potential future evidence that you were not left alone. (It is better to save them and not need them than need them and not have them.) If you wish to save them but would be too tempted or upset by their presence, immediately give them to a trusted third party.

Block your email. If anything gets through, as soon as you recognize the sender, it should be deleted without being opened or read. (Again, the exception to the rule would be if you felt you may need it as evidence of unwanted contact, in which case, you could save it without opening it, provided you did not feel a personal safety issue might be involved). In such cases, you may wish to have a trusted third party read the messages for you and let you know only if they contain any threats made against you. The rest of any messages would not be relayed to you.

If you need to keep the emails and the temptation to read them would be strong, arrange to forward all unopened emails to a third party who is not in any way connected to the person you are NC with. (A trustworthy friend of many years from work or a dependable neighbor friend are examples.) Choose this person very carefully; it should be someone completely unconnected to the NC party (total strangers to them are best) and someone who is trusted and capable of holding the emails without losing them or otherwise putting them at risk carelessly.

Emails, letters, and phone calls from third parties should be treated similarly. The caller or sender should immediately be told that you will not discuss the matter with anyone, and that they are not to call about, write about, or raise the issue with you ever again.

The most common mistake made by people who are initiating no contact is allowing third party communication to leak through to them. Stop people immediately if they begin telling you anything, and let them know you'll no longer hear anything about people with whom you are NC. If the person refuses to respect your wishes, you may opt to limit contact with them as well.

Many people who have gone no contact from a toxic, destructive relationship feel it is the best thing they have ever done, and the first time they have felt freedom from manipulation, drama and other forms of emotional abuse.

I would also suggest you read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward as a starting point as well as writing on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages. You will also get support there.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/04/2014 18:57

Re this comment of yours Squidge,

"(An early example of this is that I went on the pill aged 18 whilst in a 2 year relationship, and partly because of my periods. When I tried to talk to her about it she was very disapproving. I went to the doctor for the appointment and hey presto she was in the waiting room waiting to see another doctor?! Then she didn't speak to me for a month, even though I was still living at home. Is this normal?!)"

No, not at all.

It is not your fault your mother is like this. Her own family did that lot of damage to her. I presume as well your Dad is her enabler; people from dysfunctional families end up playing roles.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/04/2014 18:58

And remember, it’s always much easier to change your mind after deciding not to allow contact than is to change your mind after allowing it.

Dutch1e · 25/04/2014 19:56

I have a mumsnet crush on Attilathemeerkat after lurking the Stately Homes thread so my first advice would be "exactly what Attila said."

My second piece of advice is not to JADE. That stands for Justify Argue Defend Explain (an acronym from the american babycenter board that deals with toxic parents). In other words, don't get involved in those weird conversations that consist of sighs and hints.

"Will the children come to us this summer?"
"No. How's the weather there?"

Next time it's hinted at... "You're hinting at the children coming to you. We had this conversation. Change the subject or I am hanging up." And mean it. The world does not end if you say to a bully "I warned you I would hang up. Goodbye." Click

It may be that your mother just needs a few assertive 'smacks on the nose' to remind her that you are a grown woman with her own family (not ONE family, meaning HER family, but your own family that she may or may not be around depending on how well she toes the line).

It may be that her poor treatment of you is so entrenched that you will need to go through a process of limiting contact until you get to a point where NC is the happiest and healthiest option for YOU. And it's you that really matters here. You are not responsible for another adult's emotions. That's what they have friends and partners for. If guilt is a big part of your relationship with your mother, it's a bad relationship.

The third piece of advice I will give is that it's rare to meet other people in real life who have had to cut a parent out of their life. Most people have imperfect but basically loving parents and truly cannot get their head around a mother-daughter NC situation. I envy these people and I am happy for them. However, I let their well-meaning advice roll off my back. As much as we all love a happy ending, their advice is based on a fundamental belief that a mother loves her child and truly wants the best for that child.

Basing your reactions on that belief is often a good thing... but in some cases, like mine and prrhaps like yours, it's very fucking dangerous. Especially if you have children because then it's not only your own jugular you're exposing, it's theirs too. Trust your body - if your belky is in knots and your shoulders are hunched when you are around your mum, it's a bad place for you to be.

Lastly, it's ok to be the uppity bitch. The one who doesn't call, doesn't return calls, hangs up, slams the door in her face, tells her messengers to fuck off, tells her to fuck off.... After years of tip-toeing around her PA self, becoming a nasty grumpy cow can be liberating. And some of us will be cheering for you with champagne in hand!

SquidgeOps · 25/04/2014 20:14

Thank you so much for the replies so far. OMG though Dutch1e, I love your post. But as I read it I was simultaneously reading it and thinking "I couldn't possibly say that to my mum" and imaging how awful she would think I was.

Once she called me "pure evil". I was 6 months pg with second DC. First DC was 18 months old. He was born 13 days late via emergency c-section after 5 days' induction. He was 9lbs 8oz. I was devastated to have a c-section. I couldn't talk about it for a year after. I never considered that I would one. I have size 10 feet and my whole adult life she told me I would have babies no problem. I stupidly bought into this.

So, DH was working away at the other end of the country Monday to Friday. DM had come to look after DC1 and I had a consultant appointment to discuss the birth of DC2. I so badly wanted to try a VBAC. There was no reason anyone could figure out as to why I could not have DS1 vaginally. But in this appt the doctor told me I should book in for an elective. He brushed off all of my well researched questions. I came out of the appointment, locked myself in the maternity ward loo for 15 minutes and sobbed my heart out. Midwives were knocking on the door. It was awful.

I called my DH who was as I said working up north. I sobbed to him and explained. I drove home. Unknown to me he, knowing how my DM doesn't listen/doesn't understand/doesn't try to see things from my POV, called my DM to warn her that I was very distressed and upset at being strong advised to have an elective. He was trying to be helpful. He wanted her to be supportive. He was aware he couldn't be there for me so he needed her to be.

So, I walked in the door, still sobbing, to be told basically to pull myself together. She didn't understand. She said "but your SIL has had three c-sections and she was fine with it" and generally unhelpful stuff like that. What I actually needed was a hug, and for someone to LISTEN. They may have been irrational thoughts, but they were MY thoughts at that moment. I asked her to leave, very politely in the circs ("please can you just go, I really can't talk about this at the moment"). DS1 was there. She wouldn't leave. In the end I raised my voice and shouted, "please will you just go". She called me pure evil and left.

(I now know that the main thing was that my boys were born happy and healthy - I tried a VBAC with DS2 but that also ended up in an emergency c-section).

I should add to that they see ME as always causing problems. I have this huge issue with being unfairly judged. So every now and then I will be confrontational when I feel they are being all snidy. This c-section upset they would have seen as me being difficult/making a drama out of nothing. Which feels all very unjust to me.

I struggle to think of my mum as a bad person and I don't want to hurt her. But I realise I have a long way to go regards seeing things for how they are.

OP posts:
SquidgeOps · 25/04/2014 20:23

Someone said about my dad being an enabler. My dad is actually a very angry uptight person. Not violent but aggressive.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/04/2014 20:53

"I struggle to think of my mum as a bad person and I don't want to hurt her. But I realise I have a long way to go regards seeing things for how they are".

You do because you have also been conditioned to think that by them of them, this is also why I suggested the book called "Toxic Parents".

Many now adult children of such parents are under immense FOG with regards to their parents; fear, obligation, guilt.

How dare your mother call you evil; she is the wicked one here and has her uptight aggressive H to boot and watch out for her no doubt. He would likely take her side. I would stay well away from these people; it is no wonder to me at all that you are considering going no contact with them. I would go no contact with them as of now. They have not and do not bring anything at all positive into your lives.

Dutch1e · 25/04/2014 21:20

My heart goes out to you. Especially when I read your first two lines about first, saying those things and your mum feeling you were awful then, second, how she called you "pure evil."

It's a sad and ugly realisation to have - that no matter what you do your own mother already thinks you're awful.

And it has nothing to do with who you are, the things you say, or how hard you try... there is something in her that decided you were awful (maybe when she was pregnant, maybe when you were 4 and asked interesting questions that she hadn't thought of, maybe when you were 12 and beginning to look like a woman she would have to compete with)... but it was never YOU. She doesn't know YOU and doesn't care to.

There are people in your life who do know you and love what they see. You know who they are. You probably gave birth to two of them :)

Anyone who doesn't see you like that is not safe for you to be around. Even if that person gave birth to you.

Sometimes, when a good friend asks about me my mum I tell them this: If my leg had 1,000 cuts in it I would try to heal. If those cuts became infected, I would still try to heal. If it came to the point where that leg developed gangrene, I would have a choice: Cut it off, be devastated, grieve and do the best I could with one leg... or let the gangrene spread and die.

Personally, I'm a pretty good one-legged dancer. My real family holds me up, know what I mean? And when you've been trained from birth to avoid confrontation (because your entire security depends on it) it's pretty liberating to say "Thank you for the good things, and fuck you forever for the shit that no child should have to carry."

Dutch1e · 25/04/2014 21:39

PS: I wish I could have been your mum at that appointment. I would have given that doctor a moutful about VBACs, patient relationships, and good old-fashioned humanity before giving you a big warm hug followed by a cold gin and tonic.

I have an almost 20-year-old daughter. All a grown-up girl/woman wants is a listening ear and a defender. Love just isn't that hard is it? :(

SquidgeOps · 26/04/2014 20:28

The shit has really hit the fan today in terms of me finally realising that I just have to deal with this issue from my childhood, and talk to someone about it.

My brother abused me when I was about 8, sexually. I think for a couple of years. He is 2.5 years older than me. It was full sex at times. I don't remember how it started, and I don't remember how it ended. I don't remember him actually forcing me in terms of holding me down and I feel bad saying he abused me. He was young too. I find it hard to accept he knew what he was doing. Once during a family get together my cousin who I think was about 4 years older than me also got involved (not full sex).

Once my mum walked in (we shared a bedroom) and we were both semi naked (not doing anything). She said "I don't know what's going on but it doesn't look very nice" and she turned around and walked out. It wasn't mentioned again. The impact of her not getting to the bottom of what was going on is not lost on me.

I've only ever told two people. My first proper boyfriend whom I was with from 16 to 20. He badgered me about who I lost my virginity to. In the end I caved and told him. I told DH about 5 years ago after a family row. I told my best friend today. My overriding emotions are shame and disgust. I look at my DCs (same gender) and they're the ages we would have been at the time and it's horrific. But in many ways I have learnt to accept that it happened and I can't change it. In a way I think we were kids - it must happen sometimes, surely.

But it makes it very very hard to be an active member of my family. That's not the whole reason why we don't all get on - my mum has not been the sort of mum that I hoped I had had. I want to opt out of family life really. But I feel I can't. They don't let me. The guilt is too much. And it would be unfair of me to leave/disappear without them knowing about this, but there is no way I would ever, ever tell them. It would tear the family apart. (Plus I'm remembering the time I turned up aged 27 on Christmas Eve early evening covered in mud with ligature marks around my neck after my then boyfriend who was very drunk tried to strangle me on the ground down a dark country lane. My dad's reaction was to be cross because I had disturbed the peace at their house).

Plus as I said I don't see my brother as the villain. He's not a monster. He was a child too. We hung out together in the following years and our early 20s with a group of friends as we grew up in a small village. We never discussed what happened.

My family is dysfunctional. It's hard to finally realise that. They are not deliberately evil though. Just different to me. I think. I don't know how to go NC. Not in terms of the actual mechanics of it (although I found the reply regards how you actually do it very enlightening). But how you actually do it without feeling any sort of guilt, or worry that something awful might happen to them and you might regret it forever. But as I said in an earlier post, they won't allow me the space I need (for example, insisting the children go and stay when they have put no effort into building a relationship of any meaning with them and the children don't want to go and bloody well stay).

How do I do it in that sense, without divulging the pain and shame I have carried for over 30 years? Or how do I have some sort of a relationship but keep them at arms length when they badger me so much.

Thanks for reading and sorry if the subject of this post offends anyone.

OP posts:
mummytime · 26/04/2014 20:43

Please read the book.

Maybe this website can help.

I think there has probably been a lot more highly dysfunctional things happening in your family. They are NOT safe people for your children to be with.

SquidgeOps · 26/04/2014 20:45

I'm sorry, I can't think straight. Which book?

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page