I don't know what to do. Suspect cheating but can't prove it.

[backinaminute]

Hi,

I've been with DP for 6 years and have 2 ds - 3 and 1yo. I'm so lost and have no idea what to do. I feel sick and can't stop crying. Sorry this is long.

He has form for cheating. Once, pre children I had a text from someone I vaguely know through work telling me he was 'fucking' someone he worked with. Random texter refused to answer my questions or anything. I never got to the bottom of it but everything stacked up against him but I didn't ever have any proof he was. I had had suspicions about this woman previously but everything was really good when with us when this info came out. Planning to ttc etc. I didn't want to end everything on what essentially was gossip so didn't. Pushed it to the back of my mind and almost accepted it but he continued to deny it. I told him that if I ever found out he was lying he was gone. I never have.

Last year there was a load of drama at his work. Accusations were made about him having an affair with a woman at work and someone reported having seeing them having sex. DP was devastated and distraught (like I have never seen him). Adamant that there wasn't anything in it. It was investigated and the accusations were proven to be malicious. The dates in question were 1 week before ds2 was born and 3 weeks after. The problem is that this girl had been 'popping up' for a while. I had even asked a mutual friend if she thought I had anything to worry about (before anything was all edged). Again faced a quandary as it was more gossip and I didn't have any proof. She has a really gorgeous fiancé and they are still together. We had been acquaintances and Facebook friends before. I looked at her profile yesterday and seems I've been blocked.......

Anyway that is the back story, thanks if you are still with me. This brings us to now. DP has been away for a week with his dsis to sort something for their parents. I have no doubt that he is where he should be. Her Facebook profile is full of pics and updates.

Before he went I felt that he had been a bit distant. I said that I hoped he used this time to appreciate what he has at home. This really pissed him off.

He is loving and kind. He is a great dad but works long hours. He is super friendly but doesn't have many close friends. He also isn't controlling in the least so he sometimes can be thoughtless about going off and doing things without us, because if it was the other way round he honestly wouldn't mind (for eg a week away with his dsis).

He has had whatapp for a while but doesn't use it. I said before he went that we should use it while he's away (as texts would cost). First morning he was there I went to send him a message on whatsapp to see if he got it, but I could see he had been online earlier that morning. He hadn't sent me anything and as far as I know he never uses it.

Over the week I have become more and more obsessed with checking when he's online on whatsapp. He's on it all the bloody time - not to me! He checks it when he wakes up and has been on it at around the time he's gone to bed. We've hardly used it and we've said good night earlier in the evening as I've gone to bed first.

Who the hell is he saying 'goodnight' to? I have no idea this time. I have again not got any proof but know something is 'off'.

He's back tomorrow and I just have no idea what to do. I've never checked his phone. He has a pass code that I don't know (never asked) so can't do it on the sly. I just don't know. I'm tying myself in knots with it.

I don't know what I'm asking, just need to off load and clear my thoughts. Anyone got idea what I can do to find out? Do I ask him to see his phone?

We have two tiny children and I have no idea how on earth I would cope by myself (although have managed this week). I feel sick. I love him so much. I hate this side of him. All through this he has been texting and ringing (although there is always someone there). He's told me he only has whatsapp in the apartment but he's been checking it while he's been out for meals at night.

Thank you for listening to the longest rant and ramble.

I think the problem you have is not cheating but mistrust. Whatever he's doing or isn't doing, proof or no proof, it's clear you do not trust him. For there to have been two reports of alleged affairs in the last couple of years it's either an orchestrated hate campaign of malicious gossip or he's tomcatting around. For me, option one is just too far-fetched.

So I would say forget 'proof' and instead run with the problem of mistrust because you are guaranteed a miserable life if you don't tackle that. Confront him with your suspicions, look him in the eyes, don't be fobbed off again and ask him what is he going to do to increase your level of trust. e.g. no more swanning off with his sister

I agree with Cogito. As the saying goes, "this isn't a court of law, you don't need proof".

It makes for sad reading doesn't it. DP has an answer for everything and I bet he is always the victim or just too nice for his own good.

You are so wrapped up in him but the sad thing is he plays on that and always has done.

You are here breaking your heart and when at your lowest ebb it's hard to face facts. Please don't let him walk all over you. Urge him to be honest. If he accuses you of being unreasonable or jealous tell him that he hasn't been transparent and many wives would suspect that there's no smoke without fire.

While he thinks you are too scared to challenge him he will not respect you.

Thank you so much for listening. It's embarrassing to admit that I've been such a doormat. I am wrapped up in him and I really do love him. He's made me feel better as a person than anyone I've ever been with. I am happy when he's here but it's getting clearer by the day that he has somewhere else he would rather be. I think I've had to reach a point where I was prepared to end it. I haven't been there before but I think I pretty much am now. Thing is when I speak to him or when I see him he makes it all seem that everything is fine. I think he knows something is 'up' though.

I just feel so sad and so sick. I'm looking at these two gorgeous little boys and I can't believe he would jeopardise put little family. From the outside it looks so perfect and everyone loves him. I think everyone in rl would think I'm just being paranoid.

I can't go on like this and I'm beginning to realise that now. I feel so shit that if I do end it, I am denying the boys of living with their Dad from such a young age. This is everything I didn't want for them.

I am starting to feel like my whole life is a massive lie. What the hell would I tell everyone/the boys? That he checked whatsapp regularly on holiday and that was worth kicking their Dad out. What a mess.

Who the hell is he saying 'goodnight' to? I have no idea this time.

I think your words above sum up the situation unfortunately. This is your life, if you stay with him.

It's a difficult one as all you have currently is circumstantial evidence made worse by your lack of trust for him , and rightly so as he has broken your trust previously. I think deep down if you smell a rat then your probably right.

Also just a note on the whatsapp, he has probably noticed you've logged in too, but not messaged him so may twig that your spying.

What outsiders think shouldn't deter you from making decisions. I would not be trying to justify myself if I had reached the end of a very long tether and finally snapped. This is your life he's tinkering with!

As for your little boys of course you want to protect them and provide a secure loving home. Look back OP - that mystery warning you got pre ttc and then the events of last year and now the new questions all in six years when any faithful committed partner would do his utmost to reassure you by being open and transparent and not huffing when asked to consider what he has?

Now look forward. What do you think you deserve.

Who the hell is he saying 'goodnight' to?

He isn't necessarily saying goodnight to anyone. All "online" means is that he has WhatsApp open (even if it in the background) and he is connected to the internet. It doesn't mean he is talking to anyone. I suspect WhatsApp is simply telling you what time he turns his phone on and off each day.

This is the problem. I know I don't need proof but without it I will always wonder 'if'.

It's driving me crazy. Trust is the issue, I know that. I just can't marry up the man in front of me with a person who would do that to me. That's why it's so hard. Written down in black and white I know what I would say.

This is why loss of trust is so destructive. You really don't know what you're dealing with. There is no 'type' of person that cheats or lies They don't walk around in orange jumpsuits so that we can pick them out of a crowd. They look like everyone else and are often very charming and loveable. Mistrust becomes a habit. Twitching every time a text comes in. Assuming the worst if he's out and about. Gets to the point that if he told you today was Monday you'd check the calendar. T

hat's what you have to tell him now. Previously you said 'if I ever found out he was lying...' and that's the wrong way around because it means he just has to be careful while you anxiously play detective. He has to actively restore your trust. Unlike the justice system he is now guilty until he proves innocent.

P4 no you definitely have to open what's app in order for it to register you bring 'online'. Just having it open in the background doesn't do it.

Could you leave your phone at home when you go out somewhere with him and ask to borrow his for something to see how he reacts? If he refuses to let you borrow his phone I'd be very suspicious. If he lets you, open up whattsapp and see who he's chatting to.

Honestly, I gave read and reread your OP and can't find a shred of evidence that he has been cheating. What am I missing?

A few points on whatsapp.

Firstly, I do agree that whatsapp usually only shows as online if you actually have it open. The last seen date is I think the last time you sent or read a message. I have heard however that there are ways of stopping the 'online' and last seen date showing. If you do some googling you will see references to this. So be aware that if you stop seeing him online he may actually still be online.

I do agree by the way that there are plenty of reasons from what you say to be suspicious. Trust is low for good reasons. That said, I do agree that some evidence of something would really help you and make things much more certain for you.

If you are serious about finding out you can ask him to let you see his phone without him touching it first. Pick up his phone, ask for the password and check it.

If he won't give you the password or gets annoyed or angry, I would say that you have your proof.

But what will you do about it? If you are going to stay with him continuing to deny everything, then what's the point in pushing for the truth?

He's due back today isn't he. If you don't want to cut to the chase and talk to him, all you can do is stay alert and pay attention to how he is when he is at home.

If you do talk, you don't just want bland reassurances, you want the truth.

Btw the girl you mention may still be with her 'gorgeous fiance' but cheaters are greedy, they always want extra. She could however be a total red herring so don't torture yourself wondering who potential OW could be, focus on H.

Thank you all so much. He came back. Could tell something was up straight away (after breezing merrily into the house). I asked to see his phone, he handed it straight over and have me the code. He was upset but not angry at all. Wasn't hiding anything. Said he'd been checking whatsapp when he went online to get the football scores. Read the messages and then replied when he got back at night (and had access to wifi). Seems it wasn't anything untoward.

Clearly highlights that we have some stuff to work through. He reiterated again today that he's never done anything wrong but did understand why I was like I was. Also said I could have had the pass code whenever I want. Like I say, got lots to talk through and deal with (mostly my trust issues) but he is aware that he needs to be involved too.

After all that, the end is not nigh. Thank you for your support and clearing my thoughts in the blur.

I would ask to see his phone there and then. If he refuses, you have your answer. Also, if you go onto a google and go to any random website on his phone, try to share the page. It should give you an option to share to WhatsApp. Once you click onto WhatsApp, it'll show you the first 3 people you contact the most on there.

I know you shouldn't have to do such a thing but he's always on it and you've had all the accusations from work, so you're well within your right to check. And don't allow him to fob you off by saying you can look later as he will have time to delete everything. Make sure it's when you know he has nothing to do - no excuses.

Sorry, only just read your last post. Well done for checking. Remember the code just in case.

I really hope he's being honest. Some cheaters are very cunning and others are pretty dumb, my ex being one of them!

Maybe your DP has two phones, OP.

Zombie.

Reported.

Zombie thread from 2019.