Angry DH

[InsomniaczK8]

My DH has anger issues. Always has, probably always will. He used to be a lot worse than he is now which led to a very rocky patch during the first six months that we lived together until I gave him the ultimatum get anger management/counselling or I would leave. He went willingly and made loads of progress and has been trying so hard since and although he deals with it better now sometimes he still seems so angry especially when life gets stressful which is when I need him to be calm and supportive the most. At the moment I am 21 weeks pregnant with DD2 and DD1 is 8 months old.

Yesterday he got angry with me and ended up shouting and swearing at me and storming out to work because I had apparently made him late. He works a late shift half of the week and helps out look after DD in the morning by getting up with us, changing her, playing with her and doing her breakfast because otherwise he wouldn't see her as he gets in after her bedtime. He has about 3 hours in the morning before he has to set off so its not exactly rushed. I asked him if he had 5 mins to watch her whilst I put the washing away upstairs and I think I actually took about 10 mins so he lost his temper with me. Later that morning I needed 5 mins to use the loo so put DD in her walker and took myself off. She was happy when I left her but started crying when I was upstairs. Obviously I couldn't respond immediately and as DH was downstairs he went to her but I got shouted at and sworn at again for making him late.

This morning everything was fine, no cross words at all and he seemed quite relaxed. I made the mistake of asking what time he had to be out the door when he does his early shift as I wanted to have a think about how we were going to manage the early mornings together and getting DD ready for nursery when I go back to work in May. He started ranting at me aggressively for trying to make him late by having a discussion with him when he had to get ready for work. I explained that it was only the one question and I didn't want to talk about it in full but he'd already lost his temper by then.I stayed out his way after that but he came upstairs and said he had 10 mins spare so we could chat about morning schedules/nursery, again he seemed calm. At the time I was detatching the baby monitor from our DDs wall to set up In our room as she was napping In our bed and I accidentally pulled out a little metal pin that he'd attached in the wall to the wire to keep in out the way of the cot.His face instantly changed, he shouted and swore at me for pulling the pin out, ranted at me for about 5 mins about how I always make him late and stress him out, said I should just make my own tea tonight as he didn't want to eat with me, would sleep in the spare room and wanted me out the house for the day on Sunday (his day off). When he's like this sometimes I loose my temper but today and yesterday I didn't I stayed quiet whilst he shouted and did my best not to aggravate him further.

I'm so confused and hurt. Its not normal to get so angry about such small things is it? Annoyed yes, I'm sure I am annoying at times just like he is, but angry?! Sometimes I wonder if I have lost all perspective, have i labelled him as angry from how he was in the early days and so expect it now and over react when he looses his temper? Or is this more than normal couples arguments? I hate the way he speaks to me in anger, noone has ever used the language he uses towards me in my whole life. We don't row about big things and we get on really well most of the time. We only ever fall out over little stupid things like the examples I have given and it is so frustrating as other than that our relationship is great. I am always pulling him up on his behaviour when things have calmed down and he agrees its wrong and doesn't want our DD growing up to think that is how you speak to people but it still happens. It makes me sad that he seems to have so much anger in him.

Has anyone else experienced anger issues in a relationship and had a happy ending

You got an axe to grind?

The OP is perfectly capable of deciding for herself whether LB is relevant for her or not.

And in case you haven't noticed, the AM hasn't worked. That's why she's posting.

Just interested that you use the word claptrap to describe the work of one of the foremost acknowledged experts on abuse.

Why?

When there's a habitual or entrenched behaviour pattern that causes distress within the family - and I include things like addiction - those around the person often feel they are obliged to make more allowances once it has been labelled as an illness. There is the implication that 'they can't help themselves' and the person is not responsible for their decisions. Who would be so cruel as to dump a sick man who had a problem childhood?

Abusive men can appear to be contrite when it suits. They can consciously improve their behaviour for periods of time if it achieves the right result, but will usually revert to type. The anger management treatment that appeared to be effective first time around could simply be an example of this.

In short, whatever is causing the OP's DH to behave this way, even if it is an illness, they are under no obligation to keep giving chance after chance. The OP's peace of mind is, if anything, more important than his.

So because you don't like the fact that he's regularly referenced (because he's useful) you condemn his work as claptrap?

OK.

if you had you'd have noticed the OP's DH has had AM before, and it helped, but he's relapsed and has decided to visit his GP to do something about it.

Or... he's changed his behaviour so he wouldn't be kicked out, predictably relapsed and is now acting so that he won't be kicked out again.

TBH I don't think it is reason enough.

I think you should not want to be abusive because it's wrong, not because you won't like the consequences of it if you do it.

The problem with the latter approach, is that as the likelihood of an adverse consequence recedes, you are more likely to regress to the undesirable behaviour; so when a woman gets pregnant, or develops a long term illness, is more emotionally and/ or financially dependent on you, has more invested in keeping you around, has less power in the relationship, you are less likely to stick to behaving well because the adverse consequence is less likely; whereas if you have decided to behave well because it's the right thing to do, because you are morally not entitled not to, then any of those things can happen and you will continue to behave well.

That's the difference between quick fixes and long term attitude and behaviour change. I'm not anti quick fixes as a temporary measure; but applying them to a lifetime relationship like marriage, is not a good enough option by itself IMO.

Sorry I just realised I may have implied in that post that AM is a quick fix. I didn't mean to do that, it isn't if you do it properly.

I just meant that if you only want to change a bad behaviour because of potentially negative consequences rather than because it's wrong, then that's what you're in danger of finding instead of getting to the root cause of your behaviour and dealing with it properly.

"Isn't not wanting to lose your wife and kids reason enough?"

What the aggressor wants is immaterial after a while. It's whether the victim of that aggression - the OP - is willing to keep going through the good guy, bad guy cycle over and over again, having their confidence constantly chipped away at, feeling obliged to stick around because they don't want to be seen to be walking away from a man with issues.

It's the same story with alcoholics. They apologise, promise to change, go for therapy, improve, reform, relapse, behave like arses, rinse, repeat .... and all the time there's some poor downtrodden partner in the background being told that they have to go easy on them because at least they are trying

It's a trap

A good reason would be not wanting to hurt or scare the wife and children, not not wanting to lose them.

I don't fall prey to unreasonable anger with my child because I love him and he deserves respect and a calm environment. Not because I'm afraid of losing him because my anger has become unbearable to him.

The thing is Basil, most people dont have a problem with it until they're living with someone who its affecting detrimentally.
Not sure I understand this sentence.

The marriage/kids and not wanting to lose them is often the catalyst to them realising its wrong and wanting to change.
Too little, too late, comes to mind.
Why should you realise it's wrong to hurt the people you supposedly love only when they are ready to walk out? Shouldn't you be able to see how upset they get? Shouldn't you give them the same level of respect at the very least as for other people you deal with, but don't suffer your anger?

Angry people often lash out the anger on the people they know (hope) won't leave them. Then reality kicks in. Sorry. Tough luck.

I think you should not want to be abusive because it's wrong, not because you won't like the consequences of it if you do it

this, a million trillion times. and this:

It's the same story with alcoholics. They apologise, promise to change, go for therapy, improve, reform, relapse, behave like arses, rinse, repeat .... and all the time there's some poor downtrodden partner in the background being told that they have to go easy on them because at least they are trying

As someone who lived with a man who I thought had 'anger issues' who stayed a further 3 years following my ultimatum of 'sort your anger out or leave' because 'd'H then slipped easily into victim mode 'look, I'm trying, go eeeaaassssy on me' failing to realize he never actually took 'ownership' of it, or even once apologised for the impact on me/kids of his shitty behaviour, and guess what, he slipped right back into that, too..... Reason being, it's about abusive/entitled values. I have lived it and am totally with Lweji/AskBasil/Cogito and also Lundy on this. It's about not seeing your wife as an equal. Or, in the case of my stbxh a 'person', even. I went through an awful lot of emotional oppression before realising this. I wasted so much time with a man not capable of seeing me in 3 dimensions. He showed that some more in the manner in which he sloped off with nothing to say (ever the 'victim').

I hope this is not happening to the OP.

re not seeing your wife as equal it stands to reason that this 'oops my wife and kids find that hurtful/frightening' won't work, because, someone who can not see their wife as an equal won't ultimately care, longterm.

If somebody really cared about their wife as an equal they would be horrified and shape the f*ck up.

Something that was telling in the case of my stbxh was that he did a lot of crying when I complained or pulled him up on his behaviour. But he always cried for himself not me.

Bang on handywoman! My ex would cry and cry but it was always about what HE was going to lose, what he wanted and what he wasn't going to get.

It is always about the abuser because they are so incredibly selfish. And that doesn't change. Ever.

Yeah, they are selfish. Because emotionally they aren't grown up. Wish I'd have known that before having kids with him. I think the Freedom Programme should be available in every Children's Centre.

Hi, Insomniac.
I haven't read the whole thread yet but can really relate to your OP. I have had this experience, but I am still having it, I am in the same situation as you with my DP and cannot yet tell you if there is any happy ending. What I can tell you though, is that as the children get older and understand more it will effect them more and sometimes he may lose his temper with them. This is something I didn't see coming, like you, me and DP get on fine otherwise and all is great and have always agreed on parenting. But now DS is nearing 5, DP thinks that DS should understand more, he loses his temper with him also. I have given him the ultimatum of parenting plus anger management classes or to leave - this really needs to be addressed now before your DCs are at the other end of his temper. DS, although he loves his dad immensely has developed trust issues with DP recently won't go to him when hurt/upset,etc - which breaks my heart for them both - he really needs help with this issue and if he doesn't take it now he will go as DS wellbeing comes before his. Also, you don't deserve this - but i know how hard it is when this is the only issue and it is something you feel they need help with.

Will he go back to anger management/ a different approach to anger management / refresh it all.

Am not trying to sidetrack here, but once a woman has LTB the "angry man" still gets plenty of time with DC on his own to inflict the stress and potential damage this will cause. Am not talking about DV or extreme abuse which can result in limiting contact, these Dads have a right to be with their DC. It just concerns me, and is something I am worried about in relation to my own DC, having left a man who has stress management/volatility issues.

My STBXH only sees the dc every EOW Sat/Sun. They are well used to his negative outlook and level of proactiveness (zero). I guess this amount of contact for him is easier and doesn't involve the cognitive dissonance of projecting hatred onto his wife. It's definitely win/win over here.

By separating you are protecting the children twice.

For one, they don't have to suffer his anger on a daily basis. These men don't go for 50-50 and they are likely to be on their best when seeing the children. Besides you can stop contact at any time without major upheaval.

Then, you are showing them that this type of anger is unacceptable and that you can reject people for it, that you don't have to suffer it.

You may think you can control it at home, but you can't. Even if you walk on eggshells, they will find a reason to be angry about. Or they will just take their frustrations on you anyway.

I grew up with a shouty dad. I wouldn't recommend it. I have had severe anxiety issues. He used to shout at me over extremely minor things, only I didn't realise that he was in the wrong, I thought that I couldn't do anything right and there was something wrong with me making him act like that. I had no self confidence and am still trying to get over the anxiety issues as an adult.

As an adult you have a better idea that his shouting is unreasonable and unfair. Your children will see it as normal. You have a choice whether you stay in the relationship and put up with it. Your children won't have that choice. They might think there is something fundamentally wrong with him to cause his outbursts.

Please protect them.

I don't know about the philosophical discussion of whether someone is a nice guy with anger issues, or an abusive git who uses anger as a weapon. Maybe it makes a difference to the aggressor but I'm not sure it makes any difference to the person being shouted at if the angry person won't/can't stop. You don't have to live on egg shells. It hurts.

Interested to know how things are years on?

The below post sounds exactly like my husband and would like to know how things progressed for you.

Yes he knows I walk on eggshells to try and keep the peace when he's that way out (although I am only human and sometimes loose my temper). When he's calm we can and do have really good open and in depth conversations about things we have been disagreeing over so its not like I always have to tip toe around him.

Yes he can be and is horrible when he looses his temper but its not daily and the rest of the time he is fabulous. He is loving and affectionate, very domesticated, he proactively cleans and tidys, does DIY and gardening. He is a devoted family man and is rarely interested in going out drinking or socialising without us.

I agree that it's not a nice atmosphere for a child which is why I originally gave him the ultimatum of getting help as I made it clear I didn't want a child to be around that sort of nastiness. He is more stressed out than usual as he is now the main earner because I am on MAT leave (I have always been the main breadwinner) and I think he's loosing his temper more than usual. There will always be stresses and strains in life though and it always seems tobe me thats cops for it.

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