Just don't know what to do...

[Tillpotsmum]

Hi everyone. Sound impartial advise needed - please!

I'm 47 my husband is 46. We've been married for 17 years this year, but together for 9 prior to marriage, a long time together!

Over the last two or three years he's become increasingly less interested in me, I'll be honest I can't remember the last time he said he loved me, you know I don't think he ever has! He's not the emotional type, not with me anyway, none of his family are - sure they can shed a tear, but I feel it's always the crocodile variety.

Things have become increasingly bad since Christmas, one or two family things happening along the way have probably put extra pressure on our relationship anyway, and this can be forgiven and worked around, but even so, things I feel are now at the bitter end.

My New Years resolution, kept quietly to myself - you never kiss me goodbye when you leave for work, so I'm no longer to make the first move. You never tell me you love me, so I'm not going to say it anymore either, and rightly or wrongly so, I've stuck to it.

Sex is always a very roll-on, roll-off affair, even when I try to spice things up, yet he's badgering me to visit certain "clubs", which I have no desire to - he finds this very strange.

My birthday, early March, he told me twice on the day that he thought I no longer wanted him, he would therefore leave. I cried and ignored him. He said it again on Wednesday this week to which I replied "I sometimes think it wouldn't be a bad idea if you did go..." To which he replied that I never put my arms around him, the slanging continued with me telling him that he never told me he loved me. Whenever we have words he has the ability to make it my fault, whatever happens, even mundane things like an outside organisation double booked something for us, today as it happens, but it's my fault!

Only advice I have sought so far is from my mum, naturally she's "on my side" and says she has noticed a difference with him too. She no longer "likes" him and says she will be supportive if I leave. Unfortunately she can't accommodate me and my two children, she lives with her partner (my mum's a widow)in a two bed apartment.

He's become selfish and has an obsession with work and money, to the extent that when I was rushed into hospital two years ago he asked my mum to "keep him informed" - this is was I was lying in a HDU bed!

I'm financially dependent on him which is one of my main issues that prevents me from walking away. If I had my own income, the way I feel as I write this now, I would just leave. I don't want the house, the possession, I want to be happy and I want to smile again.

I scared of leaving, but I know it's what I must do - I have two teenage children, my DD said to me last week she would rather us be apart and smiling rather than together and unhappy, so clearly the children must be aware of what is happening.

Any advise would be so much appreciated.

I'm sorry to hear you are going through problems. Could you go for counselling? Is there any way you could address the financial dependence? Retraining, a college course? Could you apply for any jobs?
What are these 'clubs'?
Could you have a trial separation?
Perhaps some wiser souls who have been through similar to you will come on and give some advice soon.

I'd suggest that you get some detailed information to help you put things into context and sort out your thinking. By which I mean researching your legal position with a solicitor (some offer free consultations) or CAB, and getting some advice on finances, accommodation and the other practical things that seem to be keeping you trapped. You say you don't want possessions or a house which is very noble but you can't live on fresh air and a bit of knowledge can be very liberating.

Once you've got your background information and you're a little more confident about an alternative future you may want to use it to have a more hard-hitting 'last chance' conversation, or you may find a plan naturally forms, in which case you simply present it to your DH as a fait accompli. I'm glad your Mum is supportive but amused that you add 'naturally'. You'd be surprised how often family urge miserable people to stay miserable :)

I don't know what these clubs are but it doesn't sound as if you are sexually compatible. Leading on from this, could there be someone else who shares his sexual proclivities?

It seems as though he wants to split but either hasn't got the balls to say so or wants to make the split your fault. His behaviour on your birthday was shitty & the HDU stuff makes it clear that you are not his top priority.

If the only thing stopping you from leaving is money then deal with that obstacle. Make an appt at the CAB (free) & they can work out if you would receive any benefits or help anywhere. Otherwise you could work?

It sounds as if you have both detached emotionally from your relationship & I'm glad that you are arguing & standing your ground as it shows he hasn't ground you down. Make preparations to leave as when you are prepared its so much easier & less daunting than the idea of doing so. Then you know where you stand & if you choose to go you have a clear path ahead of you.

Time to call it a day, and what clubs exactly, do you think he's leading a double life?

He's a grubby sounding man. Clubs indeed.
I'm not against clubs... but I firmly believe couples should only go if they have a good sex life together, and both want something more. Clubs should not be used if sex is rubbish without.

I agree with those saying to sort out where you stand legally, for your own knowledge, decision making, and protection.

Do NOT walk away from possessions and assets. Pension sharing, for example, if as a couple you decided that his working life and financial opportunities would be prioritized over yours. Please - there's no point in being "noble", trust me, it won't make for an easier split. These are YOUR possessions and assets too.

Once you're clear on how you would manage a split, then you're in a much better position to decide whether you want to split or try again.

Thanks fir your reply. I am currently seeking work, I know I must re-enter the job market.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply.

In my heart (and my head) I know you are all right - I know I need to seek out help that will tell me, factually and legally, where I stand... I have taken steps to find work and at this moment in time I will do more or less anything that does not interfere with being here for the children, by that I mean that I am happy to work full time (9-5) as long it's local and I can be home shortly after 5, but clearly like most mum's, I would leap at the chance of part time, guess I'll just have to see what comes along.

I am just so very scared, not scared of being alone, I've said for the last few years that I may as well be on my own, as he's never here. Leaving the house at shortly after five in the morning and, like now, not coming home until eight at night. I'm scared of the fight that I know I will have, the screaming match that will undoubtedly ensue and the battle that I will have in terms of general separation. I know that everything will be my fault.

I know that when the time comes, and it won't be too far away, he will make life very awkward. After being with someone for 26 years in total I think you get a pretty good idea of what they are like. He's stubborn and awkward, I have avoided using the word before now, but I believe he's a bully, certainly with me - I gave up my career five years ago bowing to pressure from him, the worst days work I ever did!

The sex side of things -I'm not frigid, or at least I don't think I am! It's just so one sided and Victorian, as long as he's happy sort of thing... the clubs - heaven knows why he wants to frequent these places.

I think "onetiredmummy" summed it up, I am not his top priority. My mum said similar last week, stating to me that he needed a secretary, not a wife!

Deep breath, big sigh!

Well, the weekend saw two "straws that broke the camels back", as it were. Friday evening I burnt my arm on the grill, a regular catch yourself on the oven trick, I'm sure everyone's done it from time to time... it stings like hell and you're left with a "brand" - this one's about an inch and half long. What did my husband do - laugh, thought it was highly amusing - that was straw number one.

Second. His father, who is elderly, has just inherited a house which my husband in full on money-making mode, has decided should be rented out. I was drafted in to clean the oven and kitchen yesterday. The oven was in a horrendous state - I reckon I was in that kitchen, on my hands and knees, head in oven, fridge and cupboards for at least four/five hours. He didn't even look at what I'd done - and the "thank you" was addressed to the children who had sat and waited patiently while mum did the work. He was messing around outside with something or other.

Last night, after stewing about what I'd done and taking everything else into account, I asked him to leave. A few words were uttered, of course in normal fashion it was all turned around, my words changed for his own benefit and I am told that it's all my fault! I didn't expect anything else. He said he would go, but didn't. Instead, he came to bed and said he loved me... a little too late after nearly 17 years or more of waiting to hear him say it.

Words are cheap, I know, and need to be followed up with actions, but I feel that even so, it's too late. He's single handedly killed our marriage.

My teenage children spoke with me this morning, they said they heard me crying last night. They're not stupid, they know what's going on. My son, who is coming up to 15, said that dad has changed over the last couple of years. My daughter, who is 13, said that when I pop in her room at night to say "good night", I always say "I love you," she said that dad never says that if he does the bedtime routine. Maybe he can't, maybe he's devoid of any loving emotion - who knows?

I am waiting for CAB to open, I need to know where I stand. I'm still happy to walk away from everything, I know I shouldn't.

Not a great weekend for you and the dc but sometimes incidents like those make things clearer in your mind. This empty house sounds like a golden opportunity to me - get him to move into there ASAP on a temporary basis, trial separation if you like, just get him out if you can. It sounds as though your children are as unhappy as you. Good luck at the cab, I hope they can give you some practical advice that will make you feel more confident in making these changes that will clearly make you and your dc much happier in the long run.

Your situation virtually mirrors what mine was. Even to the point where the kids had said we'd be better off apart. Sometimes couples just realise that after the common interest of having children together, there's nothing left.
It's a bit of a wrench to walk away but only because you're heading into the unknown and out of your 'comfort' zone. I'm still in limbo a bit tbh but I know it was the best thing to do.

Tillpotsmum, just wow, he sounds like an utter creep. So sorry for you. Not that you need my pity because you sound very strong and brilliant. Hopefully CAB will help you with lots of practical information. I'm sure you do feel like walking away with nothing right now, but you and your children need financing and he has a responsibility to provide it.

It's often the little stuff that finally makes your mind up about someone. Your children sound like they've been aware of the problems for some time. I'm not sure an inability to say 'I love you' means that someone is devoid of love. I think it means they are insensitive to the feelings and needs of others, however. Like the missing 'thank you' for scrubbing ovens.

Would repeat earlier advice about not just walking away from it all. If you don't want to enter into a pitch battle over money that's quite understandable but you have to secure a fair share for the sake of your future and that of your children. You have a part claim in that property you were scrubbing, for example. Once you are apart from him and the raw emotion has subsided, I think you'll feel a lot less charitable.

Thank you all so much for your comments and words of support.

I'm sat her with red eyes have just chatted to an incredibly supportive friend.

Husband thinks he's trying hard, but regretfully the he's also so hard with it, already snapped at me at 5.30am this morning because, half asleep, I told him an appointment was today, rather than tomorrow, I was only just out of bed and still figuring out what day it was!

He came home with flowers last night, hideous ones at that, he knows I hate the colour orange, well at least I think he does, after being together for 26 years I would hope so! I didn't look at the card attached until just now, I really didn't care last night. Anyway, opened the card and was stunned to find "To xxxx lots of love from xxxx" Exactly what you might write in a birthday card.

Maybe I'm expecting too much? I don't know any more! I feel today is the day when I will plunge to rock bottom. If it wasn't for my children not having a roof over their heads I really would just go! The man has changed completely in the the last five years, or maybe I have - who knows? What I do know is that I feel totally unloved, there is no appreciation for anything I do. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect a thank you for every little job I do, but an occasional peck on the cheek would be good.

He said last night he was going to book us in for counselling. I think the counseller will have a laugh when I reel off the amount of time I've spent alone, five in the morning until nine at night, because work comes first. When I tell him, or her, about the jolly's he's been on with mates and I've been left at home or to take and fetch to the airport. The business trip I was invited on (would have been a chance of a lifetime for me) but then dumped at the last minute in favour of a female colleague, the forgotten 40th Birthday - oh, the list goes on and on...

Well, Tuesday, here I am - do your worst!

I don't think you're expecting too much really. I think what you're experiencing is the end product of many years of mild disappointment about being increasingly taken for granted which has gradually built into irritation and now resentment. Maybe there's been no big crisis - no affair or similar - but it's the marital equivalent of 'drip drip' water torture.

In short, 25 years of being neglected is not going to be fixed with a bunch of flowers and a cursory card. His 5.30 am 'snap' shows that any promised changes are likely to be short-lived. You may feel you need to give counselling a go and some people are not able to call time until they can say they gave everything a try. You may even find seeing his reactions in a counselling session strengthens your resolve to quit. But no, I don't think your expectations are ambitious.

So don't take a sword to a gunfight. Have that session with a solicitor anyway.

Glad you came back here OP, wise words from Cog above as always. If you do feel you should give counselling a go, by all means do so but as cog says don't let that stop you seeking advice on separating etc, literally knowledge is power in this case. I went through something similar a while back and started to mentally and practically prepare for the worst case scenario and it made me feel so much stronger. Even down to silly things like paying off the kids school trips in full rather than continuing the instalments and buying them school shoes/coats ahead of time etc, things that I might struggle to pay for on my own. I know that it sounds a bit odd but it did genuinely help me feel better prepared and more in control. Take care of yourself, we're here if you need us

Just thought I'd post a little update.

Well, my tears have stopped, almost. I had a weep to my dad this morning after I told him what's happened. He's in his 80's and I had avoided telling him before now. He says he will "stay out" of any situation but has also offered any support he can give.

We went to see the marriage guidance counsellor last night and I have to say I was very surprised, not at all what I was expecting. I feel she was completely impartial, which is good, although she did look at me and smile when nobody could get a word in edgewise as my husband spouted forth about him, him, him and his problems!

At the end of the one hour session he had agreed and acknowledged that he has neglected me and his family. I had said what I want, that I want to feel loved and appreciated.

We talked about the lack of emotion shown and she offered husband the opportunity for one to one counselling to address the issues that he clearly has and, last night, finally admitted to.

Amongst many questions and discussions she asked us where we see the marriage going. He said he wanted it to stay together, I said I think it is broken.

So, where to now... He has tasks/targets - these are to make time for me and for us. My target, to go along with what he suggests.

Let's see what happens before we see this lovely lady again. My gut feeling, if he does change it will be short lived. I can't see the changes that are needed or required happening for any length of time, but I have agreed to let him try, at least.

Thanks again for your support.

Well, ten days on from last post and following marriage guidance support I still feel no further forward. I wish my gran was still with us - she'd know what to do!

He's making a sort of effort but I feel the damage runs too deep and has gone too far... in short, I really don't love him anymore. He puts his arm around me, in bed, and I cringe. He's booked us a break, in August, but it's what we had planned to do anyway (kids are away on their own). He's not stuck to what he agreed to in the last counselling session, that is the time away from work that he said he would do.

I need a fairy god-mother... Seriously, if it wasn't for the children, I'd be gone.

I think you're at the point where you have to be honest with him and upgrade your 'I think it is broken' from the counselling session to 'it is definitely broken and it's over'. It's going to be a very sad transition whatever you do but I think it's unfair, verging on cruel, to keep letting someone carry on trying when you know there's no point.

Your gran can still tell you what to do. I bet if you listen now you'd know what she would say.

We always know what we should do, just sometimes it's very hard to actually take that step.

Positive thoughts for you.