Just awful PILs and need advice

[anotherPILthreadsorry]

Hi all

first of all I have name changed for this but I promise I am a regular. Secondly I am sorry to whinge about my parents in law but need some outside perspective on these issues.

DH and I have been married for a couple of years and I am 30 weeks pregnant with our first child. We are both educated professionals and modern thinking, lefty liberal types. This is relevant!

My parents are very right-on and similar to me and DH. They also live near to where we live (we live near to where we work- which is where we met) so we see them alot more than PILs. My mum came from a broadly middle class home and my dad from a very working class family that he distanced himself from. Again, this is relevant. I have a sister who does the same job as me and DH and who we are close to.

DHs family are quite different. They live about 50 miles away from us and resent that we don't live closer. They are very working class and suspicious of education and the way we live. They don't understand why DH went to university and comment on this often. From the get go it was clear that they thought me and my family were snobs and will loudly comment on things like newspapers in our homes, having a lot of books around etc. They both worked in unskilled jobs all their lives and pride themselves on being salt of the earth types. I am not a class warrior though and this isn't the major issue, although it is certainly a contributory factor to our ongoing disharmony.

DH has a younger sister and she has recently become engaged to her boyfriend of a year. She is around 10 years younger than me, and 7ish years younger than DH and massively spoilt. PILs lavish all their attention, energy and any money they have on her at the expensive of DH, who they just don't appear to love as much. This is the major issue with my PILs. The fiance of the sister is a dickhead- racist, masoginistic, sexist- just an absolute pig, but my PILs can't get enough of him. FIL in particular thinks the sun shines out of his arse.

This has all come to a head now because when we married- small ceremony, nice day, no white dress- FIL refused to attend DHs stag do. No explanation, just said he wouldn't go to the best man who was organising. It was deeply embarrassing for my DH who really wanted his dad there and asked him several times to reconsider. Now FIL is going on the sister fiances stag do and gloating about how brilliant it is going to be and how he's going to get tanked up and have an amazing time. He is going on about it so much that it can't not be a wind up aimed at DH- he's posting about it all over Facebook and doing a countdown etc. At the weekend when we saw them he was going on about it again, and I said (very politely, but firmly) that he shouldn't be going on about the upcoming stag as it was hurting my DHs feelings as he hadn't gone on his stag, despite being asked more than once.

This ended up with both PILs and DHs sister saying that no wonder he hadn't gone as it wasn't a "proper" stag because we didn't have a "proper" wedding. SILs fiance then went off on a rant about how a "proper" wedding needs a white dress, church and diamond engagement ring- all things I didn't have (and chose not to have!) and that we were wrong to pull FIL up on his having not gone to DHs stag.

I didn't say anymore but I am fuming. This is far from the first horrible inequal treatment of my DH and his sister that I have witnessed but it seems the worst yet. I really don't want to see them anymore but I am aware that I am very pregnant and hormonal.

Can I have some impartial opinions, please?

Thanks all and sorry for the essay.

It all sounds like PILs are already besotted with the golden child's fiancé so as of today why not accept them as they are, don't complain, never compete and if DH wants to stay in touch, fine. If they find fault or mock, just shrug. When someone sees they touch a nerve they love to keep needling.

Don't criticise just lead your life and look forward to the arrival of your baby.They can equally like or lump your future choices, you're not asking for their approval or participation. You don't have to exclude just don't engage.

I imagine your FIL was very worried about not fitting in being with a whole group of your DH's friends at once for a stag do. And his nightmare, showing himself up in some way.

However, rubbing your DH's nose in it about going to the current stag do is spiteful.

They sound insecure and plain nasty. I agree with others, keep your distance.

Ronald,

If these people are this way inclined now, they will be the very same when the OPS child is born. They will still continue to favour OPs SIL and her hateful sounding H over the OP and her H.

Also am not sure if you saw it as x posted but OP has now pointed out that her MIL is an abusive doormat.

My counsel to OP is therefore the same; detach from and ignore such people. The best thing to do here is to live well.

Your ILs are that horrible thing - inverted snobs - and they are so insecure and small-minded that they see your DH's lifestyle choices as some kind of indirect criticism of their own. The phrase 'up his own arse since he met her.....' probably features a lot in their house. 'Jim Royle Syndrome'... I meet it a lot. :)

I don't think it helps to get into the fight because it's an illogical one. If you keep them at arms length they may, one day, work out that they've been ridiculous. Good luck

Your ILs are that horrible thing - inverted snobs - and they are so insecure and small-minded that they see your DH's lifestyle choices as some kind of indirect criticism of their own.
Does not matter one jot what class labels anyone uses - and labels only lead to stereotypical intolerance.
These people are behaving unacceptably for any class.
And as for us working class being insecure - My nan is turning in her grave as I write

no one is saying all working class people are like this

My MIL is an inverted snob and it is one of the many reasons she doesnt like me (the others being that I am the wrong colour, culture and was divorced with kids when H met me!). I just dont have anything to do with her anymore. H seems to gradually rebuilding a relationship with her after several years estrangement but thats only because she isnt asking much and he is doing was she does ask. I am waiting for it to all fall apart again (and it will) and will be there for him. Toxic people never change, I have learnt that but sadly he hasnt yet.

I would recommend counselling for your DH, mine was doing well with it but then he got made redundant and we couldnt afford it anymore, this was just before she got back in touch so he was in a very vulnerable position. His emotions were all out there and he was feeling hurt and upset when he finally accepted how badly she had treated him, and then she got in touch being all lovely. Bad combination and ultimately he will hurt more :(

Keep them the hell away from your child though. If they are too toxic for you then they are too toxic for a child. That is the only thing I have said to H, he can do what he likes but I will not allow our child to be involved.

arthritic you are missing the point. It wouldnt matter what class the ILs are, when the DH made different choices and lived a different life to them they took it as a criticism of their choices. They are proud to be WC, and why shouldnt they be? The issue is that when the DH married into a MC family and started living a MC life (Uni, professional career etc) they took it as an affront to their own life choices, rather than just accepting that he chose a different, but not wrong, path. It IS inverted snobbery, just as it would be the if the OP snubbed uni and decided to work as an unskilled labourer and her parents kicked off about that.

Except of course that would be just snobbery, not inverted...duh!

No - they are just toxic twats - just that - anything else - for example, the form that takes, risks diverting the OP from the main issue

but arthritic, the op mentioned it because this is the form their toxicity took.

I've had years of experience with ILs and their extended family who were and are, inverted snobs. We live a long way from them and thank goodness we do. It really doesn't matter what you do and how you try to please them, they will just keep moving the goal posts and you will continue to be hurt.

It took me years to come to terms with the fact they didn't like me and this was based on my upbringing, education, < add any other issue> and even the way I spoke.

I was given good advice, despite the fact it took me years to implement it, and that was to focus on your own family, your own relationship and that's all that really matters. Some families thrive on dissent and arguments and your ILs may just keep goading you until you respond. This happened to me and of course, they were the victims.

I am virtually NC now - many years down the line . My DH does the contacting and that's at an absolute minimum. The one thing they hadn't bargained for was that my DH wants to be with me. He doesn't care what they think.

Snobbery in whatever form is very destructive. Keep your distance and dignity.

anotherPILthreadsorry Your are absolutely not going mad.

The problem with individuals who say they are from the 'Working Class' is they always have a chip on their shoulder.

They abhor anyone striving to make something of themselves. They don't appreciate that working class people have aspirations above low skilled jobs and manual labour.

No wonder your FIL and SIL's partner get on like a house on fire they are cut from the same cloth. Do you really want these people around your baby?

I can see why your husband is upset, its a dreadful thing to do. Your FIL sounds like pure poison and certainly not the kind of person you want around a child.

Ignore your inlaws and concentrate of your Husband and Baby.

Another - although the particulars are completely different I have the same situation in that PIL blatantly prefer dh's sister to him.

It hurts. A lot. And in all likelihood, you will find that any dc you have are a clear second best to your SIL's. Which will hurt much, much more.

There is nothing you can do, except be supportive of your dh and understand that it will never, ever go away. Until the day they die, it is likely that somewhere deep down your dh will still carry on wondering whether it is something that he did, and whether if he had done something differently maybe maybe they would not be such arseholes.

It really hurts when someone hurts someone you love, but it is something that you will just have to get used to. Getting involved in any way is likely to be turned against you in every possible awful way. Just stay out of it, minimise contact as much as you can without getting in the way of the contact your dh wants to have (regardless of whether of not you can understand why he wants this).

When you do have contact, treat them like you would an obnoxious person that you meet in a professional context - avoid conflict where possible, but do set limits if they overstep the mark too much.

So sorry you are in this situation. Fortunately your family is nearby, so you and your dc won't be missing on an extended family (mine is on a different continent, so the fact that PIL are like this leaves us completely alone).

Is getting worked up about a stag do worth it? I wouldn't have thought so. Just leave them to get on with it.

It really doesn't matter what you do and how you try to please them, they will just keep moving the goal posts and you will continue to be hurt.

This is true.

Lets say you both gave up your professions for something unskilled. Then he would be wasting his education and you would be scrounging off him.

With toxic people there is nothing you can do at all to please them because they do not want you to please them. Your job (well your DH's job and then by extension, yours) is to be in the wrong. you HAVE to be in the wrong because then that makes them right. If you are ever in the right then they must be in the wrong. Thats not actually true, we are all different and make choices that are right for us, that doesnt make others choices for them wrong. It stems from insecurity, they need others to be wrong in order to justify their own lives, choices and failures.

The problem with individuals who say they are from the 'Working Class' is they always have a chip on their shoulder.

They abhor anyone striving to make something of themselves. They don't appreciate that working class people have aspirations above low skilled jobs and manual labour.

Thats just another example of class snobbery! You have proved the point that some people view others in a different class as being wrong! My mother is proudly working class, while also living a middle class lifestyle and fully understands the dichotomy! She has bettered herself, as has my dad and wanted that for her children. She doesnt have a chip on her shoulder.

You don't mention MIL. Would a quiet word, woman to woman explaining how hurt dh is be any help in getting FIL to tone it down?

Is getting worked up about a stag do worth it?

It isnt about the stag do though, the stag do is just another example of the blatant favouritism that the PIL have shown to their DD over their DS. It is the straw that is breaking the camels back.

My Dad sounds like your FIL. I wish he hadn't gone on DH's stag do because he was a twat and ruined it, and all of us dicks at the time just put up with it. Anyway, a twat doesn't change it's spots and I haven't spoken to my Dad for about four months now after he behaved appallingly at ours. DH is a "Professor" now and my father much prefers the other sons in law. Fuck them off, it's either that or, "do what you've always done and you'll get what you've always got". Good on you for speaking up, but understand if you do, you'll always be the villain for upsetting the status quo (or the fucking sick, ever lasting family dynamic, which ever way you want to look at it).

Ime it's a good thing they've declared themselves before your DC is birth, so you know what to expect from them.

It sounds as if they're fully entrenched in the crab bucket and there's nothing you can do but support your DH. It's their loss entirely.

OP this sounds a lot like my PILs and tbh you can wonder why and think about what's made them this way but the truth is they're not very nice people and there's not much you can do about that unfortunately

I'm as working class as it's possible to be and you couldn't move in our house for books but....either way, you really need to quietly and gently detach. FIL sounds utterly repulsive and as Damefanny has just said, it's as well it's come to a bit of a head now really as their collective true colours are shining bright! Do you want your DC influenced by this rabble? It's sad for your DH but he has had a front row seat at how obnoxious his -D-father is. Detach at a sensible pace and NC longterm is my WC advice!

PIL are spoiling for a fight and are using class as the nearest weapon to hand - none of this is really about a stag night or a meringue dress. FIL is a tit.

To be honest, whatever you do you'll be in the wrong - and you're both better off out of it. Keep relations light, bright and polite, while making damn sure you don't see much of them. I hope they're nice to the baby.

@arthriticfingers.... I said they were inverted snobs, not working class. Inverted snobs are very insecure people that find anything they consider to be superior or different to be a threat. You see it a lot on MN, in fact. If someone has money they're 'not in the real world'. If their employment history is anything other than manufacturing they've 'never had a proper job'. It's petty and ridiculous frankly.

You're right to mention class, OP, as it's something your PIL (FIL leading with MIL in tow, by the sounds of it) has latched onto. It's obvious from your posts that you're not the one making a class divide/assumptions.

It sounds as though your FIL has never been impressed with your DH and the class tag and all that he feels goes with it is an easy way for him to compartmentalise everything about his sons life that he doesn't agree with/understand.

I agree with the posters that say you should feel lucky that there is a widening gulf. It's a shame that their relationship with their son (and you and future GC) isn't better, but it sounds as though the problem is entirely their making and therefore only fixable by them.

Hide their comments in FB, pass the phone politely onto DH straight away whenever they get in touch and say supportive, positive but not inflammatory things to DH whenever this subject comes up. It's crap for you but must be worse for him. Focus on the good stuff you have, especially when the baby arrives.

Good luck and enjoy the rest of your pregnancy!