I think I was raped. Was I? And can I talk to you about it?

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

I am a regular. I've NCd for this largely because I don't want it linked to my usual name.

I had an emotionally and physically abusive childhood/teenage years. I'm now NC with my mother because of it, and ongoing issues into adulthood. My dad died a couple of years ago. My mother was the EA one, my dad PA.

I have terribly low self esteem and confidence. Well, I had, it's got a lot better recently through counselling. I'm intelligent and professionally qualified. I've always had a sense of not being worthy. It's influenced all the relationship decisions I've ever made. When I was in my late teens and early 20s I ended up dating Big Issue vendors with drug and alcohol problems after dropping out of university because I didn't think I deserved any better. You wouldn't think it now, I live in a very nice area, I have a good job, my children go to good schools, all my friends are very respectable...

When I was 17, I went out with a friend of mine and a man tried to rape me. He was someone I'd been sitting with and talking to in the pub (I know, I know, I was underage and shouldn't have been in there anyway) but I wasn't 'drinking' because I didn't really. I had one pint and then drank coke. My memory of the whole evening is very clear and it happened nearly 23 years ago. I didn't fancy him and I KNOW I wasn't flirting with him. My friend had disappeared with the man she was talking to and I was on my own. Anyway, I left the pub to go home (no bus and a 15 minute safe walk) and this man came out with me. I was young, I didn't know what to do so I carried on.

As we walked around the side of the pub, he pulled me off the street and into this little alcove type thing around the back of the pub and tried to rape me. I managed to get away and he caught up with me. He said he "admired" my "strength" and insisted on walking me home. So I let him. I just wanted to get home and didn't know what else to do. I didn't tell anyone because I knew my mother would blame me. She was very clear that men only rape women because of the signals women send out, i.e. by what they're wearing, by being out, by drinking...

Until about 6 months later when out of nowhere I was supposed to be going to my boyfriend's house and I couldn't leave the house. I was 'fine' but physically couldn't get through the front door, started crying and broke down. My mother wasn't especially sympathetic and so, out of desperation, I told her what had happened. She reacted as I expected and told me "that's what men are like" and if I want to go out I have to "expect that sort of thing to happen". I shouldn't have been in the pub in the first place and that's what happens to girls who talk to men in pubs - "what did you expect?". It wasn't initial anger/panic talking. After my 'telling off' it never got mentioned again.

FFW a few years - "dropped out" of university for unrelated reasons (although related to my mother), dated a range of unsuitable men I had no expectations of whatsoever (as detailed above), yet, was treated kindly and respectfully by all of them (of course, it's relative).

Then I met my son's father. He was my best friend's brother. I'd not known her very long (6 months) when she went on holiday with her mum and they asked me to go and visit her brother to 'keep him company' while they were away. I was 22 he was 24. So I did. And he had a friend there. We watched a couple of rubbish horror films, had dinner, played on the guitars for a bit and messed around on the computer. Nothing more. Then, and I'm not sure how it happened, but he was coming onto me. I resisted and told him I wasn't interested. I was very clear it was a No. Then he asked me why exactly I'd gone round there if I wasn't prepared to have sex with either of them. And so I told him his mum/sister had asked me to go round there to keep him company and he persisted. I kept saying no. By now, he was on top of me on the bed while his friend was on the computer in the corner. And he gave me the choice of him or his friend. But it was clear that it was Hobson's Choice. Not having sex with either of them wasn't an option. So I 'let' him - or rather, I stopped resisting. He didn't even take my knickers off.

My self worth was so fucked up that about 6 months later we ended up getting together for a couple of years and my son was the result. He dumped me when I was 8 months pregnant partly because I embarrassed him by being 'fat' and partly because he'd met someone else.

I then married someone I didn't love and who didn't love me, but did care about me, because I didn't think I was worthy of being loved and I didn't know what a proper relationship looked like.

I don't know what I want from this. I've never told anyone. I just feel very ashamed of myself. Ashamed that I had such low self worth that I allowed it to happen. Ashamed that my boundaries were so fucked up that I couldn't see that it was 'wrong' at the time. Ashamed that I had a relationship with this man afterwards!

I'm a very different person now but I feel so guilty for how I let the me I was be treated. I'm still having counselling, but I'm too ashamed to bring this up.

Sorry that was long.

I didn't post on this thread before but have lurked. I've been thinking a lot about the things you've articulated op because they chime so much with me. I was born in 1984 and grew up in the 80's, 90's and 00's and had similar experiences. I've posted about much of it before on MN.

It always strikes me really how little help and support there is for women who have been subjected to systematic abuse who don't necessarily fit into the 'childhood abuse' category. There seems to be help for rape - although it has never seemed to be right for me and help for domestic abuse which has been great for certain purposes, but I find I'm living with serious long term consequences of abuse in childhood (pa, ea) and long term sexual abuse as a vulnerable person by numerous of my peers from age 11 till 24 for which there doesn't seem to be any help, I've just been sent for cbt which is frankly insulting, I need to deal with the trauma not learn how to pull myself together. I can do that very well, just need help getting over being hurt.

And I also wish I'd spoken up. But my mother doesn't believe in reporting things and also articulated short skirt=asking for it views so I'm sure I got that form there. I also once called the police after xp assaulted me and they pressured me not to take it any further as it was minor. If they'd bothered to take it seriously they probably would have discovered that he had raped me 1 month previously (getting me pg) and had been sexually abusing me pretty much the whole 3/4 years I was with him.

I did speak up in school actually. Told the teachers I was being regularly sexually assaulted by a boy in class. They did nothing about it. I ended up walking out of lessons when he did it.

Offred I remember reading some of your posts before .

I was thinking about this whilst lying in bed this morning. My mother's attitude towards it all really affected me and I've realised it's just one more way in which her responses have impacted on me.

When was 10 I did judo. The instructor used to lie on top of us to demonstrate the moves and kiss us. I can still remember his weight and his breath, his wet lips and his moustache... He used to make very inappropriate comments about some of the older girls who were developing and one girl in particular who was quite 'busty'. He used to slap me on the bottom when I had someone else in a hold. I did tell my mum and she scoffed and said, "he wouldn't do that, don't be so ridiculous." She still made me go.

Then one evening when we'd got home, another girl's mum phoned up and said, "Has Just ever said anything about XXX at Judo..." and this mum told my mum that her daughter had that evening told her very much the same as I'd said and her response was to withdraw her daughter straight away. When it came from this other mother who said she wasn't going to send her daughter any more, my mother didn't send me again either. But my word wasn't good enough. It was only when someone else didn't like the idea of it happening to her daugher, that my mother reacted.

I can cope with the idea of her not wanting to 'make a fuss'. I think that is what it was like in those days (that was mid 80s) but I can't get over her happily putting me in that same position week after week and mocking me when I told her.

I haven't mentioned any of this stuff in counselling, but I think that, through counselling, I'm starting to make connections that I hadn't made previously.

I think you're right about a lack of support. I wonder what it was that informed it really.

I do think things have changed/are changing for girls now. But not enough. And it doesn't help us...

This is probably honestly the place that I've found the most support, on mumsnet, also this thread has been particularly helpful for me. It is very helpful to read that others have experienced similar things and have also been left with similar feelings.

I think it is interesting that we've both been sexually abused during a formative time 10/11. I have often thought, about myself, that although virtually everyone I've spoken to thinks this is not a big deal because he was also 11 (although I've found out there was sexual abuse in his family and his brother was later prosecuted for abusing children) the effect, because it was during a formative period, for me was massive and really affected how vulnerable I was to further abuse and my expectations of sex.

I think your counselling is opening up your thinking about the past and it's not surprising these experiences have started to bother you. Your counsellor is giving you opportunities to share your thoughts and describe what happened, but a good counsellor won't assume or ask you directly 'were you raped?' If you have a trusting relationship with this counsellor, start to tell him more. He will listen and enable you to work your way through what happened, and should 'dust you down' before the end of each session so you go away to think but not to feel traumatised all over again. Better out than in, and done in a safe place within counselling. It should help you share these experiences with your DH. Good luck for the future.

OP thanks for posting this. This really struck a cord with me. I was brought up with a father who was physically and mentally abusive. The way abusers are often depicted is often very one sided. I know that sounds like an odd thing to say but hear me out! My father was abusive when he lost his temper. My parents argued for most of my childhood - although there were happy times. When he was calm - he was a loving, kind, warm and supportive father. When he was capable of being manipulative, unkind, offensive. We are have different aspects to our personality - he wasn't one thing all the time.

I grew up unconfident, insecure, unloved in desperate need of consistency - but I was drawn and attracted to the opposite of that. I grew up - adult in some ways - able to deal with complex situations, did well at school. But at the same time I was completely sexually naive. I didn't even start thinking about boys in that way until meeting my boyfriend aged 17. Prior to that, I had no interest in sleeping with anyone or kissing them.

When I was 16, I went over a male's friends house. He tried to be playful with me (trying to move across on top of me) whilst I was sitting on the edge of his bed playing the guitar. In hindsight, that was a stupid thing to do. But because I was so naturally trusting and asexual - I didn't think anything of it. I sat on my sisters bed playing guitar and female friends house chatting without problems, why would this be different? I just went over to play guitar!! I wasn't even thinking of him or anyone in that way. As soon he did that, I felt an immediately uncomfortable and in danger. I left and never spoke to him again. He probably was thinking why did she come over my house then?

At 17, I met my boyfriend and for a few months it was bliss. Then we started arguing and he started to become mentally and physically abusive. It started with him physically moving me out of the way in an argument, then into shoving - then punching. Our relationship was toxic - we brought out the worst in each other. I was not blameless in the relationship, at times I provoked him in an argument. I was very emotionally unstable at the time.

At 18, I found myself pregnant - he started dating a 15 year old he met online behind my back. He ignored me until I had a abortion. I was so desperate to be loved. but relationship was stuck in a cycle of lust and desperation when he withdrew and started rejecting me. After 3 months of withdrawing from our relationship, the night I came home from hospital, he treated me like a princess. And stupidly we made love again. For those who have self worth and were brought up in a stable childhood, that might seem unforgivable and completely stupid and irresponsible to do. And I agree it was - but at the time, he was the only thing good in my life. My parents had both remarried at that point, my dads new wife didn't want me or my sisters to be at home because 'this is now my house' and she was trying for a baby with my dad. My mum had moved into her new husbands house and there wasn't any room was me to stay in. This relationship had to work - I had no money and no where else to go.

On my 19th birthday, we went out to celebrate with some friends in town. We'd both been drinking, I was never a heavy drinker but he was very, very drunk. We started kissing and making out. It was early hours, maybe 3am at this point and we were both lying by the side of a quiet residential road. He was withdrawing from our relationship again and I was besotted with him. We started having sex, but I was uncomfortable and vulnerable being outside and afraid of being run over. I asked him to stop and he ignored me. He didn't even acknowledge me. I asked him again and started pushing at his arms and legs for him to let go. He didn't stop. I didn't have the strength to push him off. At this point I was ashamed, crying, looking into his eyes and asking for him to stop. Everything just went cold - at this point I just tried to blank what was happening out of my mind.

Luckily, a man from a neighbouring house came out with a torchlight came out and asked us if we were OK. I said I was OK because I didn't want him to call the police. Thankfully, he stopped and I walked home alone. I told him the day after what happened, and at first he said he didn't remember - then he said he thought I was doing the 'no means yes' and he didn't think i actually was telling him to get off :/ I asked him what he thought i mean't when I was crying and trying to push him off. He repeated that he thought I was saying no but really meant yes. I buried my feelings and convinced myself that I must have misunderstood the situation and that it must have been my fault for not being more clear.

I spent 2 more years trying to fix an unfixable relationship. In that time I learnt that most if not all the things my instinct were trying to tell me about him - that he was cheating on me, that he had lied to me, that he had provoked me, that he had purposefully tried to make me think I was going mad to cover his tracks, that he was withdrawing love - particularly when he was cheating on me - were all proven true in the end. Despite his consistent and concerted effort to make me feel like I was worthless and his belief that I was misunderstanding things .. he couldn't deny emails from other women, ex gf setting their relationship status as 'we dated sometime in20xx when i was actually in relationship with him at the time... The truth eventually outs.

What I'm trying to say - is that it's complex. In hindsight now, I'm ashamed of that relationship - of the things that happened in it, how I could be so naive, so easily manipulated, how i could be confused about what happened?

But you have to realise that you are the sum of your experiences. You are who you are because of your upbringing but also the vast amount of experiences you've had in your life.

I didn't learn from my upbringing what a proper relationship should look like. I ended up with a toxic relationship like my parents. I know better now. I'm married to wonderful man who I have been with for nearly a decade now. I know what real love feels like now. I have self esteem, I have confidence. I am able to trust and I am not as naive as I was.

Just because you were naive doesn't mean people have the right to sexually assault you. Just because I had been drinking or that I had initially consented, doesn't mean he had a right to continue when consent was removed.

Don't blame yourself - you have nothing to be ashamed of.

YY to that. I'm really, glad, plinky, that you've found a good man and understand your past. Me too (raped, then toxic relationship but am happy with a good man now, and he helped me to understand it all).

I'm just dropping in quickly while my boyfriend has popped out to the shop.

Offred I think you're right, that 10/11 age bracket is (if you are to believe child psychology stages of development) one of the next big developmental stages. I remember a lot of things 'clicking into place' for me when I got to that age. It's when I started to understand myself, my place in the world, my value and sadly, none of it was particularly positive. I can completely get why at this age if would have a profound impact. And YY to being vulnerable to further abuse.

Simatmum Yes, I think you're right. The counselling is providing a very safe space to 'explore' stuff. My counsellor is very good. I think that as far as this stuff goes, it had just been such a part of me that I hadn't questioned it too much. It had just 'happened'. I've only just really started to examine it and the role it has played in other choices I made. I've always thought I couldn't be loved, but now I look back and realise that I did have chances with good and decent men but I didn't feel I was good enough or worthy of them, and so didn't ever pursue it. And was, in some cases, quite unkind to them because I felt angry with them that they thought it amusing to toy with me and let me think they were interested when they couldn't possibly be.

Plinky much of what you have said rings so many bells with me. It's shocking at how much of a standard pattern there seems to be to it all. My childhood taught me I wasn't worth anything; the responses to sexual abuse taught me I wasn't worth anything and the two LTRs I have had were both abusive, thus reinforcing the belief I already had that I wan't worth anything. And yes, I wasn't taught a good relationship model by my parents. They both married someone they didn't love and didn't want to be with, which is exactly what I did! It came as quite a shock when I described their relationship to my counsellor and realised that exactly the same could be said about mine. I had no idea.

I'm going to tell him when he gets back. Coincidentally, he was asking me a lot of questions about my past earlier and said he really wanted to know my 'story'. It's hard to bring it up though because we laugh so much and there's little in it to laugh about. I said that I am happy to tell him everything and he can ask anything he likes but that some of it isn't very nice - it's hardly a Bedtime Story (although I'm aware other people's stories are worse...)

Ooh I can see him coming up the driveway. I'd better go...

I'm really pleased other people are finding this helpful. As sad as it is, it's rather comforting to realise that the way I've responded to it is pretty normal. It makes it easier, I think, to talk about it.

Miranda And it's fantastic to hear that you have had such a happy ending. It definitely gives hope...

Justa It happened when I was 16. I was a virgin & had been brought up strictly religious, was 'saving myself' for Mr Right. Rapist was my line manager (and an ex-policeman!). I'd worked there for three months. He gave me a lift home after a staff meal out, drove somewhere lonely & locked the car doors, sprung it on me, etc. I told my best friend the next day & she was annoyed with me, said I must've led him on & I believed her. Anyway, made some very poor choices after that because I felt worthless.

Met my DH five years later, married for a long time but this was always hanging over me, came up in times of stress (e.g childbirth ). Eventually DH realised how much it still lingered & sat me down & made me repeat 'It wasn't my fault'. I found myself saying 'Yes, I know, but I did like him' or 'Yes, but we'd been having a laugh in the restaurant' even though I knew deep down that it was rape and not seduction - there is no way I would've chosen to sleep with him. Anyway, it took DH TWO HOURS of repetition 'It wasn't your fault' & then I had a breakthrough, cried, & have put it behind me .

I don't dwell on it these days. But I've written it down in the hope that it will help.

You will get there!

I had a similar thing happen to me. A guy took me somewhere remote and made it clear he wouldn't take me home unless I had sex with him. I made it clear I didn't want to, but he went ahead anyway and end the end I let him. I hated myself for letting him. What was even more disturbing is that I had my period and he didn't even let that stop him, he just took my tampon out and carried on. Strange how you remember those details, like how he didn't remove your knickers.

He also tied to pursue a relationship with me, like if he made me his girlfriend it would make it better. I used to feel sick every time he rang the house.

Did you ever discuss what happened with your counsellor? I found that helped. I also found talking about it on here helped. It was useful to have someone acknowledge that yes i was raped, and it wasn't my fault.

Op I am really sorry that you were raped. But I promise you, it absolutely was not your fault.

Am still thinking about this thread and wondering if the people on it have experienced similar and have words of wisdom or empathy for me with this problem.

I had a (truly) lovely long weekend with bf and monday night he spent hours focusing on relaxing me. I went to sleep absolutely relaxed and comfortable with him and then dreamed horrible dreams about him hurting me in ways I was hurt by xp. :( This seems to be happening on a fairly regular basis when he stays over and it is making me feel really sad.

I'm so confused about it, I don't trust myself to make decisions sensibly about relationships. I know bf is not like xp but it gives me this nagging doubt and anxiety that I don't want to have. I used to have these dreams about my xh as well and he is not like xp either, although demonstrated some sexist traits in the end which killed off our relationship (amongst other things).

Last night I just sat in my bed and cried with anxiety knowing I would see bf tonight and he has just texted to say he loves me so much and can't wait to see me tonight and I just feel so so anxious and confused and sad that I'll never be able to just enjoy a normal and happy relationship without messing it up with this anxiety and suspicion. :(

Offred if it is any consolation I find that I always have always had incredibly vivid dreams about my ex when I start a new relationship - and he wasn't even abusive. Details I had long forgotten emerge, more vividly than any other dreams. Actually I am happily married now, so not in a new relationship, but had a dream last night in which I could smell his very specific aftershave. It was there in the room with me.

I think that we store enormous amounts of information in our subconscious. In traumatic situations we bury the information deeper in our unconscious. When we move on, our subconscious has a spring clean and brings some of those details to the surface. It doesn't mean that your new bf is reminding you of him, or triggering them - although the fact that you felt so relaxed and safe might have meant that your mind felt safe to let out some of your past experiences, which you are bound to feel anxious about. You are then free to talk about them - maybe in therapy, or maybe just in rl to a friend, or on here. Your anxiety mean that there are some unresolved issues or feelings which could be brought out through counselling (psycho-dynamic rather than CBT - looking at causes, rather than behaviour).

Take things slowly with your new bf and do tell him as much as you are able. You could tell him that you have had bad experiences in the past, and that you are currently having flashbacks/bad dreams . . . how he reacts, how supportive he is (or not) will help you to feel reassured, or otherwise, about how he views such issues. Keep on working on your anxiety and the causes of it.

Thanks sally, that makes sense and is helpful. I have talked about it all to bf, he knows absolutely everything and has been exceptionally patient and understanding with me. I have told him about the dreams and reassured him that I know he isn't like xp but I suppose I'm worried about how much of this I can expect him to put up with. It just seems to be constant crap.

and then there's this nagging feeling of anxiety which I can't shake. :(

Offred I had a friend whose first marriage was incredibly abusive, not least financially. I do remember when she met her second, lovely husband to be, that she told him that she would never depend upon a man financially again, she would always have her own money and have everything she needed above board and sorted. Second hubby was a keeper and agreed to anything she wanted.

I think that the important thing is to be above board. Don't pretend that you haven't been affected by the past. Tell him what you need and let him love you as you are. It's not "putting up with you" it's accepting you and loving you as you are - just as you will do with him. That's what a relationship is about.