Are men in general just awful?

[Redredrum]

I've just been screwed around by a bloke. Most of my boyfriends have been total arsewipes at some point.

My dad was a shit dad, totally self obsessed and never paid for me.

My friend's dads and boyfriends are the same, if not worse- cheating, violent etc.

I never want to have a relationship again. I'll just end up getting hurt.

I know lots of you will come on and say how some men are good but right now they seem like the exception, not the rule.

Completely agree with those who said this is the clue, Redred: "My dad was a shit dad, totally self obsessed"

Like it or not, our dads set the patter for what we expect in men. This is what we feel we deserve, indeed that's all there is for women. I didn't even find out that not all men hit their partners until I was 35! Just never occurred to me that it wasn't 'normal'. Looking back, I did of course meet nice men who treat women like proper equals, and have equal respect & love for themselves and their partners. But I sort of didn't 'get' them or their wives. So I surrounded myself with people whose expectations were similar to mine - this wasn't remotely conscious or deliberate, but it was inevitable.

The answer is, perhaps not-so-obviously, to learn to really love, value and respect your self. To value yourself so highly that your boundaries are firm, strong & resilient. To treat others with honest compassion, and always be compassionate to yourself :)

Good luck!

IME (apart from my dad - deceased) they are all awful, after one thing (sex, blow jobs, anal) or get off on beating up the woman they supposedly love. Fucking hate them. Thank GOD at least one of my daughters has decided she only likes females.

If you some of these sweeping comments made about women you would be rightly horrified.

I think some men are completely vile, as I think some women are too.

I didn't have a good start in life, my father was a knob and some of my mothers partners were knobs. They cheated and were physically, verbally and emotionally abusive to my mother. Having said that, my mother was no saint either.

I was abused by a friends dad when I was 11 and had 2 relationships with men that were both physically, verbally and emotionally abusive. Do I feel like it was my fault? Yes, I did for a long time and felt something was wrong with me.

I now take people as I find them, male or female. There is good and bad in all. Sadly it's not always easy to weed out the bad ones from the start as I know from experience people can come across wonderful, loving and genuine then the bad starts to creep in slowly.

Avoiding relationships and staying single doesn't necessarily mean you won't get hurt, lots of things hurt us. But we're still here to tell the tale so our survival rate of shit relationships is 100%, I think that's pretty good going :-)

No, you can't generalise about 50% of the population. However, it sounds like you seem to choose really badly.

Most of the men I know are lovely, caring, kind men. My DH being one of them.

I think look at yourself as well to see what you're doing to attract the wrong types. What is it that makes you choose these men?

My DDad was a wonderful bloke that put up with far more than was reasonable in a marriage. My DH is a good un too (since having a larger ring through his nose and an extra layer or barbed wire around the top of his enclosure) but I have had exes that have done breathtakingly bad things from financial abuse, DV,EA to breaking the law in quite big ways. If I am ever a widow I certainly won't be looking for anyone new.

My DH is a good un too (since having a larger ring through his nose and an extra layer or barbed wire around the top of his enclosure)

At first I thought you were saying your DH was a punk, then I realised it was just a breathtakingly offensive metaphor.

I think it is hard to find a good man and I know in real life that is a situation lot of my friends and sister has to deal with.

First you got get a boyfriend and that can be hard as a lot of them just want to fuck around. You get a partner then they will either cheat, be abusive in some way or cause some sort stress in your life yet as fickle women we forgive and the cycle goes on.

My dad is a lovely man and my mum is very lucky but I decided men like him are very rare.

Earlier we had a "all men are selfish" thread and now we have "are men just awful".

At least this OP had the sense to insert the words "in general" in this one.

There are some awful men, just as there are awful women. Fred West and Ian Brady didn't work alone, did they?

And while I understand that our own life experiences can cloud our judgements, such sweeping generalisations don't help matters and, actually, in some cases, can be very offensive.

While I am pleased to see some people posting decent counter arguments, I also know damn well that if I, as a man, posted on here a thread "all women are generally just awful" and slagged off my mother, her friends and all my female partners in the way the OP has, the responses would be far more vitriolic than the reasonable ones have been on here.

Shame.

Most of the men I know are lovely most the time (no one is all the time). I swerve the dicks. I went out with some tosspots when younger, they didn't last long as I knew that wasn't the right way to be treated.

I do think it helps having a decent male role model growing up. Teach your daughters that men should be good, whey they grow up they drop the tossers. Teach them all men are arseholes they put up with arseholes because thats what they assume men are like.

It works the other way round too.

Most of the men I know are decent human beings. Some are pretty unpleasant. Some are shocking.

Most of the women I know are decent human beings. Some are pretty unpleasant. Some are shocking.

They're just people.

These threads make me quite sad. Nearly everyone on mumsnet is rightly horrified and angry when they see men make comments to the effect of 'all women are golddiggers and bitches', yet threads like this pop up all the time with loads of people agreeing that men are all abusive.

I grew up with a great male role model, my dad is amazing, kind, gentle, thoughtful, and though he never did his share of the housework, mum did have a cleaner as she also worked fulltime so it wasn't so important. I have one brother who is a selfish arse, and another brother who is similar to my dad.

However, I don't think it's just about the people we choose to mix with in our social lives. I have worked in several places, and the only men who kept their dicks in their pants were when I worked with several engineers. I've worked in Finance, Media, NHS, Councils, Quangos and the vast majority of men have been shagging around or wanting to shag around but lacking opportunity. Far fewer women were doing the shagging, and the ones that did tended to be "liberal with their affections" so it wasn't always a case of one unfaithful man = one unfaithful woman.

Research also tells us that, despite working full time, most women are still doing most of the housework and organising of children. There is still an expectation that women will be the ones to drop everything if children need picking up from school, etc.

Of course there are exceptions to the above, but on the whole, the behaviour and attitude of most men stinks, but given the patriarchal nature of our society and the tolerance that women show for such behaviour, there is no reason for them to change.

Sigh.

worldgonecrazy -

On the sexual aspect, aren't you basically just saying that promiscuity "stinks"? What is the moral argument for saying people OUGHT to be monogamous? Doesn't that just come down to the fact that that's what most women WANT, so they're frustrated that most men don't want it too?

I do have a moral attitude to trust and honesty in relationships, and I think people should be honest with prospective partners about what they can expect, and then do their best to live up to whatever they have said they will do. But this is complicated. Part of the problem is that a lot of men really don't believe in monogamy at all, but feel they have to play the game if they want to get sex. Another is that women sometimes hear what they want to hear, and vows of fidelity or whatever else become understood on the basis of assumptions, rather than genuine explicit agreements. Another is that relationships change, and monogamy that seems OK when you're newly together and ripping each others clothes off every opportunity, can feel less OK when you're lucky to manage a tired feeble shag twice a year.

Different sexual preferences and expectations between the sexes can certainly be a problem that can make people unhappy. I'm not sure that means men are "awful" though - just that they are, in many ways, inconvenient to what women want (and vice versa, of course).

I dont think the majority of men are awful, I think the majority of men are actually very decent.
I think the problem is that some women end up with bad experiences of a lot of men and assume that most men must be like that. But a lot of women also end up with lots of good experiences of men.
I know some men who are awful, but the vast majority of men I know are good husbands, boyfriends and fathers.
I know some truly awful women too who are awful mothers and awful partners, but they are also in the minority and most women I know are good mothers and partners.

FastLoris I think you're 100% correct.

if I, as a man, posted on here a thread "all women are generally just awful" ... I've seen it often enough on predominantly male forums, NotNew Similar thing usually happens: a bunch of posters agree and share their horror stories, someone comes along and says that's a bit of an unfair generalisation, discussion/argument ensues, nothing gets resolved.

I will pick you up on "slag off my mother" though. Dysfunctional parents lead to children making poor choices in later life. Fact, not a value judgement.

This is a really sad thread.

As a mother of sons this makes me both sad and frustrated!

People in general can be awful, as a species we are programmed to be survivalists, that makes humans selfish and sometimes self centred.

That doesn't mean all men are arseholes!

I know tons of lovely men, tons of lovely women too. I wish people would start seeing people for who they are rather than what they house between their legs,

Your Dad aside maybe you are mixing with the wrong people.

I don't know you but are you mixing with a wide variety of people or just a small demographic?

For instance if you went to a AA meeting you'd expect to meet alcoholics similarly if you hang out in dodgy boozers where the same guys are are in there day in day out it doesn't take much working out that they would rather be in the pub than doing anything else.

Again if you are fequenting the golf club and get chatting to the guys that are there every saturday and sunday then you can expect that if you have a relationship with one you are likely to be a golf widow.

In my experience of people in general, most are good caring folks that just want to love someone and have a nice life together.