So upset my husband has lying to me about our finances

[goodiegoodieyumyum]

We own a house in the UK, we could not sell it when we had to move abroad for husbands work. Yesterday DH was sick and I came home from taking my dd to school is was lying on the couch crying. I asked him what was wrong and he said he was scared about our relationship,I asked him why and he said because he had been lying to me about our finances in the UK.

The mortgage comes out of his bank account and the rent goes into to, rent much more than mortgage (now not when we first moved and we used to transfer money every month to make up the short fall), but we have to pay fees to the estate agent and other cost to do with the house and taxes on profits. He has been telling me we had loads of money, when actually his has a huge overdraft on the account. We can get a loan which we can afford but it means all the plans we had have to be put on hold.

We have a joint account here but didn't in the UK, he has promised he will put me on the account so I can manage the finances in the future. When we got married I discovered he had a lot of debt, luckily he sold a flat he owned and he mad a big profit. It did upset me that he wasn't honest and acted like he had a lot of money, before we got married, he promised he would never keep secrets to me , but he has.

So upset, especially as if he had told me sooner we could have economised sooner and not got into so much debt. I was Ok at first worried about him, but now all I want to do is cry.

Don't want to drip feed, don;t really like living where we live, though it is getting better in certain parts of life, so I am very confused at the moment.

Get yourself and accountant. I am a LL with 3 properties and can assure you that costs associated with running the house to rent ARE deductible. It's taken me 4 years to break even and more losses are carried forward into subsequent years until a profit is made.

Of course, that doesn't alter the fact that he lied. My husband has hidden issues from me too in the past as he didn't want to worry me. I made it clear that I was more worried by the lying than the debt as I hate liars. If I know, we can work through it together. More than that though, it's making him see that his debts are my debts and not knowing would be a deal breaker if it happened again.

Why are you paying tax on this in the UK? If you are Dutch residents you pay tax in the Netherlands. I don't understand how it can possible have dragged you into this much debt if the rent is more than the mortgage.

So you found out once you married him you found out he had a lot of debt, that's worrying and now you find out you're actually in debt and he's kept that from you.

I'd have serious trust issues with him tbh, and him crying would just make me think him more pathetic, I take it you now have to clean up his mess?

Definitely get financial advice about what you can do now.

There other things you have to pay besides the motgage, insurance, agents fees, repairs to you house, interest on overdrawn bank accounts.

We may live in the Netherlands but our house is in the uk and the rent is taxed, we choose to pay at the end of yhe year but we still have yo pay tax on the rent, minus any legitimate expenses, only interest payment are considered legitimate expenses not the capital repayments

I would want him to tell his parents it wasn't my fault too Goodie. I would feel he was trying to shy away from shouldering the responsibility - trying to lessen how badly he would look at my expense. It seems almost like a mild continuation of the lie. I don't know if that really matters though, it may just be the pain and disapointment in him trying to find a vent.

As Dutch residents you can have all your tax liabilities in the Netherlands. Have you got all the details on the outgoings, tax paid etc.? If not, I would wonder whether you have been told the whole truth.

It is possible to make a loss if rent is more than mortgage. The capital repayment part of the mortgage is not a tax deductible expense, and can end up paying out more for mortgage, plus expenses, plus tax, than you get in rent. Even though on paper you make a profit and pay tax. (basically if you want to rent out a house for profit, you are still expected to pay for the purchase of the house yourself, the tax man won't fund it, only the interest on the mortgage not the repayment of the house cost).

You have to be managing it pretty poorly to make an actual loss and not just about cover your costs, though. Well, to the extent that this sounds like. Small losses in first few years are common. High mortgage in low rent area? Not claiming all possible expenses? If you can afford it, get an accountant to go over your tax returns. If you were doing them yourselves it's very likely you paid too much tax.

Has DP explained why he lied though? I agree this is the real problem, not the financial issue. You could have tackled this together if you'd known, looked at reducing costs, looked at switching to an interest only mortgage for a while (so then all the mortgage cost is tax deductable), managed the tenancy yourselves instead of through an agency etc. The deliberate deceipt he engaged in is something I'd find hard to forgive, especially as he's done it before. And he's got a secret credit card too? I'm not an LTB person but this is a very serious problem. You'll probably not be able to trust him with any of your finances (or his own personal ones) again and have to do all the management of it yourself. Are you happy to do that for the rest of your life?

Solom

Solomon I only know what our Estate agents and the HMRC told us and that is that we need to pay tax on the rent if our house. I will look into what you are saying, my husband did have his tax return by PWC the first year we were in the Netherlands snd he was never told that, it cost a fortune too.

You deduct all expenses, interest, insurance, agents fees, maintenance, before your declare your income. The rental income is therefore rent minus all expenses, and if I remember correctly your tax is then 20% of the profit on the income.

You need a spreadsheet. Has he declared the full rent without making deductions from expenses? Or does the agent have a management company that does this so you get the net income paid to your account?

Solomon I only know what our Estate agents and the HMRC told us and that is that we need to pay tax on the rent if our house. I will look into what you are saying, my husband did have his tax return by PWC the first year we were in the Netherlands snd he was never told that, it cost a fortune too.

If your not on the current account at the moment surely only your husband is liable for the debts on it? If you also get named on the account bear in mind that you will become equally and separately liable for any debts.

Any chance you can move back into your house?

Quint I don't think I can move back in to the house, I am not sure I could take my children away from the Netherlands to England, we have tenants who have a lease, and it is not guaranteed I would find a job in England

goodie it was our experience (we moved abroad and rented out our home for more than a decade, had some similar issues over expenses exceeding revenue at first) that the big accounting firms like PWC were a bit useless unless you tax affairs were complicated and involved very big numbers. We were middling - would have been top band tax payers in the UK, but no significant or complicated investments or wealth to speak of except the house we were renting out. It may be you have more complicated tax issues than just the one overseas property to contend with, but if not I suggest you look for a tax accountant who specialises in people in your situation, which will likely be an individual or much smaller firm. They cost a lot less than PWC etc. too! You need recommendations from the ex-pat community near you.

Thanks BoomBoom, you have given me lots of good advice today, I will ask my Expat group if any one can help, I am really glad I posted as I had no idea at all. Feel a bit of an idiot, would you believe I am a qualified tax agent In Australia, very different to the UK and The Netherlands.

I hope this doesn't sound like drip feeding but I do wonder if part of the reason my DH did not tell me is because of my Health problems, diagnosed with MH issues last year, though obviously this has been going on for longer, I do think DH puts his head in the sand and hopes things go away.

He tells me he doesn't know why he lied, he knows he could have fucked our marriage, which was why he was crying yesterday, I think feeling crap with man flu probably tipped him over the edge, thank god something did. Not saying I forgive him or anything, but I love him and in many other ways he is a great husband.

The one person I would normally talk to in a situation like this is having pretty big problems in her life so I don't think I will burden her, I might end up telling my uncle, we are very close even though he does live in Australia, I probably have to be hard on my husband as I know he won't like me telling him but I need to talk to someone, plus it is very hard to hide ho I am feeling at the moment.

I would very well believe you're qualified elsewhere - tax, and cross boarder taxation is ridiculously complicated. I see no reason why someone who understands Australian taxation would know their liabilities in the EU.

If you're an Australian citizen that probably complicates things even more. Apparently there is a Netherlands/UK tax treaty which seems to suggest people resident in the Netherlands with income in the UK are treated as non-resident Brits for personal allowance purposes by HMRC. But don't rely on me - you need someone who is qualified to tell you the score.

Good luck with the finances. Give yourself time to work out what you feel about the situation with your DH. Just because it wasn't deliberately malicious doesn't mean you have to be OK with it.

I agree that you definitely need a good accountant - one who is well versed in dealing with ex-pats.

I think that there are three issues here.

1. Your husband has lied to you (and there's probably still more to come).

2. You need professional, financial advice.

The third I don't think will be a popular opinion.

3. You abdicated financial decision-making to someone you already knew was bad with money. You have some responsibility for the situation here.

We use a smaller tax specialist/account. Obviously your circumstances may be different, but it is worth getting advice.

You need to get the tax position sorted. Non-residents DO NOT pay different rates of tax; that would be in breach of EU regs (Spain tried this for CGT and had to change their rules). If you are British, EU or Commonwealth citizens then you are still both entitled to a full UK personal allowance which is £10.5k each from 6 April so you would need to be making a profit of over £21k before you paid any tax at all. Who has been filling in your tax returns ? I assume you don't have significant other sources of UK income ?

Sorry, Commonwealth citizens only get personal allowance until 2009/10, not thereafter. Are you Australian OP ?

Have have Dual citizenship Australian/ British

Logg1e I don't think the OP did abdicate financial decision making. She was involved, she clearly understood the situation when they moved out, since they had to send money back each month and she knew about this. She sees the leasing agent's statement each month. She relied on her DH to inform her of the figures and he lied to her about their circumstances, telling her they had loads of money. Being fed incorrect information by your DH and making decisions based on that is different from abdicating responsibility. People shouldn't have to expect to need to audit their spouses.

The business partner very, if not most, likely to defraud you is one who is also your loved one. I didn't believe this when I first learned it, because I didn't want to. Because it shouldn't be true I decided it couldn't be true. But it is. I'm afraid I think the OP does have some of the responsibility, especially as she already knew he was dishonest about finances.

I won't say any more, because what is most helpful is dealing with the situation as it is, I just wanted to bring some balance to those putting all of the responsibility on the husband.