Can you help me with how to put this to my DD? I'm still failing miserably.

[DowntonTrout]

On going issues with DD. I have posted about our problems before. This is long so I will apologise now.

DD and her DH have a baby. They live at the opposite end of the country. They struggle financially and she struggles with emotional support as there is no family around them. When she gave up on college and a future career at 18 to get married and have a baby we did not see eye to eye. We were NC for a while.

Yes things have improved since my GC was born but she still puts constant emotional pressure on me.just little things like posting on FB that she's so ill and just wants her mummy. When mum was dying last month she attempted to make it all about her. We have given them over £700 since December, one thing or another. I do try very hard to be non judgemental, or at least appear non judgemental. The truth is I do judge. I am still reeling from when she put us through hell and left us owing thousands without a backward glance. It is very hard not to say I told you so. Everyone said "give her a chance, this could be the making of her." But I feared it would be like this, and it is.

She has just asked for more money. The dog needed to go to the vets. They now have no money and the car needs work. She has not received an outstanding payment from her previous employer. It goes on and on. We were away last week and so all these texts started up. The cynic in me feels it is because we were away. I've just had a conversation about prioritising their money and of course she's flipped out and said I need to speak to her DH about it. Well, I don't, do I? It's not for me to do. I'm not emotionally strong enough to deal with her at the moment.

I always make sure they have enough for the baby, I will not see him going without, we managed to get through their extended stay at Christmas without too much drama and I stood firm then. But I dread the phone ringing, I have done too much picking up the pieces for her over the years and I hate that she makes me feel guilty for having a nice life when she has so little. I'm feeling very down right now, recently bereaved, the holiday was to have a bit of respite and just relax but I've come back feeling stressed and under pressure. She's just been crying on the phone, I'm all kinds of wrong and don't understand how hard it is apparently. But I do. I've been there. So now she's texting, "right I won't ask for anything again." The only thing she wants to hear is "yes, how much?"

• but what I have been doing...

If she/ they never suffer the consequences of their financial mismanagement then why would they change the magic formula (hitting you up for cash). Bailing her out and being the back-up plan for life's challenges is not cushioning her but letting her selfishness stifle her potential development.

You need to set clear boundaries and back them up. She will scream and shout, threaten and ignore you but you do need to make a stand and she needs to see you make that stand.

She is is an adult and there is a flip side to making her own choices and that is being responsible for them.

Hi Downton, have replied. Will help if I can at all.

I agree with those who've said you have to put your foot down now. She won't change otherwise.

DowntonTrout
If I may quote you back to yourself...
'Ive talked on here about a possible personality disorder'
'Probably have been the worst kind of helicopter parent'

No,no,no,no! Stop.

Stop looking for reasons to excuse her poor behaviour and unhealthy demands upon you. Also, ways to cover your probable embarrassment at not being able to say no to her.

Every time you pander to her manipulation and say 'yes' - it gives her more reason to keep on hitting on you financially & emotionally.

Just say no and mean it.

She is now an adult, married with a husband and a child of her own. View her as that , not as your child who needs you to rescue her every time she has a toddler tantrum.

You created her: not her problems. She ( and her husband) created her financial problems, they need to face them as a couple.
For her to make you to feel obligated to sort them is wrong. Very different to you seeing them struggle and offering to help.

'Honestly,our heart just drops when our DD1 is phoning us'

Just plain wrong, I've witnessed and felt this too. But what hurt me more was my parents choice not to do anything to change the situation , re address the balance and choose to become more and more stressed.

'But my elder ds who has never asked for anything'
That was me - I knew that my parents were so emotionally drained / invested in him and financially stretched that I didn't ask. I knew they were so drained - they had nothing left to give me.

I got so fed up with being told that ' I was different to him, I was stronger - I didn't need them like he did'
I truly hope you don't see yourselves saying these things. It's just a way of relieving guilt , over an unhealthy relationship.

Please, stop putting your DD1 ahead of you and your whole family's .
Somewhere within you, you must find the strength to start saying no and standing up for yourself.

'The truth is , she frightens me.'
What frightens you is what 'could' possibly happen. Assuming the worst and not even contemplating a good outcome is what is leaving you overwhelmed.

It is hard to break the habit, it possibly may be harder in the short term.
But by breaking the habit long term , it can make all of your futures happier.

Everything you say pausing I agree with.

I mistakenly saw what I was doing as strength but really it's been my weakness.

I haven't offered the money. They need to feel the pain to stop repeating this pattern don't they?

Downton

How did christmas go when you put boundries in place as to what you were prepared to let you dd do.

Did you stick with them or did your dd manage to get her own way.

Downton yes, you are right. Please don't be swayed by the emotional blackmail (including suicide attempt) your daughter may or may not employ.

One thing that helped in our situation was that my husband could get through to my daughter more than I could. We are too alike and strike sparks or each other. But my husband who was much calmer sometimes got results where I did not. I don't know whether that may be the same in your case.

It was ok in the end. We stuck to our plans. She was grateful for her presents and didn't resent DD2. I managed to stay calm and that helped. My mum was very ill at that point and so it was a bit of distraction really.

Mum died after they'd gone and there was a lot of pressure to come home. I flew them down for the funeral but only for a few days because I just couldn't cope with everything turning into a drama at that point. There was a bit of attention seeking FB posting within an hour of mum dying and I had to ask that nothing else be posted until I had had chance to speak to everyone myself. Honestly, sometimes FB is the devil, I didn't want mums death publicising like that.

Dutcoma that is very true. I'm far too emotionally invested. DH doesn't get involved and she knows better than to try it with him. When he does, it's final and there is no argument. I should learn from that.

Downtown

Well done, you have taken a small step - lots of small steps will amount to a huge change , just stick at it.

Look forward to the time , when the phone rings from your DD1 you don't panic - she's ringing for a chat, a catch up not because you are her cash cow.

Look forward to your next holiday with your younger Dd without being made to feel guilty.

'They need to feel the pain' - not as I would put it .

You are NOT punishing them by withdrawing 'unreasonable' demands on your purse.

You are GIVING them ownership of their own responsibilities.
If they have you as an easy back up - no reason to make considered choices.
If she's treated as an adult - she will become one.

I read somewhere.

'There are two gifts we should give our children.
One is roots and the other is wings'.

Don't punish yourself , but stay strong with your boundaries.

Ok, maybe feeling the pain is too strong a statement. I think what I mean is letting them learn from their mistakes instead of solving their problems for them

Exactly
X

DH doesn't get involved and she knows better than to try it with him. When he does, it's final and there is no argument. I should learn from that. Perhaps that's the answer.

If she using you to get money etc, because she knows you won't say no. Perhaps your stock answer needs to be "I need to discuss this with dad" before giving an answer. I don't mean making your DH the 'bad' parent but more in letting her know that you and your DH are a team and that and financial decision and are made together.

I do think you need to take a step back and her and her DH make their own mistakes. You could give them all your money and it still won't be enough. Yes support them in getting help for the debt/budgeting issues so they can clear them and move forward in a positive way.

I agree with everyone else who says that you need to stop bailing her out over every little thing. She needs to find a sustainable way of making her life and finances work.

However, I think it's important also for you to make it clear that if she ever really needs help, you are there for her, and to try to have a conversation about not helping her without it becoming angry and confrontational (easier said than done). To be honest, she is still trapped in a child's mindset, but with all these adult responsibilities. It will be a very tough transition for her to stand on her own two feet.

I also think it's important to maintain a very strict equality in the way you treat both children. My family has been torn apart by favouritism and gross inequality across many generations, and it does so much emotional damage. :(

Could you make it very clear that she (and baby) is always welcome to come back and live under your roof and rules if she is very stuck, whilst telling her that the handouts can't continue?

What happened within and after the psychiatric unit?

Can you offer help that is not money but goods? My mother is a similar drain and so, rather than sending money, I send food via Tesco delivery or I pay her phone bill. I never, ever say yes to providing money but, equally, I do a lot to supply things which she needs. I send books, food and pay the odd bill.

That way, I retain some control over the money so it is used for things she needs rather than things she wants (in my Mum's case - alcohol).

If you did something similar, you would be saying,"No" and being firm with her but also sending some things that show your support (baby clothes, a voucher for a haircut etc).

I really feel for you but I think you have to pull back further. If her DH is military, there will be a lot of care for her, the baby and her DH. They will not starve or be allowed to struggle.

I was just about to write what Roseformeplease has written. I think it is excellent advice and gives you some control on how your money is spent.

If she's not grateful for that then it tells you something about her attitude to your money (a mere advance on her inheritance as she could be seeing it!).

Oh love, it's hard being a mum. I think, although I can't quite put myself in your position but mine are 19 and nearly 16, I would say "that's fine, you have made a lot of independent decisions and now I'd like you to follow them through and get yourself organised. If anything bad happens, ie, you suffer domestic violence or are made homeless, then obviously I want you and dgc to come home and we will help you back on your feet".

I don't know; really I don't but hugs

Op I don't have huge advice here as your dd sounds as if she has issues way beyond her relationship with you. It's very serious if she has had a suicide attempt and also received psychiatric care. It's not normal for people to go around making suicide attempts. She needs assistance for this which you cannot provide for her.

But this should not be mixed in with the money situation. You are right to stop giving her cash. But equally don't you want to build the relationship with her where she can turn to you for help and a safe haven? That does not have to involve giving out a few hundred here and there which actually doesn't solve any long term financial issues anyway.

I write this because your story in parts is very similar to me and my mother although without the grandchild. I was accused of suicide attempts to get attention and to guilt trip but actually was diagnosed with bipolar many years later. My parents tried to solve the problem by giving money which really solved nothing at all. But as the child, even as a grown up, all I wanted was to be able to have somewhere secure. It's not exactly as windymill has beautifully put.

Sorry, not trying to project but the suicide thing really struck me. If your main relationship with your daughter is maintained by giving a few hundred here and there its not helping anyone. I hope she is getting professional support for her health issues and perhaps changing communication in the long run to not just be about cash will help. A bit of distance for you could help. Don't answer the phone if you don't feel up to it, for example :) it's OK for you to limit contact for a while to figure out what you want and to let your daughter find her own feet.

Sorry, it's exactly as windmill says, I agree completely! Phone.....

Sorry, the suicide attempt is a red herring really. She let everyone believe she had taken an overdose, by appearing to be unconscious, and was admitted to the psych unit. She was crying wolf. She has also undergone medical procedures, which may have been unnecessary, at worst I suspect Munchausens.

I don't mean to drip feed. There has been so much I can't begin to put it all down. I know some people remember various posts over the last few years. So yes, the money thing is just the tip of the iceberg, it's just that I can't cope with another escalating round of drama just now. I haven't constantly given money, as I said, we were NC for around 18 months. I have made concerted effort since the baby was born and bought practical baby items which I have delivered to help out and show willing. But it's one step forward, two steps back. Every little bit I give, emotionally, financially whatever, she wants more. It is never enough.

Ah OK :) still something going on though psychologically though I guess? It must be difficult for you. I hope she's getting professional help because it just doesn't sound like a healthy way to live. Not good for you to be sucked in.

I suspect it's hard to admit as a mum that there's only so much you can do (about to become a mum so can't say for sure!). Tough love is sometimes the best thing, similar to how some families have to behave with addicts. Quite aside from the fact that you can't keep giving her money indefinitely at great cost to yourself?

In a nutshell she was in and out of hospital from a young age. Missed a lot of school and fell behind. Then we realised there was more to it and eventually we discovered she also had some learning difficulties. Parents with DCs who have special needs will recognise that you fight a lot of battles to get the help they require. She also began to struggle with friendships and socially. I think she learned behaviour that meant illness or making people feel sorry for you gained attention. Generally people got tired of that because she was such hard work.

I'm not sure when that crossed over into faking illness/injuries or creating drama to gain attention, certainly earlier than I recognised it as such, but not before others suspected it. And so my fighting her battles had become a pattern and also a problem. Still I felt I was the last person she had who would fight her corner, I was blinded by that, tbh, and when everything came to a head three years ago I was devastated. Even I didn't believe her anymore and that leaves you with a lot of guilt.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to forgive her or trust her again. I have built bridges because of my GC but I am constantly on edge. It is horrible to feel that way about your child.