Not the stereotypical bi/lesbian.....why do people have a problem accepting this?

[breakingtradition]

Hi

So I was thinking of posting this on the gay/lesbian board, but to be perfectly honest, it's very quiet there and I thought it would make more sense to put it on here.

I'm not really sure why I'm posting, but was just wondering why most people seem to struggle believing that I have a gf and not a bf.

I get the initial surprised reaction I suppose, because I've had bf's in the past, but once I've explained that I have a gf, why do some people keep questioning me if I'm actually sure etc?

No, I don't fit the 'stereotype' of a lesbian. I'm very feminine and quite girly, but I would have hoped that once people can see that I have a gf, they'd just move on and it wouldn't be so hard for them to believe. It's like some people assume I'm in denial or something.

I remember reading something Portia de rossi said (think that's how you spell her name ) who's married to Ellen Degeneres and she was saying how she had such a difficult time just getting people to believe that she was gay, because of her appearance etc and I really related.

I think it's hard for anybody to come out, even in today's society, but I think sometimes people have kind of already guessed, simply because they do fit the stereotype and so their coming out is more straight forward?.... I don't know. I'm sure those people will say that it was just as hard to come out and of course, I can only speak from my own experience really.

One bloke actually said that it was a waste that I had a gf another woman said "how are you gay? You're the most feminine woman I know" . Am I over reacting? Or is that not really quite offensive?

I've had trouble coming out and accepting it myself and these kind of questions and comments are just making the process that little bit harder. I wish people didn't feel the need to put people into categories. I'm tired of having to explain myself.

I wish I didn't have to worry when we go out as a couple, but then I suppose all same sex couples understand that.

Would be great to hear from someone who relates.

Thanks for reading.

Sorry some people have not been accepting in your coming out.

One of my best friends had the very same problem. She had loads of boyfriends at school, is very feminine and stunningly beautiful, so when she came out a lot of people were shocked as she always had a queue of blokes wanting to date her. She is now in a civil partnership and is very happy, and these opinions seem very few and far between now that people know.

I hope you are in the same position soon.

The way I see it is that, it doesn't really matter why you're different, if you don't conform to other people's ideas of 'normal' then you end up being an object of curiosity. I've been single (quite happily) for a long time and only the other day, a chance remark from DM made me realise that she regards it as pitiable. C'est la vie

If you don't want to answer intrusive questions about anything personal, not just your sexuality, tell people to mind their own business. Meet offensive remarks with the contempt they deserve.

I can't relate I'm afraid (male, hetero the usual hang ups!).

But, people do stereotype and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it as long as they recognise that their assumptions may be wrong. It sounds like you've encountered a few who are surprised at this but I wouldn't automatically ascribe it to malicious intent, probably ignorance more than anything else. Nobody likes being wrong so they may just be projecting their own dissastifaction at being proved wrong back on to you, rather than anything specifically homophobic.

Also, as Rainicorn says if this is quite recent news to your normal social circle then it may take them a bit of time to adjust.

Are the majoirty of people you've told supportive in general?

Thanks for the replies.

keepit, I get what you're saying, but pretty much all the ignorant comments have come from people that I don't even really know. I completely understand why my friends and family would be initially surprised, but it's strangers who feel they need to bombard me with really personal questions. I was asked by a guy in a bar recently, after her saw me kiss my gf, how I would define myself. I told him that it wasn't any of his business and he said I was uptight for not answering. He was almost offended that I didn't give him an answer and said that I must be either gay, bi or just "open minded" grrrrrrrrr. I really don't think that would have happened if I looked more like he thought a lesbian 'should' look.

Oh and my close friends and immediate family were much more supportive than I thought they would be.

The guy in the bar was an arse. So what if he was almost offended? Who is he to you? You didn't owe him an explanation and 'mind your own business' the right thing to say. In fact, provided we're not breaking the law or being deliberately offensive, none of us have to justify ourselves to others for any choices we make. Sexuality being just one of them.

To be honest, I think my reaction might be similar. Not intending to offend but perhaps being surprised momentarily. I'd like to think I'd readjust my face quickly and shut up about it, but I think there would be a moment of "oh. Gosh!"

This is because out gay people haven't been visible for very long. When I was young I truly believed Elton John was straight, for example. And just as gay men first appeared in the media as stereotypical, camp, effeminate etc, lesbians have been represented by the stereotype more typically. The out lesbians I can think of in the public eye tend to be more the Sandi toksvig, Susan Calman, Claire Baldings of this world.

Keep being out and proud and you can help to beat down these stereotypes. I'm afraid it's because you are in many ways a pathfinder still.

Well it's the important people who are giving you the support then, that's good. Virtual strangers can go swivel!

Maybe it is the case that homophobia is more prevalent than I initially thought. As I mentioned before, I'm not really in a position to be able to empathise very well with you, but I would say that there are idiots everywhere and as Cog so reasonably said, if you fall out of the "norm" then you're in an "out group" and a target for all the small minded bigots out there. The chap in the pub being a classic example by the sound of things. Interesting that he said you must be "gay, bi or just open-minded", I would've thought it quite obvious that you probably fell into the normal definition of the first two (I know there's a lot of debate about these categories though) and hopefully most people would fall into the last category! I reckon he was just being a twat though.

Not sure how best to tackle them I'm afraid, except with Cog's contemptuous approach and a suitably withering look.

What an arsehole that bloke was. I think the apt response would have been "fuck off you ugly bastard" etc.

A lot of people are massive homophobes sadly. Or just idiots, who say stupid things without maybe the worst intentions but who are still out of order.

I was in Wagamama recently next to two blokes. The waitress asked them if they were brothers. One dude said "no he's my boyfriend" and she came out with the classic "Oh. You don't look gay".

I empathise with this. Two close friends of mine are lesbians, one is very very femme. Long hair, dresses in a pretty but edgy way, used to do fake tan, nails etc. If you hadn't known her you would have thought she was a wannabe WAG a few years ago. People were always surprised, even shocked when they found out she dated women.
The other friend has over the years had long hair, shaved head and everything in between and dresses in a style she described as "French boy." She looks quite feminine too but people often just read her hair and clothing and call her sir etc. She has dated men and women but reaction to her telling people she is gay varies on how she presents.

I think a lot of the stereotypes are based in people equating gender presentation with sexuality. Lesbian = butch = wanting to be masculine for a lot of people. I think it relates to a subconscious belief for a lot of people that sex/interest in sex/having sex must involve masculinity somehow.
I do think that people, especially near strangers saying you're too feminine to be gay to s potentially offensive, even if it isn't meant to be. It's putting you in a position of having to justify your sexuality because it doesn't match up to people's expectations. You don't have to do it though. Especially not to strangers!

We were discussing invisible diversity at work. I have a colleague who most people would class as slightly conservative, straight, whatever the British equivalent of the American WASP is.

She's actually left-leaning, bisexual and pagan. But because her diversity is hidden, it doesn't count.

alatelifelesbianstory.com/2014/02/21/questions-answered-you-cant-be-gay-you-are-too-feminine/

Someone else's blog on this very topic.

Well I wish more people were like you guys.

I think overall I'm more tolerant of this than my gf is. I think maybe because I believe we've all been guilty of making an assumption about somebody purely based on how they physically betray themselves. I genuinely don't mind being asked the occasional question about my sexuality and I do keep reminding myself that it's all about intent and rarely have I felt genuine hateful intent. That's certainly not to say that we haven't encounted bigoted f**ckwits , but then that's had nothing to do with me not fitting the lesbian stereotype. Their just idiots. My gf just doesn't have time for it and it much more 'out and proud' than I am. I wish I could be more like her with regards to this, but it's really hard sometimes.

I have to say, I do sometimes avoid certain places, or situations, just to avoid the looks and inevitable questioning. That's not good and it doesn't make me feel proud of myself. I feel like I'm running away.........which I suppose I am.

Bigred, Thanks for the link. Had a quick read and it sounds very interesting and of course, very familiar.

Betray themselves? Ooops! I meant portray

The thing is, I don't understand the classic stereotypes. A lesbian is a woman who likes other women, so why would all lesbians automatically be 'butch' or dress 'like men'? Surely, if you fancy a woman, you embrace the womanliness, no? So why are some people soooo shocked when a very feminine, girly woman is gay?
Same as with men, I know plenty of gay men who don't go in for the camp stereotype. They like men, as one would put it, 'real' men. Which can be a problem as they tend to fall for straight men which is annoying for them!

I maybe haven't expressed this properly but I do hope it makes sense and doesn't come out horrendously wrong.

Basically, the bloke in the bar was a numpty. Just be who you are, you don't need to justify yourself to other people or conform to a stereotype.

SeaSalt, I do actually know what you mean. I think maybe that was part of the reason it took me so long to actually realise I was attracted to women in the first place. I assumed that if I wasn't attracted to the stereotypical, butch lesbian, then I can't be bi or gay, because that's who I'm supposed to be attracted to.........if that makes any sense Then one day, it kind of hit me like a lightning bolt. I was no more not attracted to that type of woman, than I was to a certain type of man. It was almost over night that these, once shut doors, were suddenly flung open. Those 'girl crushes' that all my platonic straight girl friends had, weren't the same as what I was feeling. I finally got that I am genuinely attracted to women, but very few......just as I am with men, that's all. I guess I'm just fussy and with both sexes. As time goes on, I realise that I'm probably more compatible with women, certainly on a sexual level and so, I'm not really sure where that leaves me. Maybe that's why I was so irritated by that tosser in the bar. He'd asked me a question which I was still hadn't figured out myself.

Isn't it strange how we feel the need to label ourselves? Like it gives us more meaning or something.

breakingtradition I know the feeling in terms of stupid questions. It will get easier, but what I have learned is that it is always the 'well-meaning' ones that ask the most stupid questions.

In my 20s it was mainly people asking me what I did in bed. (To this day, I still don't know why people wouldn't be able to think of anything). Now, it's 'which one of you is the (birth) mother' or - and this one really gets on my nerves - 'how on earth did you decide which one of you was going to have the baby?'

I don't know if straight people have to contend with fewer personal questions like this. What I found helped was coming up with a few standard responses to drag out when needed. A deflection is always good. Now I tend to say I don't really want to talk about it which usually implies politely that it's inappropriate to ask, but I think you might need a stronger response!

I've found most really unpleasant questions tend to be asked in an environment involving alcohol, in bars and pubs etc. Usually British people are too reserved to say anything too bad and stop when called on it, IME, unless booze is involved.

I don't think it's a choice to be butch (or femme) in as much as it's simply how you feel comfortable. A lot of butch women I know would instinctively not feel comfortable wearing dresses and being 'girly', in the same way that a lot of men wouldn't feel comfortable wearing a dress or being girly - it's just how they feel comfortable. As one poster said upthread, it's about visibility and people only tend to notice the stereotypes which confirms them. I always think though that if it wasn't for these stereotypes, if it wasn't for the early 'out and proud' and 'visible' gay people, we wouldn't have half as much acceptance as we do now.

InOtherNews, I don't think it's a choice either. Ie, being butch, camp, femme etc. I just mean that I suppose in my case, the stereotyping (sorry to keep repeating that word ) made it harder for me to realise my own sexuality and then on top of that, after I feel like I have, it yet again, makes it hard for people to accept me.....if that makes sense.

Was out with my gf today even and we had some lunch and we were holding hands over the table and the table one down from us had a load of teenage boys ( 18 or 19 yr olds) and one of them asked if they could join in! Wtf?! Join in? With our very erotic hand holding?! We were clearly really asking for it weren't we! Then another one actually got up and sat next to me and put his arm round me. I asked him what the f**ck he thought he was doing and he told me to relax and then went back to sit down with his horny, dumb ass mates! Sorry, just so angry. Can we not just go out for a nice lunch without receiving completely inappropriate comments?! Sick of feeling uncomfortable all the time. I just want to feel at ease and enjoy being with my gf. Is that too much to ask?.....

I know this situation was a bit different to my initial annoyance, but had to off load. Sorry.

I'm straight and any questions people, especially from strangers, had about my sexuality would be met with a "none of your beeswax" type response. The arsehole in the bar just broadcasted his ignorance and knobishness, being gay, bi or whatever doesn't give others license to ask intrusive questions.

I remember being in a bar in Thailand and there was intense speculationt if the barmaid was a ladyboy. She pulled down her pants to reveal a penis and said that she was saving for an operation and said that further questions should be addressed to her face and not to her chest, which impressive as it was couldn't answer questions.

Her balls (her metaphoric ones) silenced the crowd until one Aussie chick shouted out that she should donate her genitals to charity as there was a definite shortage of them in this bar alone.